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Old 06-22-2012, 02:31 PM   #1
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Default Billy Is Annoying Me With His "I Decided Not To Write Hits For 15 Years" BS

No, you didn't. To say you did is just silly and blatantly false. I still love his music, but he hasn't written a hit since 1998 (if we are really generous and call 'Ava Adore' a "hit"). I can't stand dishonestly from artists.

In fairness, Thom Yorke said something equally ridiculous about how "writing hits got boring" and that "he could write 100 'Just's' or 'High and Dry's" if he wanted to". What a bunch of bullshit.

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 02:33 PM   #2
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http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/b...billyblack.png

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 02:35 PM   #3
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do you think a pop song is defined only by being popular

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 02:43 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
do you think a pop song is defined only by being popular
In part, absolutely. Most classic "pop songs" have been wildly popular and culturally relevant to one degree or another. There's something to be said about being "the biggest rock band in the world" and selling millions of albums. And I don't believe for a second that he would pass that up if he really could still write hit songs. Oceania is a pretty blatant attempt at pleasing rock fans. Hey, it pleased most Pumpkins fans, so mission accomplished. It's still not nearly as good as SD or MCIS and it won't be nearly as culturally relevant.

Saying nonsense like "I could easily write another Siamese Dream if I really wanted to" just makes me shake my head.

I love his music and have all the albums, but he absolutely could not write a mainstream hit no matter how hard he tried. He just couldn't. It's not a choice, he's just past his artistic prime and no longer in touch with pop culture.

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 03:11 PM   #6
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so stairway to heaven is a pop song to you?

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 03:34 PM   #7
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Obviously.

Written and recorded when Page/Plant were in their 20s. Same age as Corgan when he wrote all his hits.

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 03:39 PM   #8
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lol ok guy

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:24 PM   #9
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What do you call Stairway to Heaven, guy? Indie? Fucking nuts.

And are you denying that Corgan is completely full of shit for saying he could write another Siamese Dream but simply chooses not to. He tried to write hits for Zeitgeist, but flopped hard.

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:26 PM   #10
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And we're talking about his claim that he can still write hits. This conversation has nothing to do with pop vs. rock vs. prog rock vs. indie vs. metal vs. whateverthefuckelse.

Way to derail the thread, brah.

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:26 PM   #11
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no "writing another siamese dream" is absolutely fucking impossible

writing another pop song, which he could do and hasn't, isn't.

same with radiohead, they haven't written a pop song since OKC

but i'll let someone else explain to you what pop is and how stairway to heaven is not a pop song and how this has nothing to do with 'indie' which is chock full of bands writing pop songs.

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:39 PM   #12
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no "writing another siamese dream" is absolutely fucking impossible

writing another pop song, which he could do and hasn't, isn't.

same with radiohead, they haven't written a pop song since OKC

but i'll let someone else explain to you what pop is and how stairway to heaven is not a pop song and how this has nothing to do with 'indie' which is chock full of bands writing pop songs.
What are you not comprehending? Nobody is talking about pop songs besides you. Pop songs /= hits. You are confusing the two.

And what on earth is your point about Stairway To Heaven? What does that have to do with anything? That song was a massive hit. One of the biggest hits ever. Whether you want to classify it as pop or pop-rock is completely irrelevant. What was your point? Did you have one?

By the way, Corgan has written shitloads of pop songs since the Pumpkins popularity went south (Zwan was an entire album of pop-rock). Radiohead has written shitloads of pop-rock too. So you are wrong there.

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:44 PM   #13
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i mean i know you think you're entitled to your opinion since you can form sentences and type them on the computer but it's pretty obvious that you're 1) convinced you're right already, 2) angry at anyone who disagrees with you, 3) have no fucking idea what you're talking about

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:47 PM   #14
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i think billy has tried to write pop songs

and i think in rainbows has some pop songs

but maybe we should have a better definition of "pop song"

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:51 PM   #15
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i can see that tarantula could be considered pop but honestly the metal machine epic of machina doesn't have any pop on it but i haven't listened to it in a while

which songs on radiohead's albums post okc do you think are pop?

i mean my definition is
  • 4-5 minutes at most, but best under 4 at least the "uneditable" part, you can have an extended jam out after the song like whirring by the joy formidable
  • simple structure usually verse/chorus/verse/chorus x2+ and maybe a solo in there or so
  • hooks galore
  • memorable, simple, catchy chorus
  • universal message
  • danceable rhythms

wiki sez:

Quote:
Musicologists often identify the following characteristics as typical of the pop music genre:

an aim of appealing to a general audience, rather than to a particular sub-culture or ideology[4]
an emphasis on craftsmanship rather than formal "artistic" qualities[4]
an emphasis on recording, production, and technology, over live performance[11]
a tendency to reflect existing trends rather than progressive developments[11]
much pop music is intended to encourage dancing, or it uses dance-oriented beats or rhythms[11]

