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Old 05-15-2024, 07:09 AM   #1
Morlock
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Default How irrelevant can an album be?

I don't care about the stats such as the number of plays, but I wonder how Billy, whose fragile ego is so dependent on recognition and who decided to so explicitly lean into the commercial game, is dealing with his hyper-ambitious project being such a flop? He must know how poorly ATUM has done, so is he just training himself to ignore it?

Checking out number of plays on Spotify. ATUM's are pretty low considering how long it's been out, with the exception of the singles and especially Beguiled. Disc 1 does best, Disc 3's numbers are mostly below 200,000 plays.

Looking at his peers, Pearl Jam's new album, released a couple weeks ago, is at >1 million for all tracks, and the title track already has more plays than Beguiled, 10.2 million vs. 9.9 million.

Thom Yorke and Johnny Greenwood are working with one hand tied behind their back with regards to their "brand" (to use Billy vocab) and are doing far better with this year's album.

Latest releases of less known "alternative" artists (Unknown Mortal Orchestra, Everything Everything) have better numbers than the Pumpkins.

 
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Old 05-15-2024, 09:21 AM   #2
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Nostalgia will play its part I'm sure. It's the last refuge of such people.

 
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Old 05-15-2024, 09:25 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morlock View Post
I don't care about the stats such as the number of plays, but I wonder how Billy, whose fragile ego is so dependent on recognition and who decided to so explicitly lean into the commercial game, is dealing with his hyper-ambitious project being such a flop? He must know how poorly ATUM has done, so is he just training himself to ignore it?

Checking out number of plays on Spotify. ATUM's are pretty low considering how long it's been out, with the exception of the singles and especially Beguiled. Disc 1 does best, Disc 3's numbers are mostly below 200,000 plays.

Looking at his peers, Pearl Jam's new album, released a couple weeks ago, is at >1 million for all tracks, and the title track already has more plays than Beguiled, 10.2 million vs. 9.9 million.

Thom Yorke and Johnny Greenwood are working with one hand tied behind their back with regards to their "brand" (to use Billy vocab) and are doing far better with this year's album.

Latest releases of less known "alternative" artists (Unknown Mortal Orchestra, Everything Everything) have better numbers than the Pumpkins.
Shoegaze is HUGE again. Make a damn shoegaze album Billy!

 
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Old 05-15-2024, 09:50 AM   #4
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you listening streaming music ?

 
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Old 05-15-2024, 10:27 AM   #5
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You say it's a flop but then how do you explain all 1333 copies of the deluxe vinyl boxset exclusive to madame zuzus dot com selling out within a year?

 
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Old 05-15-2024, 10:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morlock View Post
I don't care about the stats such as the number of plays, but I wonder how Billy, whose fragile ego is so dependent on recognition and who decided to so explicitly lean into the commercial game, is dealing with his hyper-ambitious project being such a flop? He must know how poorly ATUM has done, so is he just training himself to ignore it?
Was Atum hyper-ambitious? In what sense - because there were so many songs?

I'd be amazed if even Billy thought it'd do much commercially. I mean, even when his albums gets somewhat good critical reviews they haven't sold. I think Atum had been out for a couple of months before I shrugged off the torpor and forced myself to give it a listen. I don't think that'd be that unusual for the charred remains of what constitutes SP's fan base, but maybe I'm wrong.

Still, this was the guy who freaked out when Adore only went Platinum in the US, blamed its relative failure on the fans, so maybe he does expect releases to do well, who knows?

It must be tough to acknowledge that you were once really very good at something and now aren't, even if you pretend to yourself that you're being deliberately noncommercial, or stretching yourself beyond the box that legacy fans want to put you in (y'know, the box that says "good music" on the side). He's all written out, essentially. Sure, he can write a solid tune now and again, or pull off a good riff, but the days when he could write huge numbers of genuinely good songs are long gone - Zwan era in reality.

Last edited by RenewRevive : 05-15-2024 at 11:06 AM.

 
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Old 05-15-2024, 12:18 PM   #7
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I'd say it's very ambitious. Regardless of whether the tracks are enjoyable, some of them have loads of arrangement and complexity. ATUM wasn't a straightforward production. I'd say you'd need to go back to Zeitgeist or MACHINA to match it with regards to effort.
The lyrics too, look like effort. A little as I can get out of them, this is miles from "lover, you're strange".

He was pretty proud of Beguiled charting as evidence for the band's "relevance". If this is the measure, he must be pretty sad about the album's lack of popularity.

I don't even think it's such a poor album. I'd rate is above CYR and Shiny and think a handful of the 33 songs are alright.

 
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Old 05-15-2024, 01:16 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Morlock View Post
Latest releases of less known "alternative" artists (Unknown Mortal Orchestra, Everything Everything) have better numbers than the Pumpkins.
because their new albums and music are better than Pumpkins new albums/music, and unlike this fucking place most people in the wider world aren't so stupid they can't move on from a "cash cow" that already gave them the gold 2+ decades ago

 
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Old 05-15-2024, 01:16 PM   #9
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ban robinson curose

 
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Old 05-15-2024, 01:21 PM   #10
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Waiting for the BC in Carnyland OST to find out.

 
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Old 05-15-2024, 02:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninsp View Post
Shoegaze is HUGE again. Make a damn shoegaze album Billy!
it's so annoying he got into a shitty sparse style of music right as his voice got extra shitty with age. a return to shoegaze would've been justifiable at literally any time in their career but now you have 2 more very pressing reasons

 
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Old 05-15-2024, 03:07 PM   #12
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I've been really enjoying that Everything Everything album—hadn't heard of them before. Forgive me if this is the standard comparison they get, but it's like someone dared to pose the question, "What if Coldplay was good?"

