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Old 10-23-2012, 06:59 PM   #121
reprise85
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Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son View Post
never steal from your friends. it will harm your reputation, and cause others not to trust you.
that's not a moral code. it's a cost benefit analysis

 
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:13 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
that's not a moral code. it's a cost benefit analysis
it's still a code involving morality.

 
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:23 PM   #123
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sounds like satanism.

 
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:28 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by mercurial View Post
Could you know? If you were a sociopath would you be able to tell?
You would be in denial of it. Some sociopaths know something is off with themselves, but they accept it and love it or they deny it. Scott Peterson is a sociopath.... who is also a narcissist. His wife getting pregnant really set him off.

 
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:36 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
i used to be concerned that i might have BPD since it's so often related to trauma and PTSD and i used to be a major self harmer and stuff, but i asked my therapist recently and she sorta laughed at me. i know i had talked about it with my psychiatrist a long time ago and he was like... no, i dont think so but now it's much more obvious that i don't have an personality pathology

it's just sort of an irrational fear after having so many inpatient stays and blah blah blah because it was fairly common although i'd say many were just dumped in that category because they self harmed and were treatment resistant. luckily i missed that stigma, there's a lot about BPD that seems... well, it doesn't seem as a solid of a diagnosis as something like NPD or ASPD or really most of the other personality disorders. i guess you're right that it's harder to see, i suppose the DSM 5 is addressing that, at least that's the idea
I think many people have some of those markers. I am referring to the BPD people who are really elaborate and calculating when it comes to manipulating others. An example of this might be a person who makes up elaborate stories about themselves, and have serious abandonment issues and co-dependency. They would go so far as to threaten suicide if someone wanted to break off a relationship with them.

 
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:44 PM   #126
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I used to think I had a pretty underdeveloped capacity for empathy and I am very hot and cold with relationships, tend to require a lot of praise and tend to be drawn most to people who refuse to give it. But it doesn't seem that I'm full on personality disorder hopefully. Just average screwed up human

 
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:46 PM   #127
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Being unable to empathize sure would make life weird. Secondhand embarrassment is one of my primary emotions

 
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:05 PM   #128
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I get stuck when someone tells me about a problem they have and I either don't think it's a problem or else if they're complaining about another person, I don't feel that the other person has done anything wrong or worse still I think it's really the fault of the person I'm talking to. Unless they're a really, really close friend I've known for years I just can't fake an appropriate response because I hate lying but I'm also really averse to conflict with new acquaintances so I end up parroting back what they've said in an ORLY high pitched type voice, and making non-committal, cliched statements and I think I end up looking really vacant and dumb and weird. I'm trying to be better about saying what I think and not worrying.

 
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:29 PM   #129
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I feel like those situations happen because the speaker is dancing around what they're actually upset about

 
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:31 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Starla View Post
I think many people have some of those markers. I am referring to the BPD people who are really elaborate and calculating when it comes to manipulating others. An example of this might be a person who makes up elaborate stories about themselves, and have serious abandonment issues and co-dependency. They would go so far as to threaten suicide if someone wanted to break off a relationship with them.
yeah i know what you mean, i think i was just told i was those things so much by different people that i am now (or was for a while) worried those people were right... plus for a little while i was very manipulative (but not in BPD abandonment ways) while i was on drugs (for money), but that was because of addiction

 
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:35 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by vixnix View Post
I get stuck when someone tells me about a problem they have and I either don't think it's a problem or else if they're complaining about another person, I don't feel that the other person has done anything wrong or worse still I think it's really the fault of the person I'm talking to. Unless they're a really, really close friend I've known for years I just can't fake an appropriate response because I hate lying but I'm also really averse to conflict with new acquaintances so I end up parroting back what they've said in an ORLY high pitched type voice, and making non-committal, cliched statements and I think I end up looking really vacant and dumb and weird. I'm trying to be better about saying what I think and not worrying.
I do this when someone brings up something and I feel like I'm not in a place where I can properly reply - for example, politics at work. Even if I agree with them, I don't think it's an okay thing to get into with a customer. You never know who's listening.

If it's about people, I feel like most people just want you to listen. If it's someone close I might give some kind of lose 'advice', or if they ask me straight up, otherwise I just try to ask questions that will help them elaborate and hopefully the whole interaction will help them feel better. I don't think most people expect to be able to really talk like that and usually it does seem to help. But then you get into being-their-therapist territory which I am pretty good at avoiding these days, but I have to be mindful. Some of you might have seen me attempt to be like this in PMs and such. Advice giving is overrated when it comes to feelings. imo.

