What is the point of making choices if nothing lasts anyway?

[teh b0lly!!1]

Just wondering what's everyone takes on this are?

[mxzombie]

suffering exists, so it's worth it for the chance to avoid that.

[ilikeplanets]

Or the other side of that coin, in trying to do what makes you/others happy while you're here

[ilikeplanets]

For someone with my particular default mental state, inaction is worse than making a bad decision, especially over time

[topleybird]

If this is a reaction to the new James Webb telescope images, I understand.

I dunno, man, this isn't quite what you're asking but it's hard to justify believing in free will; our brains' neurons are made of the same atoms and shit as everything else, and everything outside of us pretty clearly obeys basic cause and effect rules, so why do we think we're special? Do you believe in a soul, one that can override the fundamental physics driving the entire rest of the universe? I guess I'd like to, but deep down, I don't think I do.

Hell, our brain often makes choices before "we" are conscious of it, and I'm talking much more complicated stuff than "jerk your hand back when it touches a flame"-level shit, so it's like, are we even making choices? Who is "we" at all?

Let's not even get into the implications of parallel dimensions, if that theory turns out to be true.

I think you've just got to decide what "matters" means to you. Do your choices matter to the universe as a whole? Absolutely not. To historians 1,000 years from now? Probably not. But to yourself, and to the people around you? Of course they do. Just be kind. There's meaning in that.

[smashingjj]

why do things have to last?

or, how long do things have to last in order to be worthwhile?

people seek happiness as some sort of state, something to achieve and then never let go. it's just moments of happiness though, mostly. as long as the rest of yr life isn't terrible, just a few spots of happiness can make a lot of difference

[smashingjj]

you can book me to speak for audiences

[ilikeplanets]

Originally Posted by topleybird

If this is a reaction to the new James Webb telescope images, I understand.

I am just enthralled with these pictures, and constantly wish some of my life choices and abilities had led me to a job with NASA

[Joey Goldberg]

post/av/name EXPLOSION

[yo soy el mejor]

better than sitting around like a goober!

[yo soy el mejor]

“People pay for what they do, and still more for what they have allowed themselves to become. And they pay for it very simply; by the lives they lead.”

FUCK

[Disco King]

I'm as depressed as they come, and yet I've never understood the idea that I'm supposed to be sad because the sun will explode in eight billion years or because we live on a tiny speck in the vast cosmos or whatever. Who cares?

I'm not sad because of things that will happen well after my lifespan or because I feel my life needs some cosmic significance. I'm sad because of things that do or don't happen within my own life, or maybe at most things that will happen within a span of 200 years of my birth or death (I'd be sad to learn from a fortune teller, for instance, that a little girl gets hit by a car and paralyzed for life, even if that even is to occur 10 days after I die; though I'd prefer it not to be the case, I feel less concern about being informed that somebody was brutally murdered in the year 1587, or that a solar flare sends humanity to the dark ages 10,000 years from now).

Things that make me sad are things like the thought that I will not be able to spend my life doing things I enjoy due to the crushing drudgery of work, or that I will die unfulfilled and never achieve what I want in life. I don't care about the fact that my sandcastle will be swept into the sea by a tide sometime in the future. I care about the fact that I may never get to visit and experience the beach in the first place.

[ilikeplanets]

I'm the same way, in terms of not feeling crushed by the enormity and complexity of the uncaring universe. My tiny monkey brain was successfully programmed in being selfish enough to mainly be concerned with my own pursuits, most of the time. I do, however, enjoy trying to stretch my brain into comprehending the scope of the universe and pretend to understand breakthroughs in physics.

[Disco King]

I feel a similar way to you, I think. Even if I don't attach this existential import to facts about the universe and how it works, I'm still fascinated by it and love learning about it.

There always is that initial sense of wonder when you learn a provocative fact about how the world around us works, and there's nothing wrong with that sense of wonder. It can often be the fuel to learn more. But I've met a lot of people who say things like "I'm not really that interested in physics or science in general, but I just like thinking about how we're all made of stars so we're, like, the universe experiencing itself, bro." I've never understood not having the urge to move beyond that initial sense of slack-jawed awe to actually wanting to get closer to understanding how it all works on a more engaged level. To be content with being dazed and stupefied by an astonishing piece of trivia, but not caring to learn more. To me, it's the actual sense of gaining more understanding that brings pleasure.

