Odds of an Iha track on the new 33 song beast?

[Raskolnikov]

Title pretty much says it all, but...

If there isn't at least ONE Iha vocal track on this new monstrosity that is coming our way soon than it's going to be downright insulting.

There should have been one on SAOSBV1LPNPNFNS - but if they do a 33 song sequel to MCIS and there ain't one single James song on there, then that just sucks.

[Butt Pope]

Is James even recording with them?

[GreenDogGlynis]

It doesn't seem very likely. If the past few years are any indication, James is back to reap the financial rewards of what he helped build, and to make some type of peace with Billy. Nothing wrong with either.

Personally, I think it would be very surprising if James had beyond a perfunctory role in the album. Despite the fact that they're back on speaking terms. Billy and Jimmy seem all too happy to pretty much pretend like James was never in the band or was barely there. From what I can remember, of the past year's worth of interviews Billy has done solo or with Jimmy, James is never mentioned other than that he was present on a tour or something. I counted maybe 1 or 2 times he was name was even mentioned at the Gish event, and in Billy's last podcast interview there were more passive aggressive swipes at James and D'arcy. 9 times out of 10 in post 2018 interviews, all Billy gives James credit for is supporting Billy. The only time I can recall anything different was the James softens the metal comment he made while talking to Lars.

It's too bad James refuses to talk, it would be interesting to know how he feels that Billy and Jimmy still won't give him proper credit all these years later for his contributions. Especially after he reached out to Billy to bury the hatchet. Given all of that, James songs seem unlikely, but I do hope he'll have a few on the album. It's not impossible.

[VoxUpDoc]

I hope James saves his songs and puts out another album as the true Pumpkins successor.

[T&T]

james talking won't really improve the bands public image much. he knows it's a billy show, and it's always been a billy show with supporting actors. The success of the 90's does fall on James being an important supporting actor, but two decades later, He knows how little he needs to do to keep cashing a check and knows that anything extra is just going to be futile.
SP fame in 2021 - lets get real, it's NEVER going to be what it was in the 90's.

[paranoid]

Originally Posted by GreenDogGlynis

It doesn't seem very likely. If the past few years are any indication, James is back to reap the financial rewards of what he helped build, and to make some type of peace with Billy. Nothing wrong with either.

Personally, I think it would be very surprising if James had beyond a perfunctory role in the album. Despite the fact that they're back on speaking terms. Billy and Jimmy seem all too happy to pretty much pretend like James was never in the band or was barely there. From what I can remember, of the past year's worth of interviews Billy has done solo or with Jimmy, James is never mentioned other than that he was present on a tour or something. I counted maybe 1 or 2 times he was name was even mentioned at the Gish event, and in Billy's last podcast interview there were more passive aggressive swipes at James and D'arcy. 9 times out of 10 in post 2018 interviews, all Billy gives James credit for is supporting Billy. The only time I can recall anything different was the James softens the metal comment he made while talking to Lars.

It's too bad James refuses to talk, it would be interesting to know how he feels that Billy and Jimmy still won't give him proper credit all these years later for his contributions. Especially after he reached out to Billy to bury the hatchet. Given all of that, James songs seem unlikely, but I do hope he'll have a few on the album. It's not impossible.

bunch of nonsense.

yes, james is recording.

james lives in LA. BC and JC are in Chicago. they all have kids. there's still a pandemic going on, hence his absence from recent events. it's all that simple.

yes, james get's checks. they all do. so what. perhaps james has no interest in having his gish era face plastered on a cheap tote bag. why read into it more than that?

[GreenDogGlynis]

Originally Posted by paranoid

bunch of nonsense.

yes, james is recording.

james lives in LA. BC and JC are in Chicago. they all have kids. there's still a pandemic going on, hence his absence from recent events. it's all that simple.

yes, james get's checks. they all do. so what. perhaps james has no interest in having his gish era face plastered on a cheap tote bag. why read into it more than that?

