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Old 01-13-2022, 03:02 PM   #1
BurtSampson
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Default What was the hype for Adore like in late 1997?

https://archive.org/details/tsp1997-...-11-01t08.flac

https://archive.org/details/sp1997-10-19.ccm4.flac16

Just now realizing they were debuting Adore songs this early, and it's an interesting listen compared to the rest of the material they were touring on. Were people excited by these tracks coming out or was it when people maybe started to realize that Adore wouldn't be the techno album they were promised

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 04:15 PM   #2
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all i remember is Ava Adore was on alt radio nonstop. at least in Chicago.

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 04:18 PM   #3
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The hype was insane. They were flying airplane banners that said, "you will always be my whore."

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 04:47 PM   #4
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Oh yeah! Funny how I never put two and two together on those; at the time I thought it was a well-intentioned but creepy marriage proposal where the whore in question kept not looking up at the right time

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:11 PM   #5
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I do remember the biggest story on everyone's lips, around that time, was that Taylor Swift was now just seven years away from signing her first songwriting contract with a major label. Being able to open another door in the annual advent calendar was a pretty huge deal.

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:12 PM   #6
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The hype was insane. They were flying airplane banners that said, "you will always be my whore."
Lmao is it true or you just kidding? C’mon

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:40 PM   #7
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There was quite a bit of hype. After Kurt's suicide, SP was the biggest band in rock. Mellon Collie was a smash hit and they were on top of the world. I recall being a bit nervous about the album because Jimmy was gone and Billy was speaking in interviews about how the album was more personal and stripped-down with less guitars. Once Ava Adore hit the radio I think a lot of people were turned off. It was a decent song, but it wasn't the SP song people wanted, especially after MCIS.


There was a pretty strong backlash once the album released. I remember it was suddenly uncool to be an SP fan and I got a lot of crap from people about being a fan. Things like, "they suck now".

I personally didn't care much for the album when it came out. It took a few years to really grow on me. I think mainly because MCIS was so rocking and epic and Adore was very mellow and simple.

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 06:20 PM   #8
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Not a good answer to "what was the hype like," but I remember getting the impression for some reason, from some rumor, that the album was coming out on a certain date. Probably like months before it actually did. My local record store had a board listing all the albums coming out that month, and I kept checking and not seeing Adore on there. But I showed up on the rumored day and asked if it had come in, and the guy behind the counter was like, "Oh, no, but I hear it's coming out next month, and it's a double album, one disc electronic and one acoustic," and all these other bullshit-sounding details, and then he called over to another employee to find out what they'd heard. I didn't know whether he was fucking with me or if he'd actually heard any of this, but either way it sounded fake as hell, and I walked away. I still wonder.

I mean, yes, I had the internet by then, but you have to understand that there were like two sites that collected Pumpkins news at the time, and Netphoria was one of them.

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 06:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topleybird View Post
Not a good answer to "what was the hype like," but I remember getting the impression for some reason, from some rumor, that the album was coming out on a certain date. Probably like months before it actually did.
It probably had to do with the fact they actually toured Europe before the album was even out. Some schmo at your local store must have thought the album would be out by then. Case solved. You're welcome. You can move on with your life.

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 07:04 PM   #10
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That's a pretty crunchy setlist

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 10:25 PM   #11
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I remember it felt like Billy was almost trying to kill the hype in a way, not really but he kept saying how different it would be. Even before the shit with Jimmy happened he was saying their next album would be totally different.
When they first debuted Ava Adore (which was known as Eva Adora, fun fact), I'm 99% sure it was acoustic and it was just slightly before MP3s were widespread, so I got it on cassette.
When the songs were first debuted it was on KROQ I think, Ava Adore/To Sheila/Perfect, like it was some kind of leet leek even though I'm sure they had the OK from the label. Also, there was a behind the scenes Adore documentary that came out just before the album release on MTV.

Then I remember it getting some reviews about being boring ("abore" someone called it).

The tour was really great but they only played BWBW and either Stumbeline or Ruby from MCIS, which is not what most people wanted to hear.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 12:30 AM   #12
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i remember the Eva adore thing.... it's how billy pronounced it.
I also remember the talk of the double disk, one side acoustinc, one side electric. IIRC it was called Autumn Nocturn. no idea how that rumor started - probably billy's own mouth.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:17 AM   #13
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The tour was really great but they only played BWBW and either Stumbeline or Ruby from MCIS, which is not what most people wanted to hear.
Billy had already started butchering the band’s legacy by then.

Remember seeing them live, they played an awful version of BWBW using a 7-string guitar. And yeah it was all Adore, an unreleased album nobody knew nothing about. Who does that?

