5.11.22

[epinson]

Originally Posted by srt4b

Why didn't Manson & SP play NBA arenas then?

Not entirely sure (I'm not an industry professional), but obviously one factor is that the reunion with James has boosted the standing of Smashing Pumpkins as far as LiveNation goes. They went from large clubs and small pavilions to arenas for the 2018 reunion tour. I was skeptical in the beginning, but it ended up doing fairly decent business (most shows didnt sell out, but they sold enough to have them asked back for another tour).

[Forgotten Child]

They also played small clubs in 2019 tho. At least here in Europe.

[slayed23]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

They also played small clubs in 2019 tho. At least here in Europe.

That was with Gallagher and played at similar amphitheaters as the Manson tour in 2015. Atleast here is the US.

[slayed23]

Just surprising how well they did selling tickets in 2018. I forget the timeline but was Darcy still a possibility when they went on sale back then?

[Forgotten Child]

Originally Posted by slayed23

That was with Gallagher and played at similar amphitheaters as the Manson tour in 2015. Atleast here is the US.

In 2019 they played small clubs in Europe. I saw them in Amsterdam, in the AFAS Live (capacity: 6k).

https://www.setlist.fm/search?artist...n+Tour+2019%29

They were touring alone with a few local bands opening the concerts. Fang Club opened for them in Amsterdam.

[Forgotten Child]

Originally Posted by slayed23

Just surprising how well they did selling tickets in 2018. I forget the timeline but was Darcy still a possibility when they went on sale back then?

No. The word was already out, Darcy had done a few interviews before the official announcement. They announced the your dates and members the same day with this video:

[themadcaplaughs]

Originally Posted by Mhr2002

Just saw them play OIAL in Santa Barbara and thought it killed. Was way more into it than when I saw them play it in 2000

When I saw it Birmingham, it was one of two spots where he completely lost the crowd (the other being "Black Forest, Black Hills"). Crowd was not hostile for either, but more "umm...ok." You had a few people who realized what the cover was based on the lyrics and were mildly amused, but it was just so bizarre a choice; particularly (as others have mentioned) it was never a well-known cover of theirs or a fan favorite when they did it in 2000.

[themadcaplaughs]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

No. The word was already out, Darcy had done a few interviews before the official announcement. They announced the your dates and members the same day with this video:

Like everything SP related since 2007, it was a complete clusterfuck. D'arcy went to the media three or four weeks before the "big announcement" (which everyone knew was James re-joining the band and a nostalgia tour). Of course, it spread all over and resulted in the band having to issue a press release about how D'arcy would not be joining them, but they had to avoid using the word "tour" because the stupid timer on the website hadn't ended yet. You'd think Billy would have learned his lesson in 2007, and just been upfront about who was and was not in the band, but nope; pretty much a complete rehash of that. Even though D'arcy had already said she wasn't involved, nothing was sadder than those leaked pictures of D'arcy-less Pumpkins (and Jeff) during the photo shoot they did for the tour.

[Ram27]

resulted in the band having to issue a press release about how D'arcy would not be joining them, but they had to avoid using the word "tour" because the stupid timer on the website hadn't ended yet.

HAHAHAHAAAAAA i forget about this totally. amazing

[TheAlter]

Sad, but not nearly as sad as WPC sporting a Sad Machines sweater

[T&T]

Billy's fixation on announcements of announcements... better to keep the timer going for the announcement and issue a quirky press release.
d'arcy fucked up his BIG annoucement. boohoo.

at this point, whatever. it's not like James joining the band saved us from a CYR

[houseofglass11]

Let’s be honest here, James is just padding his retirement nest egg. I’m sure he’s having a lot of fun playing these old songs again. But I don’t think he gives the slightest shit about them writing new songs together or contributing to a new album. I’m sure he likes to limit his time spent anywhere near Billy when they aren’t on tour.

[NovaFritz]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

Let’s be honest here, James is just padding his retirement nest egg. I’m sure he’s having a lot of fun playing these old songs again. But I don’t think he gives the slightest shit about them writing new songs together or contributing to a new album. I’m sure he likes to limit his time spent anywhere near Billy when they aren’t on tour.

I don't see this. He put out a solo album in 2012 that he clearly invested a lot of time into. He is very creative on the stage in the current live shows. I am sure that he and everyone else in the band know that challenging Belly's huge ego would only lead to strife and exiting the band. But does this mean that this is all James wants? I am sure the reason he put out the solo album in 1998 was because Billy had marginalized him. Same thing happened with Pink Floyd: solo albums from Gilmour, Wright, and Mason as soon as Roger Waters became the controlling "ideas guy" who rejected their input.

[TheAlter]

2012 was ten years ago. It looks more like a hobby than a permanent creative outlet.

[T&T]

James easily understand that the golden years are the only years that matter. no one will ever care about shiny, cyr or MCIS part3. sorry billy...

