What is the point of making choices if nothing lasts anyway?

[slunken]

Originally Posted by Disco King

There's no reason, in principle, to value pain. It just so happens to be that we haven't found a way to get all that we value without ever having to suffer, and so it also happens to be that, as things currently stand, it must be considered imprudent and short-sighted for one to avoid pains that would lead to pleasures that outweigh them.

yea but this questions 'what is pain'

is discomfort pain?

is challenging yourself pain?

[slunken]

Originally Posted by mxzombie

masochism (or the pleasure of working hard)

is that your definition of masochism????

or did you mean it like - "mascochism and also the pleasure of working hard"

[slunken]

because the pleasure derived from a hard day's work is certainly absolutely not masochism lol

[teh b0lly!!1]

It's funny you know, ppl automatically assign dark meanings to this thread but to me the idea in question seems liberating more than anything else.

It's like hey, you know what, everybody can stop killing themselves trying so hard all the time. It frames things in a way that really deemphasizes all the kind of crap we spend our everyday lives chasing.

kind of relativism and transcendentalism mixed together. It's all just stuff, and nothing is inherently more important than anything else, so just go out there and, as the edgiest kids in school say, dance like no one's watching.

[yo soy el mejor]

Originally Posted by slunken

because the pleasure derived from a hard day's work is certainly absolutely not masochism lol

depends on how you look at it. it does seem masochistic to do anything to ourselves that causes pain, but there is a pleasure in working hard both physically and cognitively--even if it's "painful". i may feel beat after a run or workout (pained, even) but it still feels good (both in the moment and working toward an ongoing goal)

like tommy said, suffering and pain are not synonymous.

[teh b0lly!!1]

Lightbulb What is the point of making choices if nothing lasts anyway?

btw
correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is what permanently broke mark kozelek

[ilikeplanets]

Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1

It's funny you know, ppl automatically assign dark meanings to this thread but to me the idea in question seems liberating more than anything else.

It's like hey, you know what, everybody can stop killing themselves trying so hard all the time. It frames things in a way that really deemphasizes all the kind of crap we spend our everyday lives chasing.

kind of relativism and transcendentalism mixed together. It's all just stuff, and nothing is inherently more important than anything else, so just go out there and, as the edgiest kids in school say, dance like no one's watching.

Well, you did ask us for reasons!

[slunken]

Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1

btw
correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is what permanently broke mark kozelek

bro that's why you must become water

[teh b0lly!!1]

if Bruce Lee knew so much about becoming water than why he ded

[slunken]

trying to actively mt rushmore yourself into permanent existence is psycho behavior

[slunken]

Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1

if Bruce Lee knew so much about becoming water than why he ded

true, true

[slunken]

[vixnix]

Have chewed over so many tentative replies to this question.

I’ve struggled a lot with this question. Now I see my nearly 17 year old struggling with it. He has some once-in-a-lifetime opportunities on the table, to do things most people can only dream of. But he’s changed a lot since he broke up with his last girlfriend. He wants to be happy and to be left alone and I think he doesn’t see value in many of the things he did before. Because none of those things he worked so hard for could prevent the break up.

So I think the point of making choices for a lot of us is to secure love from other people that is equal to the love we know we could give another person, maybe

Though when we haven’t had a lot of experience loving someone over a long period of time, we probably have a kind of idealistic view of what love is. It took me several relationships of making mistakes before I had the knowledge and perspective to sustain my current relationship. We’ve been together 18 years now. And it won’t last, not forever. One of us will die even if neither one of us leaves the other. But we both make choices to stay together, all the time, every day. And even though it won’t last forever, the point of making those choices is to be together as long as we can.

Careers, social recognition, I wonder if it all comes down to being loved. We make choices that we think will inspire people to love us, and inspire one person in particular to love us better than everyone else

Damn selfish genes, maybe.

[vixnix]

I remember floating that idea in a philosophy tutorial at university after reading The Mating Mind, and inspiring heated responses from a few young men who were adamant that their artistic endeavours and professional goals were about way more than just getting chicks or whatever

And I remember thinking, well, that’s what they would say because that’s how it appears to them. But it doesn’t necessarily mean that’s what it’s about at its most base level

[vixnix]

I remember piecing myself back together after my worst heartbreak, which had landed me in hospital for a few weeks involuntarily

I asked myself this question about choices and meaning so many times. Eventually I threw all my other uni study aside and switched to become a philosophy major because I couldn’t figure out how to live my life at all, without answering what seemed to be these fundamental questions

It’s so eerie seeing my son go through that same process. I gave him Alain De Botton’s the Consolations of Philosophy as a gift. Now he wants to study philosophy at university when he goes

And I don’t know how to say- you won’t get any of the answers there, that you’re going for. You’ll just end up having to read a bunch of stupid shit like Kant

[vixnix]

Sorry. That was all too much

[ilikeplanets]

Originally Posted by vixnix

Though when we haven’t had a lot of experience loving someone over a long period of time, we probably have a kind of idealistic view of what love is.

