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Old 05-21-2021, 04:14 PM   #121
slunken
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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov View Post
I think this is a biggggg piece of it.

The 90s bands had to have somebody eventually step up to the arena stage. And Foo consistently put out at least one big single from each album then could bring on some guest big names and fill stages for three hours with songs that are really hard to dislike. It's damn hard to not love "Everlong", still.

But with all of the other bands falling apart/overdosing, somebody had to power through and keep selling records. And the nice guy Dave Grohl with the street cred of punk rock background into Nirvana makes him the perfect guy to do just that.

One other thought - I think that because of this string of "the last album had one good song" paired with big label money, they could do little gimmicky things to make the next album exciting even if the music wasn't fully so - double record with one electric one acoustic! Documentary about little venues! Recording in Dave's garage and you get a piece of the actual tape when you buy the album!

Good thread, good read, good minute to rewind and look back at the Foo discography on Wikipedia to do some play by play comparisons.

For shits and giggles, how about we do a side by side of their albums?


------------------------------------
Gish vs S/T: Same-ish production value. Dave had Nirvana to ride on, SP just had live shows and solid backing of Virgin once signed, but nothing prior to that. Gish sells 700k and S/T sells 1.4 million.

Siamese Dream vs Colour and the Shape: Biggest albums by both bands. Yet, Siamese Dream whips it wholehandedly. I think even as a SP Messageboard in 2021 guy, that's a safe statement. Siamese is just so much deeper, richer. Siamese sells 4.9 million and Colour sells 2.3 million.

MCIS vs Nothing Left to Lose: Perfect summary of this ridiculous exercise that I'm already questioning. Billy took a huge creative risk on Mellon Collie and Dave polished the hell out of Colour and put out "Learn to Fly". 'Nothing' is great, but it's miles away from Mellon Collie in terms of level of devotion from folks on the street today. Nobody ever says how Nothing turned them onto music and made them a music fan. My favorite album by both bands. MCIS sells 4.9 million and Nothing sells 1.3 million.

Adore vs One by One: Again, Billy goes out on a limb, Dave drills down into the same sound. Dave pulls out a few more singles that still are in setlists today, being played at the White House, etc. Billy puts out an album that most readers of this thread can sing 80% of the words to because it means something deeply to them. Granted, it's an SP messageboard, but still - Adore, by a mile. Adore sells 1.2 million and One by One sells 1.4 million.

Machina vs In Your Honor: Dave goes out on a limb here, but puts out a double CD that has one good song on it and 19 others that are WHOLLY forgettable. I remember being excited for In Your Honor, but it's just not good. I put it on earlier as I started writing this thread, and the acoustic album is even worse than the back half of the electric one. Machina is almost as long as a double album, rammed onto one 74 minute CD. And while it's bloated, it's got some great gems in there. Machina sells 607k and Honor sells 1.5 million. (That low Machina sales number surprised me.)

Zeitgeist vs Echoes, Silence, Patience and Grace: Somewhat similar here, both released in 2007. Bloated rock albums that really don't go anywhere or have anything truly original to say, when you strip away whatever degree of sentimentality I've got for "Stellar" and the optimism I scrounged up when my band reunited in 2007. Zeit sells 426k and Echoes does 915k. (Wish I knew what the average number of copies of Zeit per SP fan sold were - I know I ended up buying like 3?)

Oceania vs Wasting Light: Hmm. Not a lot to compare here. Oceania is Billy and Bam Bam and Co. and Dave gets Smear back, hits the garage, and writes an amazing album. Pretty stark comparison here, actually. One where I would handily give it to Foo. Wasting Light showed me that Dave can still do an album as solid as the first three. Oceania does 102k and Wasting Light does 602k.

Monuments vs Sonic Highways: Honestly haven't ever listened to Sonic Highways, despite watching a good chunk of the episodes of the show on HBO. Again, BC had nothing budgetary wise to help Monuments get seen/heard the way that Sonic Highways did. But is the quality of the songs THAT different behind the two? Sales figures drop off here.

SAOSBV1LPNPNFNS vs Concrete and Gold: Haven't ever done Concrete in full - but I can say that I'm NOT into that "The Sky is a Neighborhood" song that still shows up sometimes on the radio. Really don't think that these two are that different quality-wise.