[themadcaplaughs]

Originally Posted by NovaFritz

I don't see this. He put out a solo album in 2012 that he clearly invested a lot of time into. He is very creative on the stage in the current live shows. I am sure that he and everyone else in the band know that challenging Belly's huge ego would only lead to strife and exiting the band. But does this mean that this is all James wants? I am sure the reason he put out the solo album in 1998 was because Billy had marginalized him. Same thing happened with Pink Floyd: solo albums from Gilmour, Wright, and Mason as soon as Roger Waters became the controlling "ideas guy" who rejected their input.

The thing is, I think James could probably push more than he does, and get away with it. For years, people put up with Billy's various 2007-2016 lineups of the band because we assumed a reunion of James and Billy was impossible, and those various other lineups were considered the best alternative. James re-joined in 2018, and the sound of the band almost immediately improved (even if still a far cry from the "glory days"). Furthermore, without doing co-headlining tours, we've seen that the best modern Smashing Pumpkins can do on their own, outside of the occasional festival date, are 2,000-3,500 person theaters and amphitheaters (or a the back lot of brewery like I saw them in Birmingham). If James stood up to Billy and Billy made James walk, it would be back to playing state fairs like they were doing towards the end of the Mike Byrne era. It is not unlike when Slash rejoined GN'R a few years back. The only reason people saw the "Axl only" lineups of that band was because it was the best way to see Axl sing the oldies, and the chances of Slash and Axl making amends seemed slim. But they did, and people sure as hell aren't going to go back to seeing Guns N' Roses with a bunch of random rock band rejects if Slash were to ever walk again.

The point being, even if James suddenly pushed some new musical agenda that Billy didn't like, Billy isn't going to fire him and go back to playing tiny venues and having any new music ignored more than it already is. The fact is, James seems to be happy playing the oldies and being a secondary player on any new music Billy makes, which is fine. The dude seems to have found a good balance with his place in the Smashing Pumpkins, his music career in general, and his family. Also, say what you will, but the dude was still - far and away- the most cool and engaging musician on stage when I saw them a few weeks ago. Ok, him and Jimmy

[Ram27]

agree. when james came out i was struck by how /fucking cool/ he looked/dressed/acted

[NovaFritz]

Originally Posted by themadcaplaughs

The thing is, I think James could probably push more than he does, and get away with it. For years, people put up with Billy's various 2007-2016 lineups of the band because we assumed a reunion of James and Billy was impossible, and those various other lineups were considered the best alternative. James re-joined in 2018, and the sound of the band almost immediately improved (even if still a far cry from the "glory days"). Furthermore, without doing co-headlining tours, we've seen that the best modern Smashing Pumpkins can do on their own, outside of the occasional festival date, are 2,000-3,500 person theaters and amphitheaters (or a the back lot of brewery like I saw them in Birmingham). If James stood up to Billy and Billy made James walk, it would be back to playing state fairs like they were doing towards the end of the Mike Byrne era. It is not unlike when Slash rejoined GN'R a few years back. The only reason people saw the "Axl only" lineups of that band was because it was the best way to see Axl sing the oldies, and the chances of Slash and Axl making amends seemed slim. But they did, and people sure as hell aren't going to go back to seeing Guns N' Roses with a bunch of random rock band rejects if Slash were to ever walk again.

The point being, even if James suddenly pushed some new musical agenda that Billy didn't like, Billy isn't going to fire him and go back to playing tiny venues and having any new music ignored more than it already is. The fact is, James seems to be happy playing the oldies and being a secondary player on any new music Billy makes, which is fine. The dude seems to have found a good balance with his place in the Smashing Pumpkins, his music career in general, and his family. Also, say what you will, but the dude was still - far and away- the most cool and engaging musician on stage when I saw them a few weeks ago. Ok, him and Jimmy

I hear you. I think this is reasonable and makes sense, but I also think that everyone knows just do let BC do his ill-advised ego-tripping. On the one hand, yes it's probably for money and comfort, on the other hand, I think they have learned that nothing else is possible. I think the story of JC leaving the band in part over a Superchrist credit (is there a source for this?) would be in line with the "don't rock Billy's ego boat" narrative. But of course, they wouldn't put up with any of this if they didn't enjoy the big venues and big pay checks. I just think that they might be happy to contribute more to the albums. Exhibit A: CYR.

[brothahi4L]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

Let’s be honest here, James is just padding his retirement nest egg. I’m sure he’s having a lot of fun playing these old songs again. But I don’t think he gives the slightest shit about them writing new songs together or contributing to a new album. I’m sure he likes to limit his time spent anywhere near Billy when they aren’t on tour.

Best entry in months. That is the main reason why we dont hear guitr inteply why the songs suck, wh bill lost his ability to write an rcord top gier album/ songs

They dont jam anymore or work together on songs......fuck this granny band, this sell out- play your hits combo

[eviltimeban]

Every time I see this thread title I think something is happening on the 5th November.

Because America.