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Old 04-24-2009, 12:56 PM   #61
KManXC
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Originally Posted by Reyngel View Post
Billy Corgan. Billy - Corgan. Mr. Smashing Pumpkins.

Soak this in. Read every word.

If you're on your Blackberry right now, navigate elsewhere. Wait until you have a free moment. Wait until you're without distraction.

Because the following? The following is very important for you to know.

Ready?

Let's do this.

Billy, I'm not attempt to tell you things you've heard a million times before. I'm not going to tell you about how Siamese Dream changed my life, or that I actually loved Adore. I'm not going to wish you insincere blessings of grace, peace and positivity. I'm not going to tell you that I bought your book, or that I think Zeitgeist is the best work you've ever produced.

And I'm not going to tell you that I support everything you're doing right now.

Because I don't.

And many others don't, either.

Look, . I've told you for years and years that I like you. That I like your . That I like your artistry. I may not have had long, intimate, one-on-one conversations with you about it, but I've told you. I've let my money and my time speak volumes. Albums. Singles. Boxsets. Books. DVDs. Concert tickets. Plane tickets. Time off from work to travel. Time off from work to wait in line all night. I've bought it all. It's my way of telling you that I supported you. That I appreciated your work. And the times I've actually met you, I've used actual words to express my gratitude.

I stuck with you through the good. I stuck with you through the bad. For a long time, even in the darkest hours of The Smashing Pumpkins, I found hope through your sincerity and perseverance.

So what happened?

Why don't I support you anymore?

Why don't we support you anymore?

The fact is, Billy Corgan, you've crossed the line. You are no longer believed to be someone or something that a lot of fans desire to trust.

You're sitting there right now, nodding your head, feeling like you've heard this shit before. You're sitting there, thinking to yourself how not-in-tune with you and your career I am. You think I'm just another disgruntled, hateful "fan" who likes to be negative just for the sake of being negative. That I'm not a real fan. That you don't want me to support you. That you're in a "better" place now, and that you don't want to surround yourself with people like me.

And you'd be wrong to think all of that.

Because the fact is, I know EXACTLY why the support, the love and the appreciation has died.

The truth is, Billy Corgan, you fucked up one too many times.

Here's your track record since 2000:

-You formed Zwan. With Jimmy. Fans asked you why it was called Zwan, and not The Smashing Pumpkins. Fans asked you how it could be a different band when it had you, the singer and song-writer of The Smashing Pumpkins, and Jimmy, the band's unmistakable and irreplaceable drummer. Fans came to your shows. Fans bought the album. Fans would desire to hear Pumpkins , and you'd roll your eyes. Fans would claim that you and Jimmy were basically the two most important members of The Smashing Pumpkins, and that it was only natural for them to want to hear the that originally sparked their interest. You'd yell at them. You'd bitch. You'd alienate. Fans would be simply that: fans. And you'd forget that that comes with a natural desire to yearn for what turns them on. You'd blame them. Fans would claim that the dynamic of the "new" band was insincere. Fake. Artificial. And you'd throw it back in their faces, saying that they didn't truly understand. The end result? Zwan WAS fake. Zwan WAS insincere. The new members were doing drugs, getting high, fucking each other and spending your money without giving two shits about Honestly. You ended up loathing them like we did. But did you ever apologize to us for being hypocritical? For eventually seeing what we saw in the very beginning? Never.

-You wrote a book of poetry. You arranged for intimate meetings with you at coffee shops, bars and book stores. Fans bought your book. Fans bought tickets to your poetry readings. Fans gathered to . You'd have question/answer sessions. And when people would ask about The Smashing Pumpkins, you'd scoff. You'd get sarcastic. You'd roll your eyes. You'd alienate. For every person at each of those intimate meetings, you were their hero. Not because of a poetry book, but because of The Smashing Pumpkins. You knew very well that people didn't suddenly get turned on to you because of Blinking with Fists. You knew, just like any logical person, that your huge crowds were based solely off of your name from the Pumpkins. And yet you scolded people for still being fans of the past. It was the equivalent of Michael Jordan having a question and answer session regarding business management, and scolding anyone who asked anything about basketball. It'd be absolutely ludicrous. And that's exactly how your fans saw you. As an asshole.

