Israel-Palestine Conflict Thread

[john's ego]

Israel's continued existence relies on the suffering of Arabs in Palestine, so no it should not exist.

[john's ego]

Way to assume my pronouns too

[john's ego]

I brought up birthright because that whole thing kind of encapsulates the insanity of Zionist westerners, right up to the name. It implies that jews have the right to exist on land they havent touched in generations while gazans are denied the right to exist at all.

Because when you're talking about "israels right to exist" you're talking about a fascist ethnostate whose existence relies on the suffering of these people. Israel cannot exist without making these people suffer. So no, I don't believe it should exist.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Zionism is simply the acknowledgment that Israel has a right to exist. That's all. That's not fascism.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by john's ego

Because when you're talking about "israels right to exist" you're talking about a fascist ethnostate .

Have you any idea what Hamas, Hezbollah, and the regimes backing them are about?


Oh wait, you do.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by john's ego

Way to assume my pronouns too

you have an avatar with the masculine name John in it, you Chud POS

[ilikeplanets]

Exactly. Are you trying to prove something about me with that? I'm happy to honor whatever pronoun you prefer, and it won't change my opinion about you at all.

[TuralyonW3]

Originally Posted by MyOneAndOnly

Zionism is simply the acknowledgment that Israel has a right to exist. That's all. That's not fascism.

It’s a little more subtle than that and I think you know it. One can support the idea of Jews self-determining, living in safety and prosperity in their own state or otherwise, BUT have fundamental issues with the specific bumbling way Israel was built up from the 1917 Balfour declaration, to the bloody wars of the 1940s, and the way the country has conducted itself ever since (Apartheid state against Palestinians). The idea of a safe home for Jews isn’t bad, but Israel *as they have conducted themselves* is highly flawed (just like any other number of countries—for instance, I don’t have some deep feeling that America, or my State of Texas, has a fundamental right to exist; we were just a power grab from Native Americans and other European settler nations).

You are correct that Zionism doesn’t equal facism, but also anti-Zionism doesn’t equal antisemitism

[TuralyonW3]

Furthermore, much of Zionism is rooted in Old Testament shit about “the promised land” and “gods chosen people” and all that, and no religious dogma should be considered when founding a state on top of other people (just like Americas “manifest destiny” was made up bullshit).

Not so fun fact: some evangelicals think Israel is biblical prophecy for end times. Israel is formed, Jesus comes to kill all the Jews (and any other non Christians) and then rule for a thousand years of peace before they all go to heaven. (Evangelicals are morons)

Islamic terrorists who praise Allah after attacks, also moronic (though much terrorism gets blamed on Islamic ideas and “they hate our freedom” claptrap which is reductionism)

[TuralyonW3]

Fwiw I do think it’s moronic this univeristy president said calls for genocide against Jews were “context-dependent” over whether they violated student policy (extremist Palestinian support groups on campus). It’s very easy to protest Israel’s state actions without calling for genocide of Jews.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/rcna128712

[ovary]

pbs just said israel is using an AI target identification platform called "the gospel"

[ovary]

can anyone who knows anything about israel's political system explain why/how bibi is still in power when he is so widely despised and obviously responsible for this?

[Plasticine Rap Star]

Good question. Didn't he basically sell himself as Mr. Security, the only one who could truly keep Israeli citizens safe?

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by john's ego

However Hamas's existence is almost entirely driven by blowback from Israel's actions.

There is a lot of wiggle room in "almost entirely" there.

Also I assume you are unaware of the combative actions of Palestine's Arabs, somewhat specifically the Palestinian civil war in 1947, which resulted in what you're probably referring to as "actions by Israel," like defending themselves against Palestine, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, and Syria.

But to take things further, Palestinian Arabs' aggression against Palestinian Jews was already occurring prior to the existence of Israel - before the Israeli Declaration of Independence was even signed in 1948.

So Hamas is basically a Palestinian cancer that has always been there, which is due to the tension between Jews and Arabs that predates Israel's existence.

[duovamp]

Also you can't blame Israel for Farfour the mouse.

[ovary]

Originally Posted by ovary

so what happens if israel does a genocide rn

so the answer is just "pay for it" i guess? for us in the US anyway. how upsetting. also i feel like i can't even fuckin' talk about it anywhere let alone do anything about it. blagh.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by ovary

can anyone who knows anything about israel's political system explain why/how bibi is still in power when he is so widely despised and obviously responsible for this?

The Knesset has 120 seats. Bibi is in charge because his party had the most votes in the last election. Likud holds 32 seats, which means Bibi gets to assemble and lead a coalition government.

If an election were held today, based on polling i saw last week, Likud would only win 15 or 17 seats. The National Unity Party and Yesh Atid (both moderate Liberal Parties) would probably lead a new election, and combined would likely have enough votes to form a government without any of the right wingers currently on Bibi's cabinet.

Likud's control of the government is partly because of the collapse of the centrist Labor party, which was the largest in Parliament until after the assassination of of Yitzhak Rabin.

Part of Netanyahu's schtick is to maintain constant tensions with groups like Hezbolah and Hamas, so he can justify to the public his use of violence in Gaza, and use of the military to "protect" settlers in the West Bank.

Since 2022 Likud's support has dwindled. There were massive daily protests in the cities against Likuid throughout 2023, which only subsided becasue of the attacks on 10/7. Bibi can't even speak in public today without being shouted down and booed. He is HATED by most Israelis now, and especially by familes of hostages trapped in Gaza.

[MyOneAndOnly]

In the past the Israeli public tended to shift to the right after big attacks by Hamas, Nezbollah, PLO, etc. After so many years of this under Likud, it isn't working anymore.

[duovamp]

This is why proportional representation also sucks. Coalition governments are pretty broken. But they're the most broken in super polarized environments because the fringe parties become necessary partners for basic things, which ends up over-valuing the fringe groups.

[duovamp]

Everyone hates everyone else, and everything is broken with every system though!

[ovary]

democracy is the worst system of government except for all the other ones as they say

so if bibi is so hated rn why are they not "calling an election" or whatever the fuck it is they do to get a new government?

[ovary]

didn't they just call a new election like five times in the last four years?

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by ovary

democracy is the worst system of government except for all the other ones as they say

so if bibi is so hated rn why are they not "calling an election" or whatever the fuck it is they do to get a new government?

here is a link to a website where you can look that up


www.AllIsraelQuestionsAnswered.com

[MyOneAndOnly]

"how does parliamentary government work and how can a minority party hyjack a government?"

[ovary]

i already fucking googled it and i can't find the answer. i guess i'll die ignorant

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by ovary

i already fucking googled it and i can't find the answer. i guess i'll die ignorant

Yes. You will.

[MyOneAndOnly]

That was like a Monte quote.

[MyOneAndOnly]

this article touches on how Populism has fueled the Likud government. Populism in Israel is rarely discussed in Western Media. But it's analogous to Populism in every other western country. Typically, western journalism focuses on condemning "Zionism" instead. In a broad sense Zionism is simply the belief that Israel has a right to exist. How and under what conditions Israel exists has changed throughout the years. Likud has used populism to fuel a perpetual war with Palestinian terror groups. And also to maintain their grip on power. Bibi is, like Trump, the only one who can stand up to Hezbollah and Hamas.


https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2...as-attack-2023

[ovary]

you're happy to discourse on any topic other than my question i see. i'm starting to think you may not know the answer. let the shoe piss on the other foot!

[MyOneAndOnly]

you can lead an idiot to Wikipedia but you can't make them read it