What is your religion and why is it the worst?

[MyOneAndOnly]

I was raised in a mostly Catholic family. My parents are still very very Catholic. But by the time I was 17 I didn't believe any of it. I think maybe i never did. I was more afraid of Bigfoot at 11 years old than I ever was of the Christ God. Catholicism is the worst because it's an oppressive fairy tale used to control people. And also 2000 years of genocide and colonization of half the world by the Church.

Since childhood I've oscillated between Agnostic indifference and angry Atheism. Lately, I've come to embrace Norse Paganism (Heathenry). I approach it from an atheo-pagan perspective. I don't believe there is literally a one eyed Allfather riding around the world on an 8 legged horse. I view Norse mythology as an insightful way to relate to the natural world. Heathenism is an Animistic spiritual practice. It venerates ancestors, and recognizes spirit, or souls, or agency in the natural world. I view the gods and spirits as a metaphysical manifestation of the interconnectedness of all living things and our environment.

I also appreciate the ritual and practice of giving offerings to the gods and natural spirits, as a way to focus the mind on connections to the natural world which have been destroyed by modern economy and culture. Heathenry also is bound up in a veneration and respect for ancestors, be they by blood or by creed. This is also something that I think is important for the psyche, as it helps connect us to the past. Remembering and thinking of ancestors provides an existential rootedness to time.

Paganism is kind of the worst too because it's treated like a comic book in western popular culture. And most people think that Norse Pagans are all white supremacists (most are actually very lefty, and tend to be under 40 yrs old).

[vixnix]

I was raised by an angry atheist and an indifferent agnostic and now I’m Christian.

I didn’t hear the resurrection story until I was 14 despite both my grandfathers being church ministers (or maybe because of that..). Growing up I was most afraid of Freddy Krueger and Candyman. Too many sleepovers and horror movies

[smashingjj]

Fear is your only god!

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by vixnix

I was raised by an angry atheist and an indifferent agnostic and now I’m Christian.

I didn’t hear the resurrection story until I was 14 despite both my grandfathers being church ministers (or maybe because of that..). Growing up I was most afraid of Freddy Krueger and Candyman. Too many sleepovers and horror movies

yeah but why is it the worst?

[ilikeplanets]

Orthodox Judiasm is very sexist, and also halacha (rules) are unbending which can cause a lot of confusing inconvenience (or what looks like stupidity) for secular people. This is not specific to Judaism, but mirrors any fundamentalism. Jews are often pretty racist, which is actually the first unlikable thing I noticed around Bat Mitzvah age.

I grew up Conservative, but my Aunt and her large family are fully Orthodox so I had a heavy exposure to the highest level of observance. I tried schooling in their community during sophomore year of high school, since I was suffering a lot during that time in public school (this is right before my 12 year love affair with all the drugs, I came out and went fully the other direction still searching for relief). However, my faith in God, especially in those parameters, isn't strong enough for me to accept that "because God says so" is the final answer to questionable behavior.

I try my best to believe in some sort of benevolent force and higher order, or maybe it's universal connectedness, but I struggle with that and don't feel like I fit into any easily defined spiritual box. I recently read a book about some offbeat Jewish definitions of God, and the thought of having a less traditional interpretation while still maintaining positive tenants of Judiasm is appealing to me.

I am very culturally East Coast Jewish, and identify a lot with that lifestyle and mindset. I don't and never have correctly abided by Torah. I don't follow strict dietary laws or all the rituals for holiday observance (and I live too far from other Jews to properly do all the things, anyway), but I am highly aware of customs and Hebrew, and teach these to my daughters, who attend a casual Jewish Sunday school. I try to uphold mitzvot (good deeds), because I think the Jewish attitude of bettering the world is admirable. And I love all holidays so we definitely celebrate!

[ilikeplanets]

I wasn't afraid of God growing up, well not for myself. I was afraid of what God did to people who slaughtered the Jews. The Death of the First Born and Haman's execution upset me. I don't think that was the correct concern!! I was also scared of Hitler and Nazis.

[Elijah Moon]

Religion didn't really feature in my household. My mum was from a Catholic family and my father from a Protestant one, but neither was a fan of organized religion.

In school we learnt about Jesus and sang hymns and said the Lord's Prayer every morning. In infant school I was scared of going to the main hall for assembly, but I don't remember if that was anything to do with the hymns and prayers and Bible stories or if I just didn't like so many people in one place.

