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Old 12-17-2021, 07:08 PM   #61
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bro you're comparing the way the audience of the strokes responded to the strokes at the time, with the way the audiences of taylor swift, lana del rey, and billie eilish respond to them today

 
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Old 12-18-2021, 12:37 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
i would agree, but zwan 2001 shows
yep. if 2001 zwan was what followed mcis instead of adore, it would have been absolutely fucking huge. everyone would have loved it. even if people had to wait 6 years in between.

i mean it pretty much was just a delayed continuation after tafh, with some of the gravity demos being used for zwan songs and all.

 
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Old 12-18-2021, 07:03 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
This is one of the best takes I’ve read on why rock “died” essentially. What’s your take on the current state of music where it seems like only people from wealthy families have any chance? Obviously having connections has always been a thing in the industry. But there were always rags to riches stories like Billy also. Now music seems to have trended to being something only the wealthy or offspring of celebrities can partake in.

It seemed to start with the Strokes. With the whole band being rich kids with powerful fathers. Of course now you have the likes of Taylor Swift, Lana, Billie Eilish etc who all come from wealthy and well connected families. It’s also interesting how Gen Z doesn’t question their roots or even care. Whereas Gen X would have ripped them to shreds for being privileged. It seems that talent alone is no longer enough to make it. Billy Corgan would never make it if he had come up in this musical climate.
kids of the rich (or of musicians) has always been in a thing. Off the top of my head in the 90's we had: wallflowers, wilson Philips, Jeff Buckley, Eagle-Eye and Nenah Cherry..
and I'm sure we had artists in the 70's that were also 'kids of older musicians'.
Michael Jackson had family pedgree in the buisness.

Any intelligent parent would (should) encourage their children to NOT persue a career in the arts (or sports) regardless of talent. The success rate is the worst. But if you're born in money, you can afford to take the risk (like any buisness venture is easier for someone with a safety net). I'm not making a jugement on a trend.

 
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Old 12-18-2021, 07:19 AM   #64
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The Billie Eilish "well connected family" is a bit of myth, imo. Her parents are minor league actors and her career took off on Myspace or YT.

Props to Jacob Dylan for a great career despite the hunting, cumbersome family name.

 
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Old 12-19-2021, 07:51 PM   #65
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It seems to be that In quite a few cases children who have parents who were singers and/or musicians, but not hugely successful or didn't live up to their potential, tend to do well.
They probably get taught all the most important parts of theory and playing and writing techniques and what to listen to early in their life so they build upon their parents knowledge and progress further.

 
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Old 12-19-2021, 07:54 PM   #66
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Corgan Sr. didn't support BC until after he was very successful. Yeah, he learned from him, but his father discouraged him from pursuing music his whole childhood, according to old BC blogs. I highly doubt he actually taught him any theory or writing techniques explicitly. Certainly it sounds like he exposed him to a wide range of music, but I think BC is being very generous in his RIP video. He may have inspired BC, but it wasn't on purpose.

Unless the old BC was lying, which is possible.

edit: oh, I thought we were in the other thread. yeah I agree about other artists

 
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Old 12-19-2021, 09:50 PM   #67
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He certainly used his studio equipment and learned about studio recording techniques and pedals etc.
Edit: didn't realise his Dad had died, my Dad died last year, it's not fun.

Last edited by CherryRay : 12-19-2021 at 09:57 PM.

 
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Old 12-20-2021, 03:13 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T&T View Post
many other bands have flown higher, and fallen faster.

Billy is still one of the very very lucky ones.

it's nearly impossible to sustain that level for an ongoing period.


he obviously has.
this is a basic (lame) measure of SP's success
https://www.billboard.com/artist/the-smashing-pumpkins/
and it's not much compared to BIGGER stars.
Radiohead has entered the chat...

 
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Old 12-22-2021, 06:29 AM   #69
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billie eilish? sick of her spoken word humming , always the same bored out music.

now she has problems with porn(stars) ...what a waste she is.


concerning pumpkins: this video footage of billy singing christmas shows once prooves his loss of lyrics, emotions, and singing.

he performs like an uninspired 70 year old dude who has no motivation at all.

i gonna listen to the new mcis3 song on youtube in 2024?

can anyone tell bill (Insta) that his singing style got even worse

 
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Old 12-22-2021, 11:32 AM   #70
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can anyone tell bill (Insta) that his singing style got even worse
ok, no problem.
you're welcome.

