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Old 02-04-2024, 12:00 AM   #301
Rairun
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Originally Posted by smashingjj View Post
where are you from Rairun, if I may ask?
I'm from Brazil. Grew up there, immigrated in my mid-twenties.

Anyway, I think I'm going to leave this thread now because I feel like anything else I say will be useless. I don't particularly want to fight with ilikeplanets and MyOneAndOnly (I know we're not friends, but over the years it's been nice to know there's a queer caucus of sorts around here), but those last few comments have truly left me stunned. Israel is not in any shape or form 'liberating' queer Palestinians, they're bombing them, their families, and their friends. You can't pinkwash any of this. The hijab comment made me particularly sad too. I've known people who wore one. They were sweet.

 
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Old 02-04-2024, 01:32 AM   #302
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That comment wasn't a slight at people who wear hijab, and I don't know how it could have read that way to you.

She was referring to the lunacy and misguided nature around people that would be human targets for the people they're "defending" stomping around a city in the US in traditional Middle Eastern attire. One that is often symbolic of oppression, at that.

I don't want to fight with anyone. After several months of these horrendous discussions, I have finally found the correct measure of dissociation needed to avoid taking any of it personally while maintaining my fire.

 
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Old 02-04-2024, 10:00 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by MyOneAndOnly View Post
... liberal hatred for Jews right now ... I have liberal friends ....
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Originally Posted by MyOneAndOnly View Post
one of my trans friends ...

people have lost their damn minds
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
ceasefire, which was supposed to solve everything (stupid but pervasive opinion),
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
the lunacy and misguided nature around people that would be human targets for the people they're "defending" stomping around a city in the US in traditional Middle Eastern attire.
throughout this thread both of you have been continually ignoring the thoughtful and informed criticism of israel that people are posting and instead implying that that criticism is somehow aligned with more uninformed or radical or racist positions of "other people you know" or "people on the internet." classic bullshit fox news strategy. nobody here is making the straw man arguments y'all are pushing back against. of course various dumbass people on both sides of this issue will have bad, lazy, radical takes--just like with any issue.

what they/we are saying is more significant than just "some moron bought a hijab," it's that israel is *harming itself* by performing serious war crimes/genocide, which, looking at the UN definition, is hard to argue with.

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

Last edited by ovary : 02-04-2024 at 04:24 PM.

 
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Old 02-04-2024, 10:47 AM   #304
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No, I said that if Israel doesn't take military action then it will be destroyed by violence

And I said that if there's no Israel, then that's a deadly problem for Jews

I haven't been ignoring criticism. I've provided criticism while acknowledging that it's basically an impossible problem to solve if people refuse to peacefully share space.

Last edited by ilikeplanets : 02-04-2024 at 10:55 AM.

 
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Old 02-04-2024, 04:26 PM   #305
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I mean, I literally just quoted you doing the straw-man thing. You can't just say "no I didn't." But whatever.

 
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Old 02-04-2024, 05:22 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by Rairun View Post
I'm from Brazil. Grew up there, immigrated in my mid-twenties.
Ah yes I did know this

 
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Old 02-04-2024, 11:49 PM   #307
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And I said that if there's no Israel, then that's a deadly problem for Jews

Do we really need fascist ethno-states in the 21st century?

The answer is yes. I won't rest until the Scientologists have our own homeland. I don't care who has to suffer until we make this happen.

Iceland with all your fucking volcanoes better watch the fuck out from my boy Xenu.

 
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Old 02-05-2024, 05:48 AM   #308
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Thumbs up

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What's your evidence that pro Hamas "activists" would ever vote for the bad orange man?

I'm trying to tread lightly, since I was threatened with a ban from "the powers that be."
Feel free to prove the points I was making earlier by never replying.

 
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Old 02-17-2024, 04:42 PM   #309
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OK, I guess that ends that. Everyone pack your bags. Pay attention, because the "celebrity" just schooled us.

Marvel Actor Mark Ruffalo Demands Ceasefire In Gaza And Israel: “We’re Not Going To Bomb Our Way To Peace’

 
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Old 02-17-2024, 05:33 PM   #310
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petition to ban this asswipe. does it need its own thread?

 
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Old 02-17-2024, 05:55 PM   #311
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OK, I guess that ends that. Everyone pack your bags. Pay attention, because the "celebrity" just schooled us.

Marvel Actor Mark Ruffalo Demands Ceasefire In Gaza And Israel: “We’re Not Going To Bomb Our Way To Peace’
Ends what? You never reply to anything.

Why the parentheses? He is a celebrity, no matter how you turn it.

 
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Old 02-18-2024, 12:15 PM   #312
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Rightwing obsession with what celebrities say is so weird, like they’re not human beings or something

 
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Old 02-18-2024, 12:15 PM   #313
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Like, sucking the teat of oil barons and bitcoin shucksters but being all STFU HOLLYWOOD

 
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Old 02-18-2024, 09:17 PM   #314
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OK, I guess that ends that. Everyone pack your bags. Pay attention, because the "celebrity" just schooled us.

Marvel Actor Mark Ruffalo Demands Ceasefire In Gaza And Israel: “We’re Not Going To Bomb Our Way To Peace’
You’re a retard.

 
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Old 02-19-2024, 05:52 PM   #315
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Like, sucking the teat of oil barons and bitcoin shucksters but being all STFU HOLLYWOOD
Yeah it's a joke. Cynicism become religion.

 
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Old 02-23-2024, 10:26 PM   #316
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From the FT today. Wtf. How soon can sane Israelis remove this madman

Quote:
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has finally unveiled Israel’s plans for Gaza after hostilities end in the enclave, submitting to his war cabinet a formal proposal that directly contradicts the objectives of the US.