 
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Old 05-15-2024, 04:13 PM   #13
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as with most things in life, I think it's fair to say you can thank Bono for that

 
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Old 05-15-2024, 05:21 PM   #14
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Everything Everything are FREAKIN gr8

 
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Old 05-15-2024, 07:59 PM   #15
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Still can’t make myself listen to this thing in full. Havent even heard most of the 2nd or 3rd. It’s just too exhausting. Physically and emotionally unpleasant. Life’s too short

 
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Old 05-15-2024, 11:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morlock View Post
I don't even think it's such a poor album. I'd rate is above CYR and Shiny and think a handful of the 33 songs are alright.
Wow what lofty heights of achievement.

 
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Old 05-16-2024, 03:27 AM   #17
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ATUM is in no fucking way better than Cyr (or Shiny), a clown-ass take for some clown-ass music.

 
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Old 05-16-2024, 08:16 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morlock View Post
I'd say it's very ambitious. Regardless of whether the tracks are enjoyable, some of them have loads of arrangement and complexity. ATUM wasn't a straightforward production. I'd say you'd need to go back to Zeitgeist or MACHINA to match it with regards to effort.
The lyrics too, look like effort. A little as I can get out of them, this is miles from "lover, you're strange".
In many ways that's much sadder than if he'd just phoned it in.

 
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Old 05-16-2024, 08:57 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
it's so annoying he got into a shitty sparse style of music right as his voice got extra shitty with age. a return to shoegaze would've been justifiable at literally any time in their career but now you have 2 more very pressing reasons
He can hide his voice behind a wall of fuzzy guitars, and if the songs don't have a chorus or hook like everything he's done for 15 years, nobody will care if the song is a v i b e

 
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Old 05-16-2024, 09:21 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by topleybird View Post
I've been really enjoying that Everything Everything album—hadn't heard of them before. Forgive me if this is the standard comparison they get, but it's like someone dared to pose the question, "What if Coldplay was good?"
I love Everything Everything and have been on board since the second album. "Danceable Radiohead" is a phrase often used.
I like Mountainhead, but then, I like all their albums. "Get to Heaven" is generally agreed as their best. The complete package is a masterpiece. It's from 2015 and captures the societal anxiety pre-Brexit and pre-Trump very well.

 
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Old 05-16-2024, 07:55 PM   #21
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Their debut record (Man Alive) is almost proggy in places - super intricate rhythms and wacky chord changes, all alongside super catchy tunes and mad vocal gymnastics.

 
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Old 05-16-2024, 09:26 PM   #22
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Shoegaze is HUGE again. Make a damn shoegaze album Billy!
Remember when the Oceania-era band did that live recording session for "Lonely Is The Name," it was the first Pumpkins song that fans really liked in a long time, and it was kinda shoegazey? And then he never even released the actual recording, leaving us with our rips from the livestream?

Why is he like this

 
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Old 05-17-2024, 06:48 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morlock View Post
I love Everything Everything and have been on board since the second album. "Danceable Radiohead" is a phrase often used.
I like Mountainhead, but then, I like all their albums. "Get to Heaven" is generally agreed as their best. The complete package is a masterpiece. It's from 2015 and captures the societal anxiety pre-Brexit and pre-Trump very well.
Nice, thanks. Definitely hear the Radiohead in there on Mountainhead. I'll check out Get to Heaven next.

 
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Old 05-17-2024, 07:25 PM   #24
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branding issues

 
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Old 05-18-2024, 06:02 AM   #25
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Remember when the Oceania-era band did that live recording session for "Lonely Is The Name"
no

 
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Old 05-18-2024, 06:50 AM   #26
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ATUM is as irrelevant as they come.

 
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Old 05-18-2024, 12:27 PM   #27
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Why is he like this

 
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Old 05-19-2024, 02:25 AM   #28
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remember when he said ATUM is the third part on "the MCIS and Machina trilogy" or whatever? :clown:

 
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Old 05-19-2024, 04:41 AM   #29
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remember when he said ATUM is the third part on "the MCIS and Machina trilogy" or whatever? :clown:
Claim: Atum is a sequel to Mellon Collie and Machina, finally completing the trilogy of albums.

Reality: Billy says the words "Zero" & "Glass" a couple of times in the lyrics.

 
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Old 05-19-2024, 12:52 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by bright_doom View Post
Claim: Atum is a sequel to Mellon Collie and Machina, finally completing the trilogy of albums.

Reality: Billy says the words "Zero" & "Glass" a couple of times in the lyrics.
Out on the plains of Chickamongo
Rode a lass who nigh could lasso straight
She knew her wilds but would not follow
A valentine arriving on Feb 8th
Rose played the bucks and
Rose skipped at luck and
Rose flowered out on the range
Alone in knowledge of life's great college
As summoned up on the stage
It was hi-hi-hi-de-yay
So giddy-up and truck, confound you's
It's giddy-up enough, we want to stray
Take the up and up 'til life astounds you
And giddy-up and up right off the page
For your amusement
This rose won't deign to fade, oh, oh, oh
Out on the hills of Rouge Diablo
Squints a gal for pals she shall not save
Her six shooters were a blazin'
As shined by tresses dyed in lemonade
Mercy me, oh (mercy me)
Oh, mercy mine-oh
Clementina (Clementina)
My clementine-a, oh
Out on the mounds of Ol' Piccocyto
That lass who lasso's straight (lasso's straight)
Once craved the wilds but since only follows
A valentine so brave
Where it's hi-hi-hi-de-yay
So giddy-up and truck, confound you's
It's giddy-up enough, we want to stray
Take the up and up 'til life astounds you
And giddy-up and up right off the page
This rose won't fade
This rose won't fade

 
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