-You released an online autobiography. Fans came to know more and more intimate details of your life. Nothing wrong with that, don't get me wrong.

-...but then you released your solo album. It was truly unique and distinct. The problem? You soured it by simultaneously announcing the reformation of the The Smashing Pumpkins on the eve of TheFutureEmbrace's release. Fans saw it as a cheap publicity stunt. And yet there they were, at your shows. Supporting you like always. And if a fan would yell out for a Pumpkins song in the middle of your set? Eye-rolling. Alienating. Scolding. It became a trend, actually. Fans would wonder, "Is Billy going to scold us tonight for still being active fans of The Smashing Pumpkins? You'd yell about how fans didn't care to support his desire to do something different. And yet, all along, your full-page newspaper ad in the Tribune talked long and hard about how exciting it was for the future of the Pumpkins. How what you really wanted was your old band back. Your old songs back. But if a fan should agree with you? You'd yell about how they weren't true fans, but rather living in the past.

-The Smashing Pumpkins return. Resurrected. While most fans are excited, a few fans become upset about how cheap it was to watch the Pumpkins be announced as a revival not five years after the final show at the Metro. Fans wonder about the band's credibility and integrity. Regardless, anticipation stirs. Fans buy the album. Fans buy tickets to shows. Multiple shows. Some fans even travel from other countries, just to show their support. Fans also have questions. Fans want to know what became of James and D'arcy. Fans are met with ambiguity and turned backs. And when you refuse to explain, in honest detail, why it's just you and Jimmy, fans become frustrated. Any logical person would be able to understand that it's only natural for a fan to hear of a band's comeback and desire to have just that: a comeback. A revival of music, a revival of image, a revival of what once was. You stated you wanted your old band back. And yet, when fans made it known that they wanted the old band back, like you had seemingly stated yourself, you rolled your eyes. Alienated them. Scolded them. Yelled at them about how they were stuck in the past, and that the future was you and Jimmy. That "The Smashing Pumpkins" all along was really just you and Jimmy anyway, even if you scolded fans a few years before for assuming that "Billy + Jimmy = Pumpkins" when you were messing around with Zwan.

-You decide to have multiple releases of Zeitgeist. Each one's at a different store, with one exclusive song on each copy. If a fan wants to be a fan, if a fan wants to own those extra songs, that fan would have to buy seven or eight copies of the same album. Yellow. Red. Green. . It was a marketing ploy used by shallow pop artists for years, and now you, Billy Corgan, were doing it. Bleeding the wallets of fans. Fans go ahead and buy the multiple copies. They continue to support you. And then, after everyone wasted their money on your redundant product, you released the "limited edition" Zeigeist, which included all of the bonus songs, plus a photo album. Fans went ahead and purchased that, too. In the end, many fans paid upwards of $100 for Zeigeist, when all they really should have paid was $15 for the special edition that was strategically released late for profit's sake. Fans feel cheated. Scammed.


-You embark on a tour. You play a mix of old classics and current catalog titles. Nothing wrong with that. Fans, for the most part, enjoy it.

