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Old 01-22-2023, 01:17 AM   #1
ninsp
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Default Billy’s such an asshole…

I can barely listen to an SP album anymore. All his bullshit talking down the past albums is exhausting.

Adore is so beautiful but I just know he thinks it’s a piece of shit or part of some convoluted Atum bullshit and it annoys me to no end.

 
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Old 01-22-2023, 01:23 AM   #2
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Plus, listening to the beautiful, delicate synths in Adore vs the synths in Atum is fucking terrible

 
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Old 01-22-2023, 01:25 AM   #3
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i only like james !

 
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Old 01-22-2023, 01:32 AM   #4
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i only like james !
Agreed. I have more appreciation for him than ever now that he’s clearly just here for a paycheck

 
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Old 01-22-2023, 03:28 AM   #5
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I've made it no secret how his shitty remarks towards SD have cut me a bit. I'm think I'm too shocked to be hurt, really. It's just so insane.

 
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Old 01-22-2023, 08:27 AM   #6
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He's got this mindset that if you don't like ALL of his work, including Atum, then you aren't allowed to like any of it. So he'll try to damage your enjoyment of the old albums out of spite.

You're either a sycophant and "To The Grays" changed your life, or you're an uNtr00 fan and he hates you.

Fuck that, the Billy that wrote the songs I like is not the Billy we see today.

 
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:25 AM   #7
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Wait until you find out Luna is the pet mandrill of an upcoming alien creature with 7 arms.


Siemese Dream is part of the sci-fi space opera as well. made obvious by the song "space boy"

 
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:41 AM   #8
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At some point Billy had to face a crossroads of acknowledging he was capable of making mistakes and being wrong about music, tracklistings etc. Part of the reason Machina (and to a lesser extent) Adore, were kneecapped is because Billy was playing passive aggressive games with the record companies - withholding tracks, that sort of thing.

He needed to accept he couldn't produce, that he needed other artists and industry professionals to help cultivate his image, package his art into a commercially viable and enjoyable experience.

Instead he chose to live in denial for the rest of his life. Using his business model expertise lol to coast just enough to focus on other interests whilst keeping cash cow moving. ATUM and Cyr are the band putting in the bare minimum and hoping for a payday from dumb fans. Billy cannot appraise ATUM critically because he thinks noodling on his bedroom synths is still some master craftsman channelling spiritual energy into art. And that schmucks will buy it to prop up his tea and wrestling businesses. It's kinda tragic tbh. But also deserved.

Any other band would be coining it in with high profile archive releases.

The run of Machina > Zwan > TFE > ZG > Teargarden seem to have completely broken him creatively, yet he doesn't have any idea what went wrong with them, outwardly blaming the fans, rather than just accept he cannot produce for shit and he was entirely wrong about the direction of those records in one form or another.

 
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Old 01-22-2023, 12:14 PM   #9
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why would billy accept his failure as a producer? He was producing the producers that made the great virgin era albums... he's onto some NEXT level shit.





actually billy should go back to the action that worked... what ever he wants to call it.
But I think if that was the case, it'd be revealed that no producer will touch billy. Why would they need that headache...? Unless you're a toad like Howard Willing

 
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Old 01-22-2023, 12:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VoxUpDoc View Post
At some point Billy had to face a crossroads of acknowledging he was capable of making mistakes and being wrong about music, tracklistings etc. Part of the reason Machina (and to a lesser extent) Adore, were kneecapped is because Billy was playing passive aggressive games with the record companies - withholding tracks, that sort of thing.

He needed to accept he couldn't produce, that he needed other artists and industry professionals to help cultivate his image, package his art into a commercially viable and enjoyable experience.

Instead he chose to live in denial for the rest of his life. Using his business model expertise lol to coast just enough to focus on other interests whilst keeping cash cow moving. ATUM and Cyr are the band putting in the bare minimum and hoping for a payday from dumb fans. Billy cannot appraise ATUM critically because he thinks noodling on his bedroom synths is still some master craftsman channelling spiritual energy into art. And that schmucks will buy it to prop up his tea and wrestling businesses. It's kinda tragic tbh. But also deserved.

Any other band would be coining it in with high profile archive releases.

The run of Machina > Zwan > TFE > ZG > Teargarden seem to have completely broken him creatively, yet he doesn't have any idea what went wrong with them, outwardly blaming the fans, rather than just accept he cannot produce for shit and he was entirely wrong about the direction of those records in one form or another.
yeah, this.

 
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Old 01-22-2023, 12:37 PM   #11
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yeah it's either this or Billy Corgan disappeared in '96 and the shapeshifter can't write for shit

 
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Old 01-22-2023, 12:43 PM   #12
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The 4 breaking up had everything to do with it, too. Even though the reasons have been hard to articulate.

 
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Old 01-22-2023, 01:16 PM   #13
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Or to put it simply, he was too arrogant or insecure to learn the right lessons from his failures.