I do remember that when I was really young I had this conception of Jesus as an invisible boy who could watch me pee...

Later I had my own ideas about god and so forth, and I dabbled in different belief systems, including atheism and agnosticism.

These days I don't believe in a god in any traditional way, and I'm not religious in any deep sense, but for years I've been quite into Buddhism, more as a life philosophy and way of comprehending existence. I'm still open to new ideas.

[topleybird]

I believe that someone, or a group of someones, is watching me any time I look in a mirror, and so I never make goofy faces, and if I do something like drop my toothbrush I'll silently laugh and smile so they know I'm carefree and laughing with them at my klutziness

That's about it for me

[Disco King]

What other people mean when they use the word 'metaphysics': dude I think we're all like spiritually connected with nature and everything is one and if you put good vibes into the universe your aura changes and good things happen

What I think when I hear the word metaphysics: "is a statue identical with the clay that makes it up? Are groups identical with the set of their members? Is a song a concrete multiply-located object that is located everywhere it is played, or is it an abstract object that exists independently of any of its performances/recordings? Are causal relations nomologically necessary, or is causality just constant conjunction? Are there chairs, or just simples arranged chairwise?

[Disco King]

In other words, my religion is pedantic shit that should matter to no one

[ilikeplanets]

Nah friend, that shit matters the most

[MyOneAndOnly]

it does indeed matter

[ilikeplanets]

I am highly interested in science, particularly physics and astronomy. However, I don't view it as my "religion." And now this entire discussion feels empty and stupid, since whatever feelings I have about defining God pale in comparison to my feelings regarding figuring out our universe and reaching our full potential as humans. Thanks, Disco King!!

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

I am highly interested in science, particularly physics and astronomy. However, I don't view it as my "religion." And now this entire discussion feels empty and stupid, since whatever feelings I have about defining God pale in comparison to my feelings regarding figuring out our universe and reaching our full potential as humans. Thanks, Disco King!!

you can have science and have the ritual and community of religion. I've known more than a few atheist jews who've put on a damn good Sader.

[ilikeplanets]

Tell me about some epic Pagan/Heathen holidays. The stuff of legend!!

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

Tell me about some epic Pagan/Heathen holidays. The stuff of legend!!

I'm stealing the description below from a website for raising Pagan Kids:



This coming week is Sígrblót (aka Sommardag or Victoryblot). It is an ancient Heathen holiday falling on the fourth full moon after the winter solstice. This year's full moon begins on April 6, 2023.


Sígrblót is a pre-Christian celebration appointed by Odin in the Ynglinga Saga, stanza 8. It's here Odin lists three holidays we must celebrate with a blót:


1) Winternights/Vetrnætr

2) Yule/Jól

3) Sígrblót/Sommardag


Each of these major holidays falls on a full moon, following the lunar calendar (because in ancient times, people didn't have a calendar as we have now. They had to follow the phases of the moon, sun and/or seasonal changes. The Wheel of the Year did not exist for these people either).


In Sweden 'Goa' moon is called Goje Month/Moon, and in Iceland, it is called Goamanuthr (Goa Month/Moon).


This year Goa/Goje Moon falls on April 6-9 during the fourth full moon after the winter solstice.


Sígrblót is also mentioned in the Heimskringla Saga, stanza 77, as an age-old custom held in Uppsala, Sweden. This blót (sacrifice) would be given to the gods for peace and victory for their king. People would gather from all over Sweden for this.


Sígrblót would ******* a blót, drinking and feasting.


How To Celebrate Sígrblót
Now that we have the historical background covered, here is how can we celebrate such a historically significant occasion with our families:

1. Greet the sun on the first morning
Sígrblót is a three-day celebration that starts at first sun. Wake everyone up early to enjoy a favourite hot beverage and watch the sunrise.


2. Give an offering to honour your gods (and king, depending on your country)
This is your sacrifice. Traditionally the offering involves a blood sacrifice from an animal (boar, horse, or cow is common).

If your family practice is more modern, you may choose to sacrifice wine, mead or something else favoured by Odin and gods of fertility and harvest. You may also choose to sacrifice something prized by the family, like your first plant of the year, a sun-wheel you worked hard to craft, or food you worked hard to create.

The offering is typically spilled or placed on the ground or alter while verbally letting the god(s) know who it is for and why.

After the offering is given, you may leave it there or share it with your family.


