Machina Reissue Is Here

[RenewRevive]

Originally Posted by MyKeyZ

Yeah, but those are concept albums not made by a deranged person and folks that can actually tell a story through music. Machina is a frigging mess.

P.S. Mellon Collie is not a concept album. Another one Billy's retcons after the fact.

You don't think Roger Waters is deranged? His domineering behaviour in Pink Floyd made Billy look like a rank amateur.

[RenewRevive]

Originally Posted by VoxUpDoc

I don’t think I’ve ever listened to any album and followed a lyrical narrative thread from track to track. That’s not what I listen to music for.

Agreed. When I put the Wall on, I skip all the non-song/kind-of-songs. One listen as a cohesive narrative was enough.

There's nothing like that in MCIS, which is a good thing. The only intrusion in Machina is the skippable spoken section in GatGC.

Basically, the chances of the writer in the band being great at writing songs and also at structuring a narrative theme for a concept, is close to zero. Peter Gabriel couldn't do it with The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, nor Waters with the Wall, either.

[ninsp]

Originally Posted by RenewRevive

Agreed. When I put the Wall on, I skip all the non-song/kind-of-songs. One listen as a cohesive narrative was enough.

There's nothing like that in MCIS, which is a good thing. The only intrusion in Machina is the skippable spoken section in GatGC.

Basically, the chances of the writer in the band being great at writing songs and also at structuring a narrative theme for a concept, is close to zero. Peter Gabriel couldn't do it with The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, nor Waters with the Wall, either.

What an odd take from a dude with a Peter Gabriel avatar. So you don’t like the narrative of songs like Supper’s Ready?

[T&T]

so lets do a concept album where people don't know the story or the thread that ties it all together and we'll skip all the oppertunity to make sure it's a clear strory.

MCIS billy reconned that it a concept album. I get the idea of "the wall for this generation" without it having to be a concept album. Just a Goliath of work for the kids of the 90's. that it was. yes there's some recurring themes as that's what usually happens when someone writes a bunch of songs. Artists steal from themselves.

Machine - "there's a story, but I won't tell you. It's a mystery. Can you guess?". cute.

ATUM - here's a weekly podcase where we go over it song by song - yet NO ONE cares. I've never seen a community cricket something so hard. and the little we did care was "WTF... this song is about THAT? you're really stretching it there mr.billy. Ruby is a robot... WTF??? make him stop."

[RenewRevive]

Originally Posted by ninsp

What an odd take from a dude with a Peter Gabriel avatar. So you don’t like the narrative of songs like Supper’s Ready?

That's a song. I'm talking about the not-really-songs that populate the albums I was referring to.

[redbreegull]

MCIS has a lot more in common with the White Album than The Wall

[Shadaloo]

In that Corgam said back in the day MCIS had a theme of "all the different emotions you feel in a day", it's a concept album and always was. But that's it.

What it's not and never was, is a rock opera. That's what Machina is or was supposed to be.

And rock operas are concept albums, but concept albums aren't necessarily rock operas. There's a lot of conflating of those two terms happening here, has been for a while.

[T&T]

Originally Posted by Shadaloo

In that Corgam said back in the day MCIS had a theme of "all the different emotions you feel in a day", it's a concept album and always was. But that's it.

What it's not and never was, is a rock opera. That's what Machina is or was supposed to be.

And rock operas are concept albums, but concept albums aren't necessarily rock operas. There's a lot of conflating of those two terms happening here, has been for a while.

YES. but the rock opera storyline of MCIS has been retconned.

https://www.lyricopera.org/shows/upc...inite-sadness/


& The Wall was the white album of ITS time.


here's some other famous double albums according to google:

[johncg]

Originally Posted by RenewRevive

You don't think Roger Waters is deranged? His domineering behaviour in Pink Floyd made Billy look like a rank amateur.

lol.

Fun question: who has the worst history of narcissistic crash outs in alternative/art rock history?

Morrissey, Corgan, or Waters.

[Squish Squash]

Originally Posted by johncg

lol.

Fun question: who has the worst history of narcissistic crash outs in alternative/art rock history?

Morrissey, Corgan, or Waters.

Lead singer syndrome is something

[RenewRevive]

Originally Posted by johncg

lol.

Fun question: who has the worst history of narcissistic crash outs in alternative/art rock history?

Morrissey, Corgan, or Waters.

Haha, that's a tough one. I don't know as much about Morrisey's antics, but I'd go for Waters. His treatment of Richard Wright eclipses anything Billy has managed to date, I think.

[Disco King]

Morrissey is the only one of these guys who might be racist, right?

Like, it seems like Corgan is an interpersonal asshole, whereas Morrissey supports systemic assholery.

I don't really know anything about Waters.

[RenewRevive]

Originally Posted by Disco King

Morrissey is the only one of these guys who might be racist, right?