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 02:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T&T View Post
i remember the Eva adore thing.... it's how billy pronounced it.
I also remember the talk of the double disk, one side acoustinc, one side electric. IIRC it was called Autumn Nocturn. no idea how that rumor started - probably billy's own mouth.
I remember someone on IRC or AOL telling me the new album was going to be techno and then, after TEITBITE came out, really believing it would be. Meanwhile, my idea of techno was like Moby or Daft Punk and my pre-teen brain couldn't fuckin' believe it.

Ava Adore was such a weird choice as a single. Like the lyrics are obviously super abrasive and insulting to some extent (calling someone a whore) - especially back then. So here he's making this album which is much more quiet and contemplative and you have this song that is calling a woman a whore in the first two lines. It was really offputting to me. Like who plays that kind of shit for their friends? Was he trying to make it too cringe-y (from the forced/ironic misogyny) to be a hit? It feels like he thought he could fart on record for 70 minutes and it would be a hit so he pushed boundaries to dare the radio to still play it, which is great if you're doing it for an artistic reason, but I can't see how it was the case.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 03:16 AM   #15
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I'm not sure what a better single would have been, especially considering that single followed the likes of BWBW and Zero

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 03:18 AM   #16
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I know the obvious answer is Perfect, but I think Ava Adore has more radio flash. Perfect is okay as the B single, like Thirty Three. There really isn't a great (radio) song on Adore.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 04:44 AM   #17
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I've been on an Adore kick lately in both listening and piecing the era together so this thread comes at a good time for me.

I've been writing out some rambling thoughts:

1994: With Kurt dead rock music had lost its leader. Billy was positioned to his place but he would need to pull out something massive with the next album.

1995: SP come out MCIS late into the year. It instantly filled the hole grunge music had been missing. Spawning multiple angsty hit rock songs.

1996: SP is the biggest rock band in the world.

I remember Billy saying things around this time that the next record would pick up where 1979 left off. I am pretty sure this is in a Guitar World interview.

Then the Jimmy incident happens.

About a month later there is some hype for Billy's work on the Ransom soundtrack. I remember watching the movie and not really hearing anything SP sounding at the time.

1997: I finally get the Ransom Soundtrack and Billy's songs have some cool moments but feels a little aimless.

Lost Highway is getting hyped. Another month goes by and we get the track Eye in Feb which is a hit. I was personally heavily affected by this track. I was envisioning the next album being more in nature with this song. I though Billy had finally nailed that sort of techno through real instruments sound he was chasing during MCIS.

Summer comes with the hype of Batman and Robin. We eventually get single with The End Is the Beginning Is the End. It’s another major hit song and carries the same techno adjacent sound of Eye. I am hyped now more than ever for the future of the band.


It is weird how this late 96 through summer 97 era was more about film soundtrack hype. I remember feeling that they would be ok without Jimmy based on these two complete songs.

I do not remember the song Christmastime during this period for some reason.

This is the era of first having access to the internet for me. It's weird how my pre-teen obsession with SP and the rise of internet culture are so intertwined. Early Adore era is when the band started to be that obsession rather than liking the radio songs. It went from a cultural/social awareness to an obsession around this time.

Writing this out made me remember how we used to collect soundtracks and singles back in the day.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 04:50 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAWK View Post
There was a pretty strong backlash once the album released. I remember it was suddenly uncool to be an SP fan and I got a lot of crap from people about being a fan. Things like, "they suck now".
I remember this as well. I actually was bullied on the playground because of my Adore cassette haha. I was in the fifth grade at the time. Might have been the first time I was called "gay" as well.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 05:02 AM   #19
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I think part of what killed SP and Adores momentum was the change in mainstream musical direction. Billy was totally betting on rock music being dead after grunge died off.

It's sort of wild how SP really capitalized on a mainstream movement (grunge) and then were killed off by the next one (Numetal).

Korn, System of a Down, Orgy, Kid Rock, Manson's Mechanical Animals and Rob Zombie all released major albums that to Corgan's credit had a sense of that techno/industrial feel but went full bore rock. Corgan's bet had not been correct in thinking the next wave of mainstream music would be softer/acoustic.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 06:22 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
Ava Adore was such a weird choice as a single. Like the lyrics are obviously super abrasive and insulting to some extent (calling someone a whore) - especially back then. So here he's making this album which is much more quiet and contemplative and you have this song that is calling a woman a whore in the first two lines. It was really offputting to me
It's a pretty horrible lyric. I actually think it comes across a lot worse now, it's quite unpleasant

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 06:41 AM   #21
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“It's a pretty horrible lyric. I actually think it comes across a lot worse now, it's quite unpleasant”


 
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:51 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by T&T View Post
i remember the Eva adore thing.... it's how billy pronounced it.
I also remember the talk of the double disk, one side acoustinc, one side electric. IIRC it was called Autumn Nocturn. no idea how that rumor started - probably billy's own mouth.
Yes I remember that, there was also the "arcane night music" quote.