-...but then you announce a 20th Anniversary Tour. You hype it up, explaining that it was a celebration of the last 20 years of The Smashing Pumpkins. You claim that it would be a special, unique experience, divided into two nights, each specifically titled, as well as a very special one-night show with a "completely different setlist." You claim that it would be something entirely different from what was previously on tour. You claim that you planned to dig deep, very deep into the Pumpkins' back catalog for the creation of the setlists. Fans drop everything. They save up. They empty their wallets. Concert tickets. Plane tickets. Everyone's on board. And then you play the first show. It's filled with the same songs and the same arrangements from the previous Fall tour, accompanied with very obscure jams and cover songs. Fans are confused. Fans are upset. The classics... the songs that would be unforgivable not to play at a 20-year anniversary show... are absent. Then you play the first two-night show. All of the "special, unique" songs are duplicated from the one-off show, just rearranged. Fans are upset about being misled. Everyone expected a traditional anniversary experience, with nostalgia and memories of the songs that made the Pumpkins great, plus new material. But that was only mostly true of the latter. And when fans complained, you rolled your eyes. You alienated them. Scolded them. Told them that they should fuck off. You actually went as far as to say that if fans wanted to hear old songs, you didn't want them as fans anymore. You said all of this... during an anniversary tour! Of all times to bitch about fans wanting to be nostalgic, you do it during a tour that's billed as a "celebration of the last 20 years." Any logical person would have understood a "20th anniversary tour" to incorporate classic songs of the last 20 years. But you blame the fans for thinking this way without any evidence to support why we shouldn't have expected what you so clearly despised. The fans. You blame the fans. You actually blame them for being fans. You blame them for loving your past work. You assume, blindly, that the fans have no desire to support the present or the future, when that has never been the case. You never once explained to fans that the "20th anniversary tour" would be something that was so against the history the past 20 years. You billed it completely different than what was presented. And fans paid for it. Monetarily, and emotionally. Fans paid. Big time. Because after all the tickets were sold, after all the VIP packages were paid for, you then release a statement to everyone explaining that the tour was entirely different than what everyone expected it would be. You actually had the audacity to release a statement, after people had spent all of their hundreds if not thousands of dollars on tickets, that "clarified" the exact opposite of how the tour was originally billed and how the tour was expected to be. Why would you feel the need to release such a statement if you didn't think that everyone was incorrectly perceiving the tour? The answer is that everyone did, in fact, perceive it incorrectly. Everyone. There wasn't a person on the planet who expected what you ended up providing. Everyone, from state to state, message board to message board, saw the 20th anniversary tour to mean that it would be a nostalgic celebration of the past. And when they came for that, you scolded them. Repeatedly. You scolded fans at almost every show on the tour. And because of that, fans rightfully became enraged.

Negativity spread. You generated a virtual, verbal fight. You not only killed their excitement, but you took their money doing it. If you didn't want fans to expect nostalgia, you shouldn't have billed it that way originally. You shouldn't have had to"clarify" things after tickets were sold. You should have made all of that known beforehand. And, at the very least, you should have apologized to fans for misleading them. Every fan, every news source, every everything saw you as misleading. But you? You, in your mind, were in the right. And we? The other 99% of the equation? Were somehow wrong. You then disowned most of your fanbase. You told fans that if they wanted to hear the "hits," then we should fuck off. You didn't want us as fans anymore. You only want fans who want to solely embrace the future. You threatened to never play an old song in concert again. You incorrectly assumed that fans only wanted the singles, and tried to scold us, yelling about how the setlists had all the radio singles, and that we were just hopelessly displeased and unsatisfied and ungrateful with everything. Perpetually negative. Perpetually ignorant. But the truth is, it's you who are perpetually ignorant. Fans were never complaining that you didn't play Today, or Bullet, or any of the other radio singles that you've played at every show for the last 20 years. Fans were upset that you didn't play the songs that fans actually cared about over the last 20 years. Songs that were special. You tried to justify this by saying that every fan has their own, different list of favorite songs they want to hear. But that's such a cop-out, and everyone knows it. You know very well what songs are the fan-favorites. Songs like Thru the Eyes of Ruby, Geek USA, Porcelina, Silverfuck, etc... songs that you've had absolutely no problem identifying as fan favorites in the past. All of a sudden you think the fan-favorites are Bullet with Butterfly Wings and Zero? Those might have been the songs that made you the most amount of money due to them being singles, but they're certainly not the lyrical, definitively-sonic examples of what has led fans to fall in love with you and The Smashing Pumpkins. You can't conveniently claim that just because you threw in the radio singles, everyone should stop bitching about the shows not being a true, clear representation of an anniversary tour, especially when the songs that most fans really don't care about are flanked by long, very long cover songs and drawn-out kazoo medleys. It was a huge slap in the face to fans. Even the people who sincerely liked the shows claimed that it was ridiculous for it to be called a "20th anniversary tour." And yet you were relentless about blaming us, the fans, for misunderstanding.