I'm not trying to hyper focus on this, or to be cynical because a lot of your sentiments are lovely, but I think teenage hormones/brain circuitry have a lot to do with this, too.

[slunken]

for me it's this appealing mix of raw emotion and tight, professional delivery and production.

[cork_soaker]

rain

[cork_soaker]

& metal

[slunken]

Originally Posted by vixnix

So I think the point of making choices for a lot of us is to secure love from other people that is equal to the love we know we could give another person, maybe

yooooooooooooo

[slunken]

Originally Posted by vixnix

Careers, social recognition, I wonder if it all comes down to being loved. We make choices that we think will inspire people to love us, and inspire one person in particular to love us better than everyone else

that's what's up

[slunken]

[slunken]

i mean there's certainly some self-responsibility that must be going on

at it's heart you're exactly right, but we're not peacocks (are we?) whose sole purpose is to project a life (whatever life that may be) to court a mate are we?

like a part of me feels like you're saying that unless i'm trying to be loved then there's no reason why i should reside in total abasement. that's to say that man is immoral when left alone.

i don't think man is inherently immoral.

just thinking out loud

[run2pee]

Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1

It's funny you know, ppl automatically assign dark meanings to this thread but to me the idea in question seems liberating more than anything else.

It's like hey, you know what, everybody can stop killing themselves trying so hard all the time. It frames things in a way that really deemphasizes all the kind of crap we spend our everyday lives chasing.

kind of relativism and transcendentalism mixed together. It's all just stuff, and nothing is inherently more important than anything else, so just go out there and, as the edgiest kids in school say, dance like no one's watching.

nice

universal life acceptance

u are a learned one, thanks for these tips

faves

[teh b0lly!!1]

Originally Posted by cork_soaker

rain

Originally Posted by cork_soaker

& metal

[Elphenor]

myth of Sisyphus

[yo soy el mejor]

is that a new rock band?

[teh b0lly!!1]

Originally Posted by vixnix

Have chewed over so many tentative replies to this question.

I’ve struggled a lot with this question. Now I see my nearly 17 year old struggling with it. He has some once-in-a-lifetime opportunities on the table, to do things most people can only dream of. But he’s changed a lot since he broke up with his last girlfriend. He wants to be happy and to be left alone and I think he doesn’t see value in many of the things he did before. Because none of those things he worked so hard for could prevent the break up.

So I think the point of making choices for a lot of us is to secure love from other people that is equal to the love we know we could give another person, maybe

Though when we haven’t had a lot of experience loving someone over a long period of time, we probably have a kind of idealistic view of what love is. It took me several relationships of making mistakes before I had the knowledge and perspective to sustain my current relationship. We’ve been together 18 years now. And it won’t last, not forever. One of us will die even if neither one of us leaves the other. But we both make choices to stay together, all the time, every day. And even though it won’t last forever, the point of making those choices is to be together as long as we can.

Careers, social recognition, I wonder if it all comes down to being loved. We make choices that we think will inspire people to love us, and inspire one person in particular to love us better than everyone else

Damn selfish genes, maybe.

Originally Posted by vixnix

I remember piecing myself back together after my worst heartbreak, which had landed me in hospital for a few weeks involuntarily

I asked myself this question about choices and meaning so many times. Eventually I threw all my other uni study aside and switched to become a philosophy major because I couldn’t figure out how to live my life at all, without answering what seemed to be these fundamental questions

It’s so eerie seeing my son go through that same process. I gave him Alain De Botton’s the Consolations of Philosophy as a gift. Now he wants to study philosophy at university when he goes

And I don’t know how to say- you won’t get any of the answers there, that you’re going for. You’ll just end up having to read a bunch of stupid shit like Kant

These are lovely answers.

It's wild that your kids are now 17 year olds starting to become puzzled by life's mysteries. I still remember posts about them from when they were maybe 10 yo or possibly younger.

These posts got me thinking a lot about how despite socialization keeps on trying to shove down our throat that humanity in fact IS one-size-fits-all, every single soul on the planet really is an entire world unto themselves. It's too mind boggling to think about, that every person has their own completely unique life. We all need to make so many decisions, explore so many things, figure out our identity through so many little things. It's all tremendous and seeing your son take on that road, I imagine that must be quite heavy.

I'm not having kids, but I love my nephews to death, and the oldest one is like 12 and he's only juuuust starting to get "it" ever so slightly, and you just wish you could spare them all the lifelong struggles that they cannot not have. But if we're being honest, a person without struggles is usually not anybody worth knowing anyway.

[teh b0lly!!1]

Btw, your sentiment on what is love (****baby don't hurt me****) is beautiful and touching, and I do agree, but at the most bottom line, hopefully without this seeming too dark, I think there's something profoundly lonely about life, almost tragically so, especially human life, especially modern human life. It is ultimately a solo adventure. We're all "alone".