3. Host a feast
Get your family together to enjoy a feast worthy of grandeur. The modern world has Easter, Thanksgiving and Christmas. Historic Heathens have Winternights, Yule and Sígrblót!


4. Play some sun-inspired games
In ancient times, different Norse villages had various sun-inspired games, from twirling round objects around on sticks to whipping them high into the sky or rolling down hills in wheels in a race against others (cartwheeling is probably safer). The wheels and circles were meant to represent the sun.


5. Dance around a maypole
The origin of the maypole is debated, but both Heathens and Christians definitely used it by the late Viking Age. The Heathen version is a vertical pole with ribbons attached to a circle at the top. The Christian version looks more like a cross. Today, people all over Europe continue to dance in circles holding the ribbon and weaving patterns around the pole.


6. Make Sunwheel Wishing Ships


For this, you will need twigs, straw, a body of water and fire :

Using straw or twig, craft a circle with a cross inside of it

- Weave a straight pole and attach it to the middle of your sunwheel like a ship mast
- Optional: Decorate it with flowers
- Place it on water like a boat
- Make a wish
- Set the mast on fire
- Watch it sail away in flames


7. Have a bonfire
The bonfire is meant to represent the ever-burning sun. Honour and enjoy it. Show the gods you're proud!


8. Enjoy a sumble (toasting drinks in honour of gods and ancestors)
A sumble involves giving a toast to ancestors and gods you want to honour. Each person is honoured through heartfelt words of appreciation, followed by the toaster drinking an entire drink in their memory.


9. Set goals for the summer
When Sigrblot was first celebrated, it was done for victory. Not many of us are sailing away to find land, trade merchandise or battle, but we can set goals for victory in other ways. One idea is running into battle to advocate for the planet to avoid our own Ragnarok. Whatever cause you think it worth battling for, the idea is to make the world a better place for our descendants.


10. Share stories of your favourite victories
Back in medieval times, there were many battles or wars to celebrate. Now few do, but we have personal battles we can be proud of overcoming. Focus on the bright side and celebrate your big and small victories!

[ilikeplanets]

Feasting, dancing, fire, and self-reflection. That's an unbeatable combination.

[MyOneAndOnly]

I have no heathen friends nearby. So my GF and I are going next week to the Olympic Penninsula. We're going to camp next to the beach and have a campfire. No blood sacrifice. But I'll offer Ale or Mead to Odin.

[Fonzie]

That sounds awfully third Reichy.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

That sounds awfully third Reichy.

the Nazis appropriated a bunch of Norse symbols. But they were Christians.

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by MyOneAndOnly

you can have science and have the ritual and community of religion. I've known more than a few atheist jews who've put on a damn good Sader.

I know more atheist Jews than not. I'd bet half the adults or more going to my friend's congregation are atheists. It's very common. Even I show up occasionally.

[redbreegull]

yeah there's a joke that goes around if you do Birthright in Israel... you'll never be on a bus with more atheists

[reprise85]

I do think Judaism is a pretty reasonable religion compared to Christianity and many others, but I don't see a compelling reason to think there's a God, so that kind of ruins the whole thing.

[redbreegull]

The Nazis were... kind of Christian. Hitler personally was not very interested in the occultic and religious aspects of the ideology, that was Himmler's thing, but it's probably more accurate to say a lot of Nazis were raised Catholic and carried Catholicism culturally IMO. The Nazi ideology was wholistic and attempted to revise the entire history of humanity, Earth, and the universe, right? The Christian elements are not something I would call a major defining characteristic of a group of people who believed the universe and all its creatures were made of ice as a creation story



key quote: "It's a bit odd that someone who didn't believe in Christianity would believe that the Holy Grail held some sort of power regardless, but it probably had something to do with [Himmler] being raised in a Roman Catholic household."

Guy then goes on to talk about Himmler's literal belief in and quest for Thor's Hammer, an artifact of ancient Aryan technology. So. There's a lot going on there. It's hard for me to see that as Christian in any kind of straightforward way

[ovary]

when i hear metaphysics i think "what does it mean for something to be? what is being?"

i am an animist, which means i think everything that exists (animals, rocks, streams, ideas, atoms, etc) is animated with an energetic spirit. everything is alive and possesses a self that is equivalent in quality (if different in expression and experience) to mine. the divine is the presence, commonality, and mystery of origin of this vital spirit. most nonmodern "indigenous" religions are animist more or less.

animism is the worst because when you tell people you are an animist you sound like a douchebag.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by ovary

when i hear metaphysics i think "what does it mean for something to be? what is being?"

i am an animist, which means i think everything that exists (animals, rocks, streams, ideas, atoms, etc) is animated with an energetic spirit. everything is alive and possesses a self that is equivalent in quality (if different in expression and experience) to mine. the divine is the presence, commonality, and mystery of origin of this vital spirit. most nonmodern "indigenous" religions are animist more or less.

animism is the worst because when you tell people you are an animist you sound like a douchebag.