-You sell Today to be used in a Visa commercial. You sell the one song that embodies, as you've admitted, the most brittle, most fragile point of your entire life, to a credit card company. You spend many years claiming that you would never sell-out your music to commercials because you respected the integrity of your song writing, and you didn't want the masses interpreting your life's most emotional moments as commercial punchlines. And then you take a song about your desire to not kill yourself and have it be the new soundtrack to commercialism. I, and most others, were absolutely floored by this. For many, this was the final straw on a back already burdened with much weight. We gritted our teeth with Guitar Hero. We winced at hearing Doomsday Clock in Transformers. But Today, in a Visa commercial? Today was a song that many people had previously shared your original emotion with. People who had suicidal thoughts once upon a time found Siamese Dream, and it got them through it. You've acknowledged this and respected this many times in the past. And now? It's now just a shallow piece of shit that sells credit cards. Just terrible.

-And now. Now, Billy Corgan, you're continuing to destroy your good name, and whatever's left of "The Smashing Pumpkins." You propose a business model. A very expensive business model. You propose it because you want to see what people think. And when you get feedback that's negative, you throw an actual fit. You revert to the mentality of a kid in kindergarten who wants to take the ball home and not let anyone else play, just because they don't like his hat. You claim that even though you are planning to record the studio sessions anyway, you're not going to let us see them because we all hate the idea you had. What are you planning on doing with that filmed studio footage? You come off like a prick, like you're just telling us that to make us feel bad. Incredibly immature, Billy. Look. You wanted to know our opinion of your business model. We told you. And when you didn't like it, you took it all away like an abusive parent, taunting a misbehaving kid with dessert. Here's the thing, man... you just don't get it. Time and time again, you just don't get it. We're not unhappy because we think you're greedy(although the Visa commercial surely adds fuel to that fire). We're unhappy with the model because it's asking us to, over the course of many years, pay for features that most artists, many of whom are your , provide their fans for free. Not only that, but you're asking us to pay for things that don't exist yet. You're asking us to pay for ambiguous things that you promise will surface. That request might have been an honorable one had you had even the slightest bit of positive consistency regarding your track record of making promises. But you've failed at delivering countless times. It's very, very hard to trust you when you say something will happen, Billy. And now you're asking fans to trust you, again. But this time, you're asking fans to use their wallets, in addition to their sincere interest. You have no right to scold us for being skeptical, cynical and bitter in a situation like that, especially in the economic climate we're currently in. And you also have no right to have the audacity to claim that $40, or $20, or which ever amount of money you see this idea costing is an affordable amount. How dare you presume what is and isn't affordable to people who aren't even close to your tax bracket. Besides, it's not just $40, or $20. You're asking for those amounts in repeated increments. So if we want the finished product, we have to pay a $300-400 when it's all said and done. All that... for something we don't know will ever exist, save for your word. Your word... something that you've betrayed over and over again over the years. And then you, once again, roll your eyes at us. Scold us. Alienate us. Trust is something you earn, Billy Corgan. It's not something you're given blindly.

Look. Your career, music and accomplishments have meant a lot to me over the years. I mean that. And it's all meant a lot to everyone else, too. Which is why the way you're handling the people who have supported you for two decades is so shameful lately. I mean honestly? How dare you? How dare you blame the people who have supported your artistry over the years for your failures? You were more than willing to accept the praise you received for your success over the years. You were more than willing to proclaim that the public, your fans, were in tune with your artistry when everything was successful. But now that you've fallen, it's suddenly our fault? We're to blame? OUR judgment is the judgment that's flawed? If that's the case, then you've never really had fans. No one's ever truly embraced or loved your work. If our perception of what's "good" is flawed, then it's universally flawed, and everything we've ever thought about your career, past, present and future, is totally irrelevant. And if that's the case, you should really just shut the fuck up and stop complaining about something that doesn't even matter.


Or.

Our opinions do matter. A lot. And you should stop bitching whenever we disagree with you and your "models." You should go back to trying to make good music. If you fail, you fail. But don't blame us.

Don't be a coward about it.