 
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Old 08-02-2022, 03:56 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T&T View Post
the market has changed.

IN 1996 the telecommunications act, which is good for a lot of things but loosens the restrictions on who can own how many stations fucked up everything. Clear Channel went on a buying spree, and this turns out to be Armageddon for rock radio. Suddenly one dude in Texas is programming nearly every alternative station in the country (or at least enough to dictate the tone for everyone else). Forget local scenesters bubbling up or weidos like with Ween and Presidents of the USA getting airplay - we got pop punk, rap rock, and boy bands on repeat. Music calcifies in 1999. You can even tell when it happens because Enema of the state topped the charts EVERYWHERE for ever.
And women dissapear from rock radio. completely. Lilith fair rans from 1997-1999 and puts out multiple double CD collections; by 2001 you'd think no woman but Gwen Stefani and Meg White ever touched an instrument. And entire burgeoning folk-rock ecosystem got snuffed out. Instead, we got Britney and Christina and the rest. which is FINE, and I don't hate pop punk either, and nu-metal... but that single TEXAN locus of musical control was NOT ok.

if you were a Gen Xer who went off to college, in a cocoon of college radio of 1996, coming back to mainstream radio in 2000 was like surveying an astroid aftermath.

Rock Music NEVER recovers. not really. sure we had a brief Stroke resurgence in 2001 thanks to the white stripes and the NYC scene, but it's nothing like before.

pleanty of stuff is wrong with the music right now. the incubation system and studio gatekeeping lables used to provide is gone. which is good because production/plubication has been democratized but it's also bad because no one is making any $$ and SOOO many songs just feel 75% finished

and pop and hiphops habits of using the SAME 10 producers for YEARS has glued those genres into stone. Please, i odn't want to hear another hi-hat triplet in my life ever again)

so when we feel like something went terribly wrong with the music industry, when we feel like the ideal era was 1991-94 (or 91-97), something DID go wrong.
as usual, the culprit was deregulation under capitalism
and as usual it's easier to point ant each other and say "you're doing it wrong, get over it" when the proper respons should be "damn, you guys got screwed, here's a hug, I wonder how else we are getting screwed".
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏


Oh and this thread should be archived

 
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Old 08-02-2022, 07:30 PM   #72
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oh my god you couldn't pay me enough to read that, let alone this whole thread ugh my tummy hurts

 
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Old 08-02-2022, 07:33 PM   #73
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you're not even a little intrigued by 3 pages of speculation & shit-talk about the rise & supposed "fall" of the MIGHTY SP???

 
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Old 08-02-2022, 07:33 PM   #74
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blocked, reported, & gagged

 
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Old 08-03-2022, 12:14 AM   #75
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I don't have any answer, other than to pick out just how high of a level he once was at. What he was doing shouldn't have been possible coming from just one person. But then from what I can tell, every musician who's ever flown so high has only had a relatively short time near the sun.

But if I was to guess, and I've mentioned this before, his bad taste caught up to him before his songwriting talent faded. Something about the '90s tamed him. But eventually, world weary and having accomplished everything he could have reasonably dreamed of, he became a different person, and songs with great potential always seemed to take a wrong turn. These days, I'm sure he's still a wealth of knowledge about songwriting, but I'm not sure there is much of a spark left, relative to the standard he himself set.

Interestingly, quite a number of years ago now, I made a comment, on this forum probably, that I'm sure he's still talented, but—does he have anything left to say, or does he just keep going because it's what he's always done. Very shortly thereafter, Billy was interviewed saying, and I'm paraphrasing, "I think I've still got something left to say." haha. Basically exactly the question I had posed. Probably just coincidence.

 
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Old 08-03-2022, 12:59 AM   #76
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Tha rise and fall of ya mom. How bout dat?

 
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Old 08-03-2022, 08:33 PM   #77
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hey billy what's up

 
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Old 08-04-2022, 05:40 AM   #78
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Yeah man it’s hard but I’m getting there. Was working on a new song today called Queen of the Meadow. It’s probably the best song I’ve ever written and it’s just sitting there, on a computer, someplace.

 
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