Like, it seems like Corgan is an interpersonal asshole, whereas Morrissey supports systemic assholery.

I don't really know anything about Waters.

I think Waters is a role-model for Billy tbh — control freak, gradually pushed the rest of the guys out of writing anything (I think Gilmour wrote only 1 or 2 tracks on the Wall), then bullied Wright, who was having serious marriage problems, for not contributing enough, reducing him to salaried employee status. Class act.

Haha, I forgot about Morrissey being a racist!

[ourruseoffools]

morrissey is def an asshole outside of being racist lmfao

[ourruseoffools]

johnny marr turned down actually millions of dollars to avoid hanging around morrissey

[Disco King]

Originally Posted by ourruseoffools

morrissey is def an asshole outside of being racist lmfao

Did anybody say otherwise

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Disco King

Morrissey is the only one of these guys who might be racist, right?

Like, it seems like Corgan is an interpersonal asshole, whereas Morrissey supports systemic assholery.

I don't really know anything about Waters.

Waters does actually believe the Jewish elite are running the world, but he couches it really far inside "Israel is evil"

[Disco King]

Hmm… well, Corgan regularly went on the podcast of a guy who believes that (though I've never heard him express anything like that himself). And while on that guy's show, he did compare BLM to the KKK (well, he didn't say they were morally equivalent, but he made some braindead unsophisticated point like "hey, the KKK thought they were right, too!").

But on the other hand, his band is half Asian, showing a commitment to equity and inclusion.

Guys, I think our guy is the least racist of the asshole frontmen

[MyKeyZ]

Originally Posted by Disco King

Hmm… well, Corgan regularly went on the podcast of a guy who believes that (though I've never heard him express anything like that himself). And while on that guy's show, he did compare BLM to the KKK (well, he didn't say they were morally equivalent, but he made some braindead unsophisticated point like "hey, the KKK thought they were right, too!").

But on the other hand, his band is half Asian, showing a commitment to equity and inclusion.

Guys, I think our guy is the least racist of the asshole frontmen

But he is a transphobe

[srt4b]

Originally Posted by Disco King

Morrissey is the only one of these guys who might be racist, right?

Like, it seems like Corgan is an interpersonal asshole, whereas Morrissey supports systemic assholery.

I don't really know anything about Waters.

Imagine for a moment you are just sitting around wonder who MAY BE a racist?

[Disco King]

Lol, why not

[Disco King]

Today's kids are so sensitive that you can't even joke about who might be racist anymore. "Umm, excuse me, whether somebody is racist or not is deeply personal to them and you shouldn't make light of it." Back in my day, we'd call each other the 'r' word (racist) for fun.

[VoxUpDoc]

Originally Posted by MyKeyZ

But he is a transphobe

Who isn’t!?

Am I right? o/

[redbreegull]

Hopefully Billy learned from his experience and understands that he dodged being canceled and getting a Wikipedia section on transphobic comments by about 1.5 years

I was thinking about his transphobic episodes, and then I was pondering how in If There is a God, God changes pronouns from he to she to they

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by ourruseoffools

johnny marr turned down actually millions of dollars to avoid hanging around morrissey

when was this?

I remember reading from Marr that in around 2009 he and Morrissey met for tea or whatever British people do, and they floated the idea of playing together again, and both seemed enthusiastic so Marr said call me, Morrissey said ok, and Marr never heard from him again

[redbreegull]

I would say out of the three Waters' insanity is the most malign/cruel

[RenewRevive]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

Hopefully Billy learned from his experience and understands that he dodged being canceled and getting a Wikipedia section on transphobic comments by about 1.5 years

I was thinking about his transphobic episodes, and then I was pondering how in If There is a God, God changes pronouns from he to she to they

By "episodes", there's just (lol) the 2 I can think of — the blow-out fume fest on here with that amp-designer who he was friendly with before it went dramatically south and from the old blog, when he recounts an interesting experience when he was living in Florida.

Are there more?

[New Art Rioter]

Corgan is def the best of the three. Sometimes I think it’s a bit of a shame he doesn’t use his platform for Palestine or whatever but I think he realised it’s best for everyone that he doesn’t go near politics. I’ll take a vague anti bullying vibe from him over flat out racism like Morrissey.

[Disco King]

I kind of wish more celebrities realized that being good at their craft doesn't make them any kind of intellectual or moral authority and just stuck to playing their guitars or whatever that "using their platforms to do XYZ important thing."

Like, when people go "it's so awful that Taylor Swift has all this influence and refuses to speak out about the whales" or whatever, I think "maybe the problem is our celebrity worship, and the fact that we look toward pop stars for what to think about the whales instead of, like, whale biologists." We interview Leonardo DiCaprio about climate change instead of interviewing a climate scientist.

[brothahi4L]

Is there a release date for the machina reissue?

Vinyl only???

Need answer. Thx