If you don't want to have the relationship of artist to fans anymore, then peace out. Stop being in the public eye. Stop making albums, or films, or books, or any other kind of product that requires an involvement by fans. Make music for yourself, your family and your friends. Otherwise, shut the fuck up already with the blame-game and the eye-rolling and get back to what matters most: the music.

That's it.
Well written. All true.

 
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Old 04-24-2009, 02:38 PM   #62
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Thanks for quoting the whole thing!

 
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Old 04-24-2009, 03:51 PM   #63
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agreed with the original post
while I don't feel quite as backstabbed, I feel that Billy's recent behavior doesn't just expose who he is now but who he always was.
just another corporate rock star.
it's sad, really.

I've moved on. so should we all.
there is a lot more music out there by people who haven't proved themselves to be insincere swines (yet).
these people aren't a decade beyond their creative peaks.
and it's all widely available. they would beg you to download it and listen.

goodbye Billy, hello the rest of music.

 
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Old 04-24-2009, 05:03 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topleybird View Post
Thanks for quoting the whole thing!
You got it! As if I knew how to just pick part of it to quote...

 
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Old 04-24-2009, 05:35 PM   #65
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it's called highlighting and deleting

 
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Old 04-24-2009, 05:38 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D. View Post
who actually gives that much of a shit what billy does on his off time?
do you know how low-down and skanktastic tila tequila is

 
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Old 04-24-2009, 05:52 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
it's called highlighting and deleting
It's called 'work' and since I do enough work at my actual work, I must therefore inform you that my daily Hatephoria cannot entail any additional work.

But your instruction was super helpful.

 
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Old 04-24-2009, 08:00 PM   #68
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It's cool, KMan. I shout everything I say in a flat monotone because I can't be bothered to work at modulating my voice to express meaning. Fuck that, man, I'm tired! If you find my method of communication irksome or hard to understand, it's like, whatever, am I right? Who cares if anyone understands or listens to what I'm trying to tell them. It's not about exchanging ideas, here. I exchange enough ideas at work, you know what I'm saying? Wait, I don't care if you know what I'm saying. Doot deet doot deet doo!

 
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Old 04-24-2009, 08:09 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KManXC View Post
It's called 'work' and since I do enough work at my actual work, I must therefore inform you that my daily Hatephoria cannot entail any additional work.

But your instruction was super helpful.
seriously highlighting stuff with your mouse is work for you?

here's another question: have you ever had a job that actually entails real work? Or have you always been a desk jockey with no idea what work actually is.

 
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:48 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream View Post
i don't know. i had to stop reading before the end. i didn't agree with everything i read so far.
same

 
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:19 AM   #71
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you know i hate to, but i have to agree with this guy, i mean i love the pumpkins and try just to be into the music and not all the accompanying bullshit, but billy please man, we work at video stores and coffee houses, we can barley aford a $15 cd, and lets face it you can drink milkshakes made of hundred dollar bills every hour of every day for the rest of your life. think about the fans that have stuck by you through 20 years of bullshit, and not your unicorn hide wallet .

 
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:30 AM   #72
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i think you guys are really overestimating billy's wealth

he hasn't really done anything that sold tremendously well for over 10 years and he's been spending his MCIS money on pieces of the gold coast. I mean it runs out eventually. A lot of famous former professional athletes turn into normal dudes that live in normal houses because they blew all that loot on nothing. I mean just try and fathom all the money Billy has spent on gutars, amps, pianos, violins, mics, sound boards, production equipment, drumsets, etc over the past decade.

I really don't think this is about having fucktons of money since he already sits on a throne of gold with ample concubines rubbing his legs but he wants a olympic sized pool filled with crystal. I really think he's starting to feel a pinch and has to do something to increase his income or lose all the creature comforts he's become accustomed to. He's not Michael Dell here, dudes.

Last edited by Trotskilicious : 04-25-2009 at 01:37 AM.