Cyr vs Medicine at Midnight: Weirdly, this is kind of where this side by side thing started in my brain. When "Cyr" came out around the same time as "Shame Shame" it seemed like both bands were doing something more electronic-y and experimental. Difference there? SP had all of Adore, had a solid single with "Eye" and had done it before. For Dave, it seemed like it was a "well, we haven't attempted that yet" type deal. I've only listened to Medicine all the way thru once, which I guess is more than I can say for Cyr, despite the fact that I own Cyr; thing is just too damn long and too samey-samey.
----------------------------------------------------

Man, long post. Interesting mental exercise for me, sorry you had to sit through that.

Moral of the Story: SP needs to get inducted. My dad's favorite band are the Moody Blues, and they got dogged for years. I think I can see the same happening with Pumpkins. It's gonna be a minute before they get the recognition they deserve.

But by then, maybe there will have been enough time for the BC/Darcy thing to cool off, they can get the four of them on the stage together, icy hearts can melt with a warm rendition of Bullet and then maybe we'll get a little tour with the original four?
lmao holy shit man

 
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Old 05-21-2021, 04:15 PM   #122
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any chance we can get fuzzy back?

 
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Old 05-22-2021, 03:15 AM   #123
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Is that an extract from Billy’s memoir?

 
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Old 05-22-2021, 11:19 PM   #124
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To be honest, I don't think Foo Fighters are that great. Dave Grohl seems like a cool dude. I just find a lot of popular radio rock music pretty bland. Their first album has a couple good tracks. The first album has some edge. Then they became just your usual radio rock pop act. I lump them in with bands like Bush, plopping out the same unchallenging rock. Not many rock bands can keep their edge. I don't hate them or anything. I just personally wouldn't seek out to put on an album by them. I just don't find their stuff that special.

 
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Old 05-23-2021, 10:07 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by MyKeyZ View Post
To be honest, I don't think Foo Fighters are that great.
i know this took a lot of courage to admit & i applaud you for it

truly

 
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Old 05-24-2021, 12:29 AM   #126
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yeah, that must have been tough.

we're here for you, MyKeyZ

 
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Old 05-24-2021, 12:40 AM   #127
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yes we are

unlike world-reknowned ASSHOLE Dave Grohl who didn't even put known scribe & generational savior William Patrick into his little documentary about Chicago hot dogs or whatever

#DaveGrohlDoesntCareAboutYou


 
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Old 05-24-2021, 12:58 AM   #128
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Old 05-26-2021, 01:26 PM   #129
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Can anyone in this thread tell me when Billy Corgan last made a truly great album? Or even an above average album? Dave Grohl and Trent Reznor have maintained a certain standard for decades now.

I'm not really into Foo Fighters, but he's been doing his thing for awhile now, getting out from the shadow of Kurt for his entire life, filling stadiums, making music. Trent has been winning Oscars and Emmys, changing the landscape of the industry, all while staying true to himself but also evolving gracefully.

Billy's been whining about nobody worshipping him like it's still 1995 without ever giving anyone a reason to do so. I'm something of a Zeitgeist apologist, but one universally maligned album in a sea of flaming shit in two decades is not exactly impressive.

Also Robert Smith put out Bloodflowers over a decade past his prime. Billy has not released a Bloodflowers tier album since Machina. And The Cure were consistently solid from 1979-1992, putting out several more albums than BC in the same number of years. Shit, even 4:13 Dream is better than anything Billy's released post Machina, and that was in 2008. Would a .200 hitter with a bunch of home runs get into the Baseball Hall of Fame? No. Could a guy who hit consistently hit .270 for 15-20 years get in? Yeah.

Billy Corgan is this guy : https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...dunnad01.shtml

2 all-star seasons

Robert Smith is this guy: https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...andbry01.shtml


tl;dr - no one care

Last edited by killtrocity : 05-26-2021 at 01:41 PM.

 
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Old 05-26-2021, 05:27 PM   #130
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Billy may be an imperfect person who can't recognize his best qualities to save his life, and despite lots of lip service refuses to properly acknowledge the other Pumpkins for their contributions. Despite all of that, his output is light years ahead of where Dave or Trent will ever be. Dave could never deliver and Trent is just a creep.

 
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Old 05-26-2021, 09:43 PM   #131
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Lol

Trent is precisely where Billy wishes he was, & has been for like 15-20 yrs

& Dave's not far off

 
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Old 05-26-2021, 09:52 PM   #132
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They may happen to be more high profile artists at this point in time, but that doesn't mean they're anywhere close to SP quality.