The one-page document, released overnight by his office, makes no mention of any role for the Palestinian Authority, the West Bank-based rival to Hamas that the Biden administration wants to see take over control, and rejects unilateral international steps towards recognition of a Palestinian state.

It also foresees a sizeable security buffer within the besieged enclave, an outcome the US has made clear it opposes. John Kirby, spokesperson for the US National Security Council, on Friday said “we don’t believe in any reduction of the size of Gaza”.

While vaguely worded, and appealing to his domestic rightwing political base, the Israeli document entitled “The Day After Hamas Principles” is the first official distillation of Netanyahu’s prior statements on the issue. It is not clear whether the war cabinet was asked to vote on it.

Dividing Gaza’s future into near, medium and long-term phases, it makes clear that Israel will continue its long-running blockade of the enclave and intends to remain involved in civilian life there, including local policing and the teachings of schools and mosques.

 
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Old 02-24-2024, 08:52 PM   #317
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Old 02-24-2024, 11:45 PM   #318
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Can Netphoria solve this conflict? Big if true!

 
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Old 02-25-2024, 05:30 AM   #319
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I found this guy really difficult to listen to, and partly because I find claims of genocide and ethnic cleansing are difficult to take seriously when the Palestinian population has grown by a few million people since 1967.

It’s a horrendous situation…but I just don’t know if ethnic cleansing/genocide is the right way to frame it

I dunno. Maybe I just haven’t thought it through enough

 
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Old 02-25-2024, 07:14 AM   #320
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I found this guy really difficult to listen to, and partly because I find claims of genocide and ethnic cleansing are difficult to take seriously when the Palestinian population has grown by a few million people since 1967.

It’s a horrendous situation…but I just don’t know if ethnic cleansing/genocide is the right way to frame it

I dunno. Maybe I just haven’t thought it through enough
It’s because Gaza has a very high birth rate; nearly half their population is children (tens of thousands of whom have been killed so far)

In just first three weeks, more Palestinian children were killed by Israeli bombing in Gaza than have all children in all of the world’s conflict zones since 2019.

 
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Old 02-25-2024, 07:22 AM   #321
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Around 1.7 million people in the Gaza Strip are estimated to have been internally displaced – half of them children. They do not have enough access to water, food, fuel and medicine.

https://www.unicef.org/emergencies/c...saving-support

Last edited by TuralyonW3 : 02-25-2024 at 05:27 PM.

 
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Old 02-25-2024, 07:33 AM   #322
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Israel has and uses the power to cut off food, power, and all basic life necessities to these masses of Gazans. The Gazans then flee to where they are told, and are still attacked and killed, many of them still in their evacuation caravans. These civilians (many of them kids/teens) do not have the power/choice to free the hostages that Hamas is holding.

Last edited by TuralyonW3 : 02-25-2024 at 05:28 PM.

 
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Old 02-25-2024, 07:35 AM   #323
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del

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Old 02-25-2024, 11:01 AM   #324
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i heard a US academic expert on international war crime law or whatever on the quillete podcast and he said:

1. there is a strict legal definition of genocide that israel's actions do not meet because the civilian deaths are "collateral damage." to count as genocide, they need to be exclusively targeting civilians, not just killing them in addition to combatants. reporting i've seen suggests many of these strikes are directed exclusively at civilians, but who knows/i'm not there/fog of war/whatever. also, i mean, he was on quillete.

2. part of international genocide law is that if a state determines an action to be "genocide" then they have a legal obligation to intervene. so states rarely use that term.

3. there are other legal terms like "crimes against humanity" (just any killing of civilians) that israel certainly *is* committing, but rhetorically there is incentive on both sides to instead talk about "genocide"... the left can utilize it as a rhetorical bomb, and the right can shift the convo toward whether the actions meet that stricter definition, rather than confronting the more obvious war crimes head on.

 
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Old 02-26-2024, 02:39 AM   #325
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If I separate what is happening now from what happened previously - in terms of what is happening now, with the mass displacement of people, potential widespread death due to basic needs for survival not being met, and that being controlled by the current Israeli government - I think that has the potential to be genocidal.

And maybe I am wrong - but that video above seemed to suggest this was the tactic from the time Israel created itself as a state - ethnic cleansing/genocide. That’s the bit I find hard to reconcile that with the population growth in Gaza.

I think it’s fucking terrible, what the current Israeli government is doing. Military action in Rafah, after advising everyone to go there to avoid military action, with so many families and children living in tents, is hard to process. Just in case I’m coming across some other way. I’ve refrained from commenting about it because I’m so ignorant. And I do feel it’s more complex than just what Israel is doing, there are a lot of interdependent factors or however people what to describe it. But I can’t understand how Israel moving into Rafah, and Netanyahu now laying out this batshit crazy plan, can be anything except fucking terrible.

 
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Old 02-26-2024, 09:34 AM   #326
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this one is long, but really good, much more in depth than the one above, to which I substantially do agree. if you have the time, watch, or rather listen to it, it's podcast-y


 
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Old 02-26-2024, 10:06 AM   #327
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the part starting at 56.54 about Biden is something I especially would like the Biden supporters of this board to listen to

 
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Old 02-26-2024, 12:42 PM   #328
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Trump 2024?

 
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Old 02-26-2024, 12:51 PM   #329
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Old 02-27-2024, 02:42 AM   #330
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So how about the active duty Air Force serviceman who burned himself alive outside of the Israeli embassy in DC?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ1cpb8Ilk0&rco=1

He got a lot done, didn't he??

 
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