I mean, I'm not claiming that I'm particularly learned in this stuff. It's not like I'm a physicist or have a science degree or am even good at math. I'm not criticizing people for not all having the same interest in, say, physics and astronomy that some other people do (everybody likes something different, and there's no need to be interested in everything; I will probably never be interested in agricultural science despite how important and deep it is, for example). It's more just… the whole wanting nothing more than the sprinkles of whatever it is one is supposedly profoundly fascinated by; getting one's sense of enjoyment not from the satisfaction of deepening one's understanding, but from collecting stray platitudes. And also only being interested in things insofar as how they relate to oneself ("I wonder what the vastness of the cosmos says about my place in the universe and how much I matter." "I wonder what the constellations explain about my love life.") instead of just being interested in shit.

Funnily enough, some of my depression is related to the fact that I will likely never understand the things I want to understand. My understanding of things like, say, quantum physics is on the level of the "lies we tell to children" to simplify things for laypeople in pop-science literature, because the only way to get the best current understanding would be to master vector calculus, functional analysis, differential equations, and a bunch of other things I may never have the time to learn. Unlikely that I will have time to do that at this point in my life when I'm already doing my masters in another field I'm very interested in, and would probably have to do another bachelor's to ever get a grasp on math and physics. Looking back at the lost time of my undergrad and wishing I had made different choices. Looking at how responsibilities only increase with time, leaving less and less time each passing year to devote to doing all the things I want to do in life. It's one of the main reasons I don't ever want to have a family, but then I have to balance that with practical concerns like the fact that if I live long enough, I will spend the last decade of my life not surrounded by loved ones, but by overworked and burnt out care workers in an impersonal setting. But something seems cynical about the idea of getting married and having kids not because I legitimately want to, but as an investment plan to have some free caregivers when I become a geezer.

[Disco King]

Man, it's been a while since one of my Disco Walls.

[topleybird]

I Fucking Hate I Fucking Love Science

[ilikeplanets]

Originally Posted by Disco King

Funnily enough, some of my depression is related to the fact that I will likely never understand the things I want to understand. My understanding of things like, say, quantum physics is on the level of the "lies we tell to children" to simplify things for laypeople in pop-science literature, because the only way to get the best current understanding would be to master vector calculus, functional analysis, differential equations, and a bunch of other things I may never have the time to learn. Unlikely that I will have time to do that at this point in my life when I'm already doing my masters in another field I'm very interested in, and would probably have to do another bachelor's to ever get a grasp on math and physics. Looking back at the lost time of my undergrad and wishing I had made different choices. Looking at how responsibilities only increase with time, leaving less and less time each passing year to devote to doing all the things I want to do in life.

All of this resonates with me and my stupid English degree. Except instead of getting a Masters, I have two kids by myself. So I'll be forever too busy to delve deeply into those types of passions that I am not naturally talented in. If I can't be an astrophysicist, I can still be surrounded by loved ones. That's not lesser, and has always been an equally important goal in my life, although there's definitely an element of perpetual curiosity that I have to live with.

[Disco King]

Yeah, when we have equally important goals, sometimes we have to choose one over the other. And a loving family is as worthy a goal as any.

If I had it my way, I would be a musician astrophysicist philosopher comic-book artist/writer. I might not even be able to become one of those things, but even if I became extremely lucky and talented at time-management and succeeded at two, I would have some dissatisfaction about not succeeding at the others.

I respect people who raise families, though it's not a personal ambition of mine. Still, I feel there are going to be consequences for not having one.

[teh b0lly!!1]

I liked the idea of putting that question out there with no context, and seeing how people interpret it in a variety of different ways. i.e via prisms of depression, outer space, life's meaning, and so forth.

For me the question touches on like, why do we torment so much over curating an idealized version of ourselves to the world, collecting achievements, nurturing this enormous sense of importance in having to become skilled or desirable at something. To leave our mark in the eyes of others and ourselves.

In the modern age especially, our careers\occupations are the one thing that most defines our worth and value.

And I'm wondering, maybe it's all bullshit. Maybe skill, proficient as it may be, is only just that, a skill. Even the greatest human achievements were ultimately just fancy ways of passing time, if that makes sense. If reality is a constantly changing magnetic sketchy board thing, we (re: mankind) are a bunch of kids competing who can make the nicest diddley doodle before it all gets erased again in 10 seconds.