It was always going to be different. Jimmy leaving meant it was never going to be the same SP. As stated above, I remember the build with Eye and then TEITBITE, it sounded like the future of the band - fast electronica / techno still with guitars.

Then as news and quotes were coming out, Billy had to deny it was an "acoustic" record. So something different was brewing.

Ava Adore when you think about what was to come, wasn't really that different. It just had a breakbeat and less distorted guitars, but it still had that twin guitar solo. But it was hyped up to be this massive left turn.

When the album came out, I think it suffered a bit from 90's CD bloat - it was just too long. It could've lost a good 15 minutes and still been a perfectly good album. It took me a long time to get into it, even though on the surface I really liked the sound. I was getting out of being "into" rock / grunge at that time, and electronic music really was the wave of the future.

It's failure was a strange one however. Radiohead didn't suffer from that fate when Kid A came out. Maybe the world was just moving on from SP by 1998, even if they had released another rock album, it would've been classed as "more of the same". They really couldn't win either way.

Thankfully what we're left with is a beautiful record. I just got the double vinyl, and it's probably the truest SP album to stand up to the vinyl experience.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:54 AM   #23
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Most of u guys live in the past.....

What about the new sequel? Sick of waiting another 2 years

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 08:00 AM   #24
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Some actas if sp was the biggest band in 1998...

Come on....those interested in music toppled over sp on alt radio....but the rest has never heard of sp...

Ok, 2 great alternative album... But that was it...

Led zeppelin, beatles stones, etc.... They play in a total different league..

Sp was never a mass phenomenon...

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 08:12 AM   #25
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Sp was never a mass phenomenon...
…in Europe. In USA they were juggernauts. That said comparing Adore to Kid A…. errrr….no.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 08:19 AM   #26
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Radiohead is big and sp is the little niece

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:36 AM   #27
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…in Europe. In USA they were juggernauts. That said comparing Adore to Kid A…. errrr….no.
I'm not comparing the music, I'm making the point about a band releasing an album completely different from what they had made before. People fell over themselves about Kid A. Same can't be said for Adore.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:53 AM   #28
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I'm not comparing the music, I'm making the point about a band releasing an album completely different from what they had made before. People fell over themselves about Kid A. Same can't be said for Adore.
Yeah but what's so strange about Adore's failure?

Kid A is Radiohead's Sergent Pepper. A Beatles-level groundbreaking reinvention.

Adore is Billy's (un)consciously highjacking his own band's career with an album of good songs arranged to be hated by SD/MCIS fans. As you say, they really couldn't win.

1979x12= that'd have been their Kid A.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 11:00 AM   #29
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The Beatles were building to Sgt Pepper though. They didn't go straight from, say, Help!, to Sgt Pepper. There was enough notice on Revolver and Strawberry Fields Forever / Penny Lane on what was to come. What shocked people was how beautifully it held together, from the cover, to the image change, everything. It both reflected and defined the times.

Kid A came out of nowhere seemingly, but it wasn't really a new kind of music - it was just Radiohead mucking around with synths, and trying to be Autechre. But for some reason it appealed to people, but also a lot of people who wanted to pretend they were smart by listening to it. Critics were baffled by it, and it got VERY mixed reviews when it came out. But Radiohead stuck to their guns and never returned to their old style (much like REM post-Monster).

SP took all those things (new style from out of nowhere, image change etc) and employed them on Adore, but it didn't appeal to the general public. Where the Beatles were still cute with their moustaches and shiny military suits (and Radiohead didn't really have an image to start with), the bleak Nosferatu gothic look wasn't going to appeal to many, especially in the summer of 1998 (which I think I remember being a pretty good summer weather-wise).

They were a stadium level band, but made the least-stadium album possible. Again, not going to help matters. It would be like if Kings Of Leon made a dark, minimalist album, and then headed out on a massive tour to promote it - not gonna fly. I know SP went back to theatres for the Adore shows, which suited the music perfectly, but the average "rat in a cage" / 1979 fan wasn't going to be bothered with that, especially as there were like 10 people on stage now.

Last edited by eviltimeban : 01-14-2022 at 11:11 AM.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 11:44 AM   #30
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it was big

there was rumors that Puff Daddy was going to be producing the whole thing, but then additional rumors that James Iha shot Biggie put a quick "kabosh" on all that and it was suddenly rumored to become a "gay little acoustic album"

i guess in the end we got a bit of both, and hey, at least we still got some Puff Daddy tracks!

 
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