 
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Old 05-26-2021, 10:01 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Joey Goldberg View Post
Lol

Trent is precisely where Billy wishes he was, & has been for like 15-20 yrs

& Dave's not far off

 
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Old 05-26-2021, 10:07 PM   #134
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Old 05-27-2021, 02:56 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by killtrocity View Post
Can anyone in this thread tell me when Billy Corgan last made a truly great album? Or even an above average album? Dave Grohl and Trent Reznor have maintained a certain standard for decades now.

I'm not really into Foo Fighters, but he's been doing his thing for awhile now, getting out from the shadow of Kurt for his entire life, filling stadiums, making music. Trent has been winning Oscars and Emmys, changing the landscape of the industry, all while staying true to himself but also evolving gracefully.
I would honestly say that his last great one was Machina. Obviously it's shrouded in teenage sentimentality for me, but that was the last one in my book.

On Foo - 'been doing his thing for awhile now' is a pretty good summary of my long ass thread. Dave just hasn't done anything that different ever - because he can't. His songwriting depth isn't anywhere near as deep as that of BC. Shit, man: give me ONE song from his catalog that is anywhere as good as "To Forgive". There's just not. He gets about as deep/pretty as "Walking After You" or "Next Year". And while as said before, yeah - I like the Foo Fighters and bought a bunch of their stuff - it's just fundamentally not as good, to GreenGlynis' point... despite maybe having a longer, more consistent run. Maybe.

On NIN - I don't dislike them and will wholly admit that I'm not nearly as versed in them as SP, but it's a one trick pony. Angsty electronic stuff with lyrics that are throughout the entire catalog as deep as about as shallow as Corgan ever gets, ie: "An Ode to No One", save the 'runaround girls in get-go cars' breakdown, as that is definitely outside of Trent's range.

That said, will def give you the soundtrack thing. Trent does cool stuff there, and has definitely found a different horse that isn't the black NIN horse.

 
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Old 05-27-2021, 04:25 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov View Post
Recording in Dave's garage and you get a piece of the actual tape when you buy the album!
That whole era made my eyes roll.

Dave was constantly harping on about how they made the album "on tape" and "in his garage" like a "real rock album". When literally all he did was move a multi-million dollar studio into his home.

 
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Old 05-27-2021, 05:42 AM   #137
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did someone just say Billy is an imperfect person?


me & clay will find you and beat the shit out of you!

 
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Old 05-27-2021, 05:58 AM   #138
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clay and I*

 
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Old 05-27-2021, 09:32 AM   #139
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you're welcome to join in yes!

 
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Old 05-27-2021, 10:06 AM   #140
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thanks

 
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Old 05-27-2021, 10:52 AM   #141
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That whole era made my eyes roll.

Dave was constantly harping on about how they made the album "on tape" and "in his garage" like a "real rock album". When literally all he did was move a multi-million dollar studio into his home.
And what's funny is that album still sounds compressed and Pro Tools'd to hell.

 
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Old 05-27-2021, 10:59 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
And what's funny is that album still sounds compressed and Pro Tools'd to hell.
It's easily their best if you don't look at the first three. And even if you do, I think there's some arguments that it edges out one or two of those. It's not garage-y sounding, but nonetheless, it does have some great jams on there.

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Old 05-28-2021, 02:21 AM   #143
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that's a good point and also i think it should be noted CYR is the best Smashing Pumpkins album ever if you don't look at anything pre-Shiny (but also, including Shiny)

 
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Old 05-28-2021, 02:39 AM   #144
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Cyr is the best “smashen punkins” album

That came out in 2020

 
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Old 05-28-2021, 02:41 AM   #145
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But mostly it’s insffuerable big willie vocal over passable synth soundscapes, with some flashes of the subtlety of which both jim/jim are capable, despite big willies musical halitosis

 
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Old 05-28-2021, 05:27 PM   #146
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Dave Grohl's Foo Fighters entire catalogue sold less records than this one album, where he was just the drummer of the band:



Not really a qualification for any "Hall of Fame" -beside their generic noise...

 
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Old 05-28-2021, 06:41 PM   #147
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flagged

 
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Old 05-28-2021, 09:00 PM   #148
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he was still part of the record so i don't really see your pOH SHIT IT'S A CORGAN'S BLUFF POST, NEVERMIND GUYS. NEVERMIND.

 
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Old 05-30-2021, 11:56 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Corgan's Bluff View Post
Dave Grohl's Foo Fighters entire catalogue sold less records than this one album, where he was just the drummer of the band:
It's 2021 though. Band greatness is measured in Tick Tocks per hour.

 
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