I'm aware James lives in LA, and that Jimmy shows up at Billy's events/interviews out of courtesy. I don't think it is unreasonable to say James is almost never mentioned for his musical contribution, as both him and D'arcy are usually only mentioned as being present on tour, or anecdotes like D'arcy's can of hairspray was used on Cupid de Locke. If James is acknowledged at all by Billy, it is always in the context that James supported Billy's musical ambitions and experimentations, but almost never for the actual contributions he made. Also, Billy still makes comments about how James was/is not a very technical guitar player, and even during the last interview was talking about how back in the day he could do things that other band members couldn't do, and we all know he's not referring to Jimmy. While there's probably truth in all of this, it doesn't change the fact that Billy's graciousness towards James hasn't improved all that much despite the reconciliation, it's simply gotten more polite and civil. Given that and the fact that James lives halfway across the country, it does make it seem unlikely that he'll have a noticeable presence on this album. But I could be totally wrong, and it is certainly possible he'll have a song on there to keep in the Mellon Collie tradition.

[T&T]

Which synth part do you think James wrote/played on CYR?

[Joey Goldberg]

odds of a GOOD song on this 33 track yeast?

[paranoid]

james plays more guitar on cyr than he does on siamese dream.

[GreenDogGlynis]

While that may be true James was still in that parking garage room with the band for endless hours helping to craft the SD songs. Butch may have edged James out of the studio but that doesn't mean he's not on that record. I thought Cyr was good but it felt more like Billy had crafted the songs on his own and then just told James to add a little guitar here and there.

[Joey Goldberg]

Originally Posted by paranoid

james plays more guitar on cyr than he does on siamese dream.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ImpishFirm...ly-max-1mb.gif

[MyKeyZ]

If I was James, I wouldn't show up for the Gish 30th either, especially since Billy has spent all these years diminishing James' part in the band. Why would he show up for an album celebration for an album Billy claims he had no part of? I think James not being there speaks volumes. I doubt he does much work on the new material anyway. He's there to perform live so Billy can book shows under the original lineup gimmick. I also don't think James would go along with the whole Billy playing a character and his rewriting of history.

Soon Billy is gonna claim the boxset reissue notes denying James and D'arcy's involvement wasn't written by Billy, but his character persona. It was all part of a bigger joke.

[trev]

didn't james officially co-write i am one?

[paranoid]

y'all looking way too far into this. all speculation without a lot of merit.

[T&T]

What's the deal with deciding "it'll be 33 songs"... like he's gonna pad it with filler just to hit his magic numner.

or we'll get an album with 11 tracks. "changed my mind along the way///it's the lables fault."

[eviltimeban]

The fact that at the outset he's saying "33 songs" leaves little room for anyone coming in halfway with a new song. Unless Billy is prepared to drop one of the other ones, but then that messes up the whole point of having 33 songs!

[VoxUpDoc]

He’s only saying 33 songs to fool sad machines who’ll think this means it was “a sine!!!11” and this was all planned since MCIS. He doesn’t have 33 written songs. Definitely not 33 good songs.

It’s tragic.

[New Art Rioter]

Originally Posted by VoxUpDoc

He’s only saying 33 songs to fool sad machines who’ll think this means it was “a sine!!!11” and this was all planned since MCIS. He doesn’t have 33 written songs. Definitely not 33 good songs.

It’s tragic.

Think it's going to fit in well with something like Cotillions where he's written a ton of songs but the hit rate isn't great meaning the end product is super patchy. That'll be best case, worst case is that it's like Cyr and it's not good throughout. Would love it to take me by surprise and be unexpectedly great though!

[This is a username crisis.]

What makes you think James gives a shit about having his songs on SP albums anymore? There was a point where he had a George Harrison thing going on when the SP was a representation of all band members, but James doesn't even have Let It Come Down on Apple Music. Now its just show up...get paid...go home to family. The band is just a means to support his lifestyle. See also: Jimmy.

[brothahi4L]

In my opinion Iha´s input is going to be minimal.