I'm down with animism. I sounds way less douche than telling people they will burn in fires of sin if they think about sex. The first is a respect for the natural world. The later is a means of controlling people.

[Disco King]

Originally Posted by MyOneAndOnly

the Nazis appropriated a bunch of Norse symbols. But they were Christians.

The Black Sun is such a legitimately cool symbol that it sucks that Nazis stole it. We should re-appropriate it.

I'll be first to get a Black Sun tattoo, since nobody could possibly think I'm a Nazi. "Oh he's black and he likes the sun I guess." After my Asian, Latino, and Indigenous friends get theirs, it will be destigmatized enough for white people to sport it again.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

The Nazis were... kind of Christian. Hitler personally was not very interested in the occultic and religious aspects of the ideology, that was Himmler's thing, but it's probably more accurate to say a lot of Nazis were raised Catholic and carried Catholicism culturally IMO. The Nazi ideology was wholistic and attempted to revise the entire history of humanity, Earth, and the universe, right? The Christian elements are not something I would call a major defining characteristic of a group of people who believed the universe and all its creatures were made of ice as a creation story



key quote: "It's a bit odd that someone who didn't believe in Christianity would believe that the Holy Grail held some sort of power regardless, but it probably had something to do with [Himmler] being raised in a Roman Catholic household."

Guy then goes on to talk about Himmler's literal belief in and quest for Thor's Hammer, an artifact of ancient Aryan technology. So. There's a lot going on there. It's hard for me to see that as Christian in any kind of straightforward way

Nazi leaders wanted to appropriate a whole host of "germanic" myths and traditions. It's a way to claim primacy and argue that others are not true germans. The Eagle is a 2500 year old symbol that goes back to the Romans. German regimes for hundreds of years used it. Then the Nazis put it on everything. It became their masthead. The swastika is thousands of years old and an Indo European symbol. It dates to a period in time when proto European and Indian cultures had yet to diverge. It's still widely used in India. Nazi leadership appropriated it as a way to say "we were the first people".

while Himmler was off doing these things, if you were to talk to a typical German supporter of the Nazi party, they would have identified as Christian. The Party pushed an extremist right wing form of Christianity on the German people. I don't think very many Germans outside of the inner circle of the Nazi Party would have criticized the christian church as central to the national identity.

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by MyOneAndOnly

while Himmler was off doing these things, if you were to talk to a typical German supporter of the Nazi party, they would have identified as Christian. The Party pushed an extremist right wing form of Christianity on the German people. I don't think very many Germans outside of the inner circle of the Nazi Party would have criticized the christian church as central to the national identity.

That is true, but similarly most people who fought for the Confederacy did not do so for the ideological cause of saving slavery. But I think you're right, and I think that is probably a more important distinction than we generally recognize (the ideology of the elite vs. the motivation of those who follow them).

[redbreegull]

It's also psychologically interesting to dig into whether the appropriation and revisionism were just tactical or actually devoutly held beliefs. I think Himmler's evil occult castle of ancient artifacts and ritual sacrifice indicates that the professed Nazi "religion" was believed in a literal sense by some of those at the very top.

I have trouble seeing Nazi ideology as fundamentally Christian when it was 1) officially disavowed as much as the Communists disavowed it in Poland and everywhere else (does that make Polish communism Catholic since the layperson remained secretly faithful to the Church?) and 2) the appropriation and revisionism pull from more non-Christian sources than traditional Christian ones, not just Nordic but also Celtic, French and Welsh (Himmler loved King Arthur, a character who is both a Christian king or an anti-Christian tyrant depending on the text), Hindu, even Jewish (obsession with the David and Goliath story, the Ark of the Covenant, etc.) as well as myriad other fringe-to-blatantly-pseudo-scientific beliefs on all areas of life to create a complete alternative history of the world, which did not privilege Christianity, and certainly not Christ as a Jew, but only the Aryan race as the defining thread of goodness, accomplishment, and ingenuity for the entire history of humanity.