 
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:45 AM   #73
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That's a great post and I agree with it 100%. I really ignored a lot of the shit like commercials, whatever. I don't care what the man does to make money as long as his music is still great. But I haven't truly loved anything the man has done since the band broke up in 2000. A lot of the songwriting sounds like a different person, and the production and tons of layering on the vocals make him sound robotic and there's an overall lack of feeling that we've all come to love with his vocals on the first four or five records especially. I was really looking forward to the Pumpkins being back - even if James wasn't a part of it, I was on board. The live performances were great...but Zeitgeist didn't deliver. Then after the initial reunion touring, Billy fucked up even the live performances by being a primadonna and pretending that the songs that made everyone a fan of the band weren't worth playing anymore. I honestly have zero interest in the name The Smashing Pumpkins - I haven't truly loved studio material from Billy in almost decade, and now that the live shows aren't going to have any of the great genious songs we've come to love, I have no reason to support this band. And add in the fact that Jimmy is now gone (Jimmy was the saving grace on a couple of Zeitgeist songs and the live shows)...SP is over. It's a joke.

 
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:56 AM   #74
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whenever topleybird posts, my face begins to resemble that of the cat in his avatar.

 
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Old 04-25-2009, 07:12 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMBKG View Post
goodbye Billy, hello the rest of music.
lol

 
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Old 04-25-2009, 07:55 AM   #76
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mmm. that post came off as a bit whiny bitch if I can be honest. Not only that, it was all negative. There was a LOT of greatness that came from Zwan. Same with TFE. and the book tour. I still have the bootleg of the Chicago songs. I liked the zeitgeist tour-- some of the tightest sp performances to date. And I downloaded the extra Z. tracks on the internets. Who was so stupid to buy the album 5 times and then blame Billy for your own stupidity? That is laughable. You take the good and live your life. Too many people absolutely heartbroken over the personal decisions of a man they don't know.

 
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:10 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topleybird View Post
Doot deet doot deet doo!
http://forums.netphoria.org/customav...atar8118_1.gif

 
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:26 AM   #78
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:31 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commando View Post
mmm. that post came off as a bit whiny bitch if I can be honest. Not only that, it was all negative. There was a LOT of greatness that came from Zwan. Same with TFE. and the book tour. I still have the bootleg of the Chicago songs. I liked the zeitgeist tour-- some of the tightest sp performances to date. And I downloaded the extra Z. tracks on the internets. Who was so stupid to buy the album 5 times and then blame Billy for your own stupidity? That is laughable. You take the good and live your life. Too many people absolutely heartbroken over the personal decisions of a man they don't know.
Stop being a Billy apologist.

 
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:36 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by D. View Post
who are you, again?

yeah, go away.
lol

don't get your little white panties all twisted up.

 
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:12 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Andrew_Pakula View Post
Stop being a Billy apologist.
I guess I'm not obsessed with Billy's weiner enough to be seriously pissed off at the guy for the way he's conducted his business. Seriously it boils down to having a life.

 
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Old 04-25-2009, 08:37 PM   #82
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I'm not sure you were around in 2001/2002, but I think if you were there, at one of those early shows especially, you would not even think about calling Zwan 'fake'. Billy was all in at this point, and, in my opinion, was presenting some of the best songs he's written this decade. Those live shows were amazing, the intensity and level of commitment I believe was commendable. At that point, I was very glad Billy had left the Pumpkins, because it put him in a situation where he could re-energize and recommit. Zwan was a necessary step.

Too many people think only 'Mary Star of the Sea' when they think Zwan, neglecting the real worth of the band.

Just sayin.

 
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Old 04-25-2009, 11:04 PM   #83
mellon_c0llie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Everlasting Radio View Post
Too many people think only 'Mary Star of the Sea' when they think Zwan, neglecting the real worth of the band.

Just sayin.
That's because it's the only thing released by zwan. I can't hold on to the memories of a show that I never attended or the bootlegged recording. Those fleeting moments are not greatness.

 
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Old 04-25-2009, 11:11 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commando View Post
I guess I'm not obsessed with Billy's weiner enough to be seriously pissed off at the guy for the way he's conducted his business. Seriously it boils down to having a life.
yea! people with lives dont have opinions! im better than you!