The main medium of pop music is the song, often between two and a half and three and a half minutes in length, generally marked by a consistent and noticeable rhythmic element, a mainstream style and a simple traditional structure.[16] Common variants ******* the verse-chorus form and the thirty-two-bar form, with a focus on melodies and catchy hooks, and a chorus that contrasts melodically, rhythmically and harmonically with the verse.[17] The beat and the melodies tend to be simple, with limited harmonic accompaniment.[18] The lyrics of modern pop songs typically focus on simple themes – often love and romantic relationships – although there are notable exceptions.[4]

Harmony in pop music is often "that of classical European tonality, only more simple-minded."[19] Clichés ******* the barbershop harmony (i.e. moving from a secondary dominant harmony to a dominant harmony, and then to the tonic) and blues scale-influenced harmony.[20] "The influence of the circle-of-fifths paradigm has declined since the mid-1950s. The harmonic languages of rock and soul have moved away from the all-encompassing influence of the dominant function. ...There are other tendencies (perhaps also traceable to the use of a guitar as a composing instrument) – pedal-point harmonies, root motion by diatonic step, modal harmonic and melodic organization – that point away from functional tonality and toward a tonal sense that is less directional, more free-floating."[21]

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:53 PM   #16
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I have a bone to pick, and I'm gonna break some!!

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
i mean i know you think you're entitled to your opinion since you can form sentences and type them on the computer but it's pretty obvious that you're 1) convinced you're right already, 2) angry at anyone who disagrees with you, 3) have no fucking idea what you're talking about
You aren't disagreeing with me though. Seems we are having two entirely different conversations.

I think it's blatantly obvious that he has tried to write "hits" ('Honestly', 'That's The Way My Love Is', even 'My Love Is Winter'). None of them caught on with the mainstream or became "hits", so he fell back on the excuse that he really wasn't trying to write hit songs. I think it's an ego thing for him. Sort of like the guy who gets turned down by a girl then tells himself that he didn't really want her anyway.

And a hit song doesn't have to be pop. I consider 'Zero' to be a pretty big hit and it certainly wasn't a pop song.

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:56 PM   #18
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Btw I don't think billy even said he purposely didnt write a hit song in the past 10 years. I think he meant something more in the lines of 'i haven't tried as hard' and 'didn't go for my absolute best'.. Implying he needed to get some of the ok stuff out first to get to where he is now.. Which yeah does come across as bs, and I can see how that would irritate someone.

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:57 PM   #19
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But if you've got a direct quote, prove me wrong.

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:59 PM   #20
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Quote:
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You aren't disagreeing with me though. Seems we are having two entirely different conversations.
i think that's why i asked you to clarify, because this seemed cross referenced with another thread where you said something about how "nobody" could tell 1979 would be a "hit" even though i pointed out that it's deliberate crossover pop.

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 05:03 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pump King View Post
I think it's blatantly obvious that he has tried to write "hits" ('Honestly', 'That's The Way My Love Is', even 'My Love Is Winter'). None of them caught on with the mainstream or became "hits", so he fell back on the excuse that he really wasn't trying to write hit songs. I think it's an ego thing for him. Sort of like the guy who gets turned down by a girl then tells himself that he didn't really want her anyway.
and yes i can agree all of this is true, especially considering the guy we're talking about

i really don't think radiohead has been writing stuff to appeal to mainstream audiences lately though, so. i think if thom wrote some song that was in the vein of High and Dry or Creep the Radiocult would just absolutely soil themselves in unison and it'd be a huge hit

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 05:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoid View Post
Btw I don't think billy even said he purposely didnt write a hit song in the past 10 years. I think he meant something more in the lines of 'i haven't tried as hard' and 'didn't go for my absolute best'.. Implying he needed to get some of the ok stuff out first to get to where he is now.. Which yeah does come across as bs, and I can see how that would irritate someone.
I would have no problem with that at all. What he said was more in line with "meh.. I can write a huge hit whenever I want, I just haven't felt like it for 15 years, that's all". Delusional bragging. Kinda like how he said he would knock someone out if they said something rude to him because he's so tall and big and tough.

I'll have to listen to the O&A interview again for the direct quote.

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 05:18 PM   #23
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Tarantula was a hit. It got shit tons of radio play in 2007.

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 05:22 PM   #24
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is that how low the bar is for you killtrocity

 
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Old 06-22-2012, 06:26 PM   #25
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now, see, trots is trolling again. i just don't know.

 
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Old 06-23-2012, 12:14 AM   #26
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"This Time" is pretty poppy as far as machina goes

 
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:01 AM   #27
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i figured SIYL, seeing as how it was a single and all, but that wiki definition Trots posted has me mightily confused so i dunno.

 
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:03 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
and yes i can agree all of this is true, especially considering the guy we're talking about

i really don't think radiohead has been writing stuff to appeal to mainstream audiences lately though, so. i think if thom wrote some song that was in the vein of High and Dry or Creep the Radiocult would just absolutely soil themselves in unison and it'd be a huge hit
Not sure...I love Readiohead, but hardly listen to anything pre-OK Computer, the Iron Lung EP being the only exception.

 
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Old 06-23-2012, 06:35 PM   #29
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that's unfortunate because the bends is great

 
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:33 PM   #30
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The bends is amazing

 
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