Like everybody. EVERYBODY. gives him feedback on his vocals and mixing. He keeps doing it because “that’s what contemporary artists do”. Insanity.

 
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Old 01-22-2023, 02:23 PM   #14
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You're saying bunny think he ever made a bad album!? Hahahaha you funny

 
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Old 01-22-2023, 02:26 PM   #15
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I don’t think I can listen to the smashing pumpkins anymore

Discovering ‘the boy’ is what turned me from casual fan to super fan.. we are not the same

MCIS and adore are amazing works but billy doesn’t deserve any of the credit

He never would have gotten to that point without the other three

I am an Iha fan, I love his songwriting and sensibility, he never lost the magic despite always being pinned as the Debbie downer of the group

 
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Old 01-22-2023, 02:30 PM   #16
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ATUM needs no explanation… it’s the result of years of unchecked denial, cope, and narcissism

The best moments are when James pops in… he contributes small things because he knows it will shine thru the garbage

 
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Old 01-22-2023, 04:12 PM   #17
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yeah, i would love to track my SP listening vs atum rollout. i know i listen way less because it's just depressing knowing this is how it ends

 
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Old 01-23-2023, 05:02 AM   #18
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Sad to report that I also listen to the Pumpkins way less as a result of 2007-2023, Billy's actions both on and off the pitch. They were already a tough sell, and Billco isn't making it any easier.

The last time I felt really good about the band was probably the MCIS / TAFH reissues. The former genuinely recaptured some of the magic I felt hearing that record for the first time. It was mind-blowing to me.

 
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Old 01-23-2023, 10:17 AM   #19
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I've made it no secret how his shitty remarks towards SD have cut me a bit. I'm think I'm too shocked to be hurt, really. It's just so insane.
What did he say about SD? I haven't really been following any of it.

 
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Old 01-23-2023, 10:46 AM   #20
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In the UK, the Smashing Pumpkins are "1979", and maybe "Tonight, Tonight"... but anything else will make people back away with weird looks.

 
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Old 01-23-2023, 03:58 PM   #21
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What most infuriates me is when he asserts that if we yearn for his past sensibilities, then we fail to accept and embrace the evolution of him as an artist, and thus aren’t true fans of his.

And that is such a lazy cop out.

He preaches that the artist he was in the 90’s is the same artist resisting being told who to be in 2023. But while he is technically still the same human being with the same name, he is a fool to think that 25 years hasn’t changed him one bit.

It’s pretty simple: if he made music today that resonated with us, we’d like it. It really isn’t more complicated than that.

In the 90’s, he wrote songs about a lot of approachable, relatable topics and themes. And thus, we could find our favorites, connect with it, and have an emotional experience. But now, it’s one big Glass is Shiny is an astronaut is the secret power of a robot something something something. It’s been some time since we got a song that the common person could see themselves in. And that’s why the animosity exists: we yearn to connect again.

 
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Old 01-23-2023, 04:19 PM   #22
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back in the 90's he didn't own a wrestling league.

if he had, I don't think he would have won my ear. The kids that liked wrestling were NOT the kind of kids that I befriended. Wrestling represented a macho brawn - characteristics of my nemesis.

I could never imagine the kids that liked 3DoorsDown - Kryptonite as SP fans... yet here we are, that's what billy thinks of us.

 
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Old 01-23-2023, 04:41 PM   #23
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This thread could have been posted in 2001

 
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Old 01-23-2023, 05:38 PM   #24
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netphoria feels like being in a retirement home

we get dinner at 5, there's bingo, every christmas we play the video, we get an album to complain about every year

 
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Old 01-23-2023, 05:44 PM   #25
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i thought y'all still loved bill in the early 00s

 
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Old 01-23-2023, 05:45 PM   #26
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i know there's at least one thread commiserating on the [d]evolution of netpho's relationship w/ Billy somewhere in the an[n]als of this board

 
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Old 01-23-2023, 06:34 PM   #27
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the difference between rivers and billy is that while rivers is clearly a bad person, he has gone out of his way multiple times throughout his career to acknowledge such and make it abundantly clear that he's always working towards being better

billy pretends like he isn't a bad person by insinuating that the average person doesn't have the intelligence to realize that billy ISN'T a bad person, when in a reality he has done nothing but put a middle finger up at everyone who has ever helped him and to every one of his fans that he was lucky to have in the first place

plus rivers actually still cares about his songwriting in his 50s

i really am sick and tired of the smashing pumpkins. i have a lot to say about billy as of very recent and i might make a thread or i might just let myself grow distant from the idea of this band.

it would be morally questionable if james, jimmy, and to a lesser extent jeff were in the band currently for any other purpose than a paycheck

 
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Old 01-23-2023, 08:04 PM   #28
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I, for one, am interested in another thread trashing Billy

 
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Old 01-25-2023, 09:26 AM   #29
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My apologies, I was drunk as shit. Surprisingly good discussion came of it tho

 
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Old 01-25-2023, 09:35 AM   #30
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Is Adore so beautiful though?

 
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