 
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Old 04-25-2009, 11:34 PM   #85
Rairun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mellon_c0llie View Post
That's because it's the only thing released by zwan. I can't hold on to the memories of a show that I never attended or the bootlegged recording. Those fleeting moments are not greatness.
I never saw Zwan live, but that band means as much as SP1 to me. I still remember downloading the first show (a few songs the night of the show, and the rest the day after). It was great.

 
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Old 04-25-2009, 11:46 PM   #86
commando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnibos View Post
yea! people with lives dont have opinions! im better than you!
Well they might display a bit of perspective and reason when expressing their critiques and not sound like a person in crisis.

 
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Old 04-26-2009, 12:17 AM   #87
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Also, I don't think the original post was that good. I disagree with a lot of his points.

Zwan were great, and it was understandable that he put his back catalogue aside at the time. The other members were actually part of the band, not hired guns. They wanted to play songs they worked on together.

I don't care about the visa commercial. Sure, Billy sounds like a hypocrite, but I don't believe in selling-out that way.

I don't care about all the Zeitgest versions because I didn't pay for it.

Basically, I think the OP focused too much on the wrong side of Billy's stupidity. I was first disappointed with him when Mary Star of the Sea came out, but I didn't pay it any mind because I thought there were great things to come. The Zwan break-up was disappointing, but it would have also been okay, if only he kept his trap shut and refrained from calling everyone else immoral. The blue blog was just a disgrace: dissing James and D'arcy, and spreading Sonia Choquette's words of light. That was when I stopped respecting him.

Releasing a horrible poetry book didn't help either. The Chicago Songs had better writing than any of those poems, but he chose to release TheFutureEmbrace instead. It wasn't a bad album, but I still hoped he could do much better. Then he announced the SP reunion. I was already extremely skeptical at that point, but once the Zeitgeist pictures were leaked, I knew it was a terrible idea. It was such a terrible concept. One of the reasons why I didn't buy Zeitgeist was that I'd be embarrassed to have the artwork in my house. Oh, and it didn't help that Billy wanted those kids arrested because of the pictures. What an asshole.

It turned out that Zeitgeist was worse than I imagined possible. Superchrist was mediocre, and GLOW and FOL were terrible. Also, at my very first Pumpkins show, Billy walked off and left half of the setlist unplayed.

Anyway, I do love Stellar and some of the residency songs (some of which aren't on IAGW). I just think he should never have revived the Pumpkins. It would be good if he made music as a solo artist and played whatever songs he felt like playing. Only new ones, only old ones, whatever. If people--including me--didn't like the music, that would be okay. He should just quit whining about it.

This list is by no means comprehensive. He has done many more terrible things. I just think the OP didn't focus on the worst ones.

Last edited by Rairun : 04-26-2009 at 12:26 AM.

 
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Old 04-26-2009, 03:39 AM   #88
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Zwan did have some cool stuff - but Billy didn't deem the good songs worth of releasing. Go figure. He performs the good songs live with Zwan and ignores the good songs live with the Pumpkins.

 
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:13 PM   #89
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I don't think Billy reads the boards because you have to log-in to read the SP O-board and people would know if he's on in a second. He wouldn't go on Netphoria probably because he got a virus from it and had to pay some tech support guy 100 bucks to run Norton Anti-Vrisu, AdAware and install Firefox / Adblock or what have you.

He skims the entries on the frontpage of the site and decides based on that. So go post it there.

 
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Old 04-26-2009, 10:16 PM   #90
Voice Implodes
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that post was epic and thank you for saying what so many of us have been thinking for awhile.

i have been a fan since 1993. yes, i am one of those for whom "siamese dream changed my life," and inspired me to learn the guitar. and now 16 years later that is the career path i ma currently on. i defended for the blunders to friends over the years, but it has been becoming to much. its just not the same anymore. and this is coming from somebody who loved zeitgeist too. raved about their live show. but this shift within the last year is starting to taint all of the past for me. starting with american gothic, and moving into if all goes wrong and these recent endeavors such as the subscription. watching the dvd and really realizing that my all time musical idol is probably somebody i would have no interest in meeting anymore, because it seems pretty obvious to me that after that my opinion of him wold never go back.

that was very well written. mad rep.

 
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