I assume he isn´t even regularily involved into the whole (recording) process. Bolly the dictator hasn´t spoken positively in the past years.

If I was James I wouldn´t give a fuck either.

It´s like Zeitgeist - Crogan und Jimbo - ah and jeffly adding some bends and hammer ons.


It has always been a one man show, but he needs Jim, cause he can´t play the drums. If bully could play drums he would do it all alone.

Glad Iha stays chilled and just cashes the check for just being there

[This is a username crisis.]

Originally Posted by brothahi4L

It has always been a one man show, but he needs Jim, cause he can´t play the drums.

I can't believe this opinion still exists despite the past 20 years proving otherwise.

[GreenDogGlynis]

Originally Posted by Funbags

I can't believe this opinion still exists despite the past 20 years proving otherwise.

Agreed 100% it's obvious SP was a band in the true sense. You take 1 one of the members out and it doesn't work. It's amazing that Billy tries to convince us otherwise. While I get that Billy may be the one writing the songs and may be the most technical musician, it doesn't change the fact that every member of that band is needed to succeed, and therefore are equals to Billy.

The reason Billy can get away with this narrative is because there's not anyone to challenge it. James refuses to talk, even on that friendly podcast he was on with him and Jimmy as guests it was pretty much impossible to get him to answer softball questions. Then we only hear D'arcy speak every 8-10 years, otherwise she's totally disappeared. Had the others been more vocal or stuck around music post breakup Billy's narrative would have been checked a long time ago.

[Disco King]

Odds of a Corgan track on the new 33-song album?

And by that I mean, what are the odds that this 33-track album doesn't turn out to actually be a zero-track album because it is never coming out?

[T&T]

Originally Posted by GreenDogGlynis

The reason Billy can get away with this narrative is because there's not anyone to challenge it. James refuses to talk

numbers don't lie... James has nothing to explain.
Anyone with a clue has known since ADORE that SP as a variation of a billy solo project won't have the right recipe for success.

[Forgotten Child]

Originally Posted by T&T

numbers don't lie... James has nothing to explain.
Anyone with a clue has known since ADORE that SP as a variation of a billy solo project won't have the right recipe for success.

Weird statement as Machina had more James, James + Billy songs than Adore. Go and Innosense Vs Summer

[T&T]

Machina lacked d'arcy's input.

IMHO she was essential in shutting down some of billy's ideas (for the better of the band). Let billy loose with his lame ideas and we end up with wresting storylines.

[Butt Pope]

Originally Posted by Butt Pope

Is James even recording with them?

Does anyone know the answer to this?

[Raskolnikov]

Originally Posted by Funbags

What makes you think James gives a shit about having his songs on SP albums anymore? There was a point where he had a George Harrison thing going on when the SP was a representation of all band members, but James doesn't even have Let It Come Down on Apple Music. Now its just show up...get paid...go home to family. The band is just a means to support his lifestyle.

Nutty on the LICD not on streaming services thing - but sometimes it's a label/contractual problem. See: Zwan, Zeitgeist.

Anyways, valid point. I guess my reason for wondering that is that it would just break up the flow of 33 (!!!?) songs a little bit and give it a feel of something like a MCIS or a Machina.

I realized this past week that I hadn't listened to about 8/12 of the songs on Cyr. And that says a lot since, frankly, I'm still here, so... yeah, I'm a SP guy. But the thing is just too damn long. It really, really should have been a 40 minute thing with ten songs. By the time you get to the back half and it gets deep, I just am over it. And then when the songs pale to the pale tracks on Side A... there's just no motivation to slog through stuff like "Save Your Tears" or "Telegenix".

It was at that moment that I got legitimately concerned about this same syndrome, but THIRTY THREE songs of it.

I could see this thing happening.

[eviltimeban]

33 songs would be ok if it were 3 11-track albums. That would be easier to digest.

No one, I mean no one, is going to sit down and listen to all 33 tracks in a row, and enjoy it. It's impossible to be objective after that length of time.