 
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:37 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son View Post
it's still a code involving morality.
okay i guess but it's not about the morals it's about protecting yourself, so i mean it's a moral code in the same way as 'you shouldn't kill someone because you'll go to jail'. which sounds very sociopathic.

you shouldn't steal from your friends because you care about them and think that stealing is wrong in general

but i guess the same result is achieved so that's good, however your reasons all hang on personal gain so as soon as that is gone (they aren't friends or whatever), all rules are out of the picture, so it's very ummmm precarious

 
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:41 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Starla View Post
You would be in denial of it. Some sociopaths know something is off with themselves, but they accept it and love it or they deny it. Scott Peterson is a sociopath.... who is also a narcissist. His wife getting pregnant really set him off.
SP is a good example of what i was trying to talk about before where narcissistic sociopaths are more likely to do stupid things because of their ego and get caught

like i know the guy i was with for 4 1/2 years, i am positive he will get caught at some point, and his narcissism will be what undoes him. because he's like a 10 year old and must get what he wants.

Last edited by reprise85 : 10-23-2012 at 11:53 PM.

 
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:44 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Charmbag View Post
I feel like those situations happen because the speaker is dancing around what they're actually upset about
Do you think they're actually upset at me? Or just something else. The idea that they're actually trying to let me know that they have a problem with me is pretty frightening. But could be accurate. OMG D:

 
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:45 AM   #135
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ha well I didn't necessarily mean that. I just feel like if someone is going on and on about some pointless story then they're probably not disclosing some relevant details, maybe about the history of the relationships involved or even that the boring anecdote is actually tangential to what they really want to talk about but are afraid to. clearly they're upset, it's gotta be for an actual reason and not just because they care that much about their friend's haircut or what the fuck ever.

 
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:37 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
okay i guess but it's not about the morals it's about protecting yourself, so i mean it's a moral code in the same way as 'you shouldn't kill someone because you'll go to jail'. which sounds very sociopathic.

you shouldn't steal from your friends because you care about them and think that stealing is wrong in general

but i guess the same result is achieved so that's good, however your reasons all hang on personal gain so as soon as that is gone (they aren't friends or whatever), all rules are out of the picture, so it's very ummmm precarious
oh ffs

 
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:38 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Charmbag View Post
Being unable to empathize sure would make life weird. Secondhand embarrassment is one of my primary emotions
If you changed, sure, but not if it always was that way.

 
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:39 AM   #138
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yeah i get that

 
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:40 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Luke de Spa View Post
oh ffs
aren't morals just a way of preserving a stable society

altruism isn't really a thing

 
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:43 AM   #140
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itt: women out themselves as paranoid and crazy.

 
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:44 AM   #141
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how do you know you're not schizophrenic

 
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:48 AM   #142
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itt: men wonder if they should be paranoid about being schizophrenic.

 
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:49 AM   #143
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itt: denial ensues on both sides until someone reboots this simulation. tune in on election day.

 
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:50 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Luke de Spa View Post
oh ffs
how is it more moral than 'i shouldn't jump off a cliff because i will fall and die'

 
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:51 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Charmbag View Post
aren't morals just a way of preserving a stable society

altruism isn't really a thing
altruism seems like a survival strategy, just like sociopathy is. no?

 
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:53 AM   #146
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if murder was legal and taxed, i would buy a shitload of those stamps.

 
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:57 AM   #147
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altruism seems like a survival strategy, just like sociopathy is. no?
okay now altruism as mental illness i would buy

 
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:01 AM   #148
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more like an inborn tendency that helps you navigate your world. both of those things do that, but in very different ways. it is easy to attach the moral highground to altruism, but i do agree that it is not really much different as it's not something you really 'choose'. i just couldn't be happy doing sociopathic things, for example (as a strategy for achieving the things i want, i'm not saying i never do anything remotely sociopathic)

 
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:04 AM   #149
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i feel like we a part of one big organism

 
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:05 AM   #150
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it is very hard to really define things like an empathy quotient. that's why the DSM doesn't even try. anti-social personality disorder is defined by behaviors.

hare's psychopathy checklist attempts to go beyond that and is fairly successful at including behavior and character traits, but sociopathy/psychopathy is not a diagnosis

 
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