I'm grossly oversimplifying to pin down the point. Art and achievement, needless to say, are incredibly worthwhile, wonderful and important. I'm not making any claim otherwise. But it's also most definitely not the very objective of our existence. And I'm kind of sick of people acting like it is

[ilikeplanets]

I don't really believe there is an actual objective, hence my original answer of seeking personal happiness and spreading some, too. Seems like the best way to be in a situation with no inherent meaning.

[slunken]

Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1

For me the question touches on like, why do we torment so much over curating an idealized version of ourselves to the world, collecting achievements, nurturing this enormous sense of importance in having to become skilled or desirable at something.

That's why you gotta let it all hang out baby boy. As messy and as sloppy or as perfect and careful as you want. Be the most extreme version of yourself that you can be. You just have to close your eyes and throw the ball to send it spinning.

Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1

To leave our mark in the eyes of others and ourselves.

Man's entitlement and desire for immortality is a falsehood.

Originally Posted by mxzombie

suffering exists, so it's worth it for the chance to avoid that.

But some say life is suffering. So why avoid life? Being challenged or confronted with obstacles (ie - suffering) enables growth. Some do say that the meaning of live is the avoidance of suffering.

Being content is the most amazing feeling alive. Leisure is supremely underrated and under-utilized.

[slunken]

Ultimately I don't think our choices matter. It's how we resolve the outcome.

[teh b0lly!!1]

Fwiw

I didn't ask the question as a form of subtly suggesting nihilistic ideas. I see it as more like talking about a phenomenon. As in, how do you guys wrap your head around that fact in your own life?


There isn't really much more to it other than this, to be fair:

Originally Posted by slunken

Man's entitlement and desire for immortality is a falsehood.

but it's endlessly interesting to think about the questions.

These two are great

Originally Posted by topleybird

Hell, our brain often makes choices before "we" are conscious of it, and I'm talking much more complicated stuff than "jerk your hand back when it touches a flame"-level shit, so it's like, are we even making choices? Who is "we" at all?

Originally Posted by smashingjj

or, how long do things have to last in order to be worthwhile?

[teh b0lly!!1]

Originally Posted by mxzombie

suffering exists, so it's worth it for the chance to avoid that.

what slunk said

But also, it just doesn't seem like a way to live to me, to spend your life trying to avoid something

There's a highly graceful & heroic beauty in being fully present with life's pain and looking it in the eye as you're being devoured by it

[Disco King]

I don't think pain is valuable for it's own sake. The reason avoiding all pain tends to be bad is because it just so happens to be that many beneficial things are only attained after enduring some amount of suffering. Like how exercise is taxing, but I the displeasure felt while exercising is outweighed by the pleasure of being healthier that follows.

But if somebody invented some serum that allowed us to have all of the benefits of exercise without enduring any of the displeasure, then the pain of exercise would become useless.

There's no reason, in principle, to value pain. It just so happens to be that we haven't found a way to get all that we value without ever having to suffer, and so it also happens to be that, as things currently stand, it must be considered imprudent and short-sighted for one to avoid pains that would lead to pleasures that outweigh them.

[teh b0lly!!1]

I'm not saying pain itself is valuable, I'm saying it's unavoidable so might as well own it

[Shallowed]

i think about this sort of thing all the time but i'm terrible at compiling and putting it into words

so thanks Disco King for doing most of it for me

[teh b0lly!!1]

Originally Posted by slunken

Being content is the most amazing feeling alive. Leisure is supremely underrated and under-utilized.

+

One day I was watching an interview with a schizophrenic person and he was talking about the nightmarish afflictions of his psyche and suddenly he stopped and closed his eyes with pleasure and said 'omg this breeze feels so good'

I thought, "isn't that life in a nutshell"

The best we can really strive for in life is to keep ourselves in a state of comfort as much as possible. Constantly chasing orgasmic states of happiness is dumb and probably the byproduct of decades of capitalism stopping at nothing

[mxzombie]

Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1

what slunk said

But also, it just doesn't seem like a way to live to me, to spend your life trying to avoid something

There's a highly graceful & heroic beauty in being fully present with life's pain and looking it in the eye as you're being devoured by it

is it suffering if it's fulfilling? masochism (or the pleasure of working hard) is evidence that pain and suffering aren't always synonymous

[slunken]

Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1

There's a highly graceful & heroic beauty in being fully present with life's pain and looking it in the eye as you're being devoured by it

THE HERO'S JOURNEY!!!