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Old 11-17-2012, 09:35 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by Luke de Spa View Post
i guess i'm wondering if psychopathy might be an evolutionary adaptation unique to humans

i mean there are obvious advantages to being wired up to not give a fuck about others and being able to hide it within a population of people who generally do
Adaptation or mere mutation? Evolution isn't what works best; it's just what works. There doesn't need to be an advantage to anything so long as it passes the simple survival test.

Unique to humans? We'd have to be open to mental diversify among much simpler minds and create some typical structure for, say, the feline mind, in order to demonstrate deviations. And I can't imagine how we'd begin to test that.

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:43 AM   #392
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Saying that evolution is "what works" is sloppy language, evolution has a definition and that's what evolution is.

"Evolution is the change in the inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations."

for example.

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:44 AM   #393
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptation

and it ought to be fairly easy to test whether or not a dog (for example) experiences emotional contagion

i don't know about cats though. cats are assholes

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:58 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by dean_r_koontz View Post
Saying that evolution is "what works" is sloppy language, evolution has a definition and that's what evolution is.

"Evolution is the change in the inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations."

for example.
It's simplified to make a clear point. He's suggesting human evolution endows humans with improvements of some sort or characteristics that necessarily benefit them. But there are mutations that stick and don't go away which do not benefit humans or make them more fit for an environment. Again, just because humans have it that doesn't mean it's beneficial, ergo evolution isn't optimal, just as basically functional as possible.

You lived? You mated? Good enough.

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:02 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by Luke de Spa View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptation

and it ought to be fairly easy to test whether or not a dog (for example) experiences emotional contagion

i don't know about cats though. cats are assholes
Herp derp adaptation isn't optimality. It's just meeting basic survival and mating requirements.

No clue why you'd think every single human characteristic has some net benefit to the human. Perhaps sociopaths are mutants who pose no benefit to the species but they function well enough and get laid and that keeps it going.

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:07 AM   #396
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i don't think that

you're talking rubbish. benefit to the human. benefit to the species. incoherent

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:09 AM   #397
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So why are you searching to justify the mind of a sociopath?

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:11 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by Luke de Spa View Post
i guess i'm wondering if psychopathy might be an evolutionary adaptation unique to humans
Right here you call it an adaptation, as though it were developed for a benefit of any sort - to fit an environment and survive/mate. Don't you think there is a difference between adaptation and mutation?

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:14 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by duovamp View Post
It's simplified to make a clear point. He's suggesting human evolution endows humans with improvements of some sort or characteristics that necessarily benefit them. But there are mutations that stick and don't go away which do not benefit humans or make them more fit for an environment. Again, just because humans have it that doesn't mean it's beneficial, ergo evolution isn't optimal, just as basically functional as possible.

You lived? You mated? Good enough.
I don't think LDS has used the term evolution anywhere here until you mentioned it and he hasn't said that the process of evolution necessarily means improvements. you're basically making things up and talking out of your ass.

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:16 AM   #400
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I just quoted it you idiot.

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:16 AM   #401
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He's implying it's an adaptation. It might not be. What. Is. So. Hard.

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:27 AM   #402
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Originally Posted by duovamp View Post
He's implying it's an adaptation. It might not be. What. Is. So. Hard.
I see now that he used the term "evolutionary adaptation". In the definition for adaptation on wikipedia we see this: Adaptations contribute to the fitness and survival of individuals.

He hasn't anywhere, as far as i can tell, said that evolution automatically means an improvement, i think that's the relevant thing to quote if you can find it.

Also evolution still isn't "what works", that's not a simplification, it's just wrong my friendly friend.

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:47 AM   #403
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Implying it is an adaptation does though, and that is exactly what he did. I'm saying I don't think it's an adaptation because it might not contribute to fitness or survival. It could very well be a thing that stuck, because evolution isn't reaching for some higher goal or improved state... again, it's just meeting the minimum requirements for survival and reproduction.

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:42 AM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duovamp View Post
Implying it is an adaptation does though, and that is exactly what he did. .
No, read this again:

Quote:
i guess i'm wondering if psychopathy might be an evolutionary adaptation unique to humans
This is not implying anything, he's wondering if it is an adaptation, not explicitly stating that it is an adaptation or "implying" that it is. If i say "i'm wondering if i might get a popscicle tomorrow", would you interpret that as me implying that i'm going to get a popscicle tomorrow? Probably not. You've wilfully misinterpreted what Luke has been saying in order to go on nitpicky rant about what evolution is (and you failed even at that simple task).

Last edited by dean_r_koontz : 11-17-2012 at 12:04 PM.

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:29 PM   #405
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Stupid.

No his focus is on whether or not it's unique to humans. He's already made it an evolutionary adaptation. He wonders if it is unique to humans, not if it is an adaptation. Not hard here.

I'm saying it might not even be an adaptation. I feel bad arguing semantics with you about English, but the case is he basically determined it was an adaptation in his question. He did not say "I'm wondering if psychopathy might be an evolutionary adaptation and if it is unique to humans."

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:31 PM   #406
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And he'd be here to defend himself... which he has chosen not to do... because he knows he fucked up.

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:32 PM   #407
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His question was about the uniqueness, not whether or not it's an adaptation. He already figured it was. Just get out of here koontzy.

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:38 PM   #408
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Stupid.

No his focus is on whether or not it's unique to humans. He's already made it an evolutionary adaptation. He wonders if it is unique to humans, not if it is an adaptation. Not hard here.
Yeah you're right about that, i'm not reading properly.

Quote:
I'm saying it might not even be an adaptation. I feel bad arguing semantics with you about English, but the case is he basically determined it was an adaptation in his question. He did not say "I'm wondering if psychopathy might be an evolutionary adaptation and if it is unique to humans."
true that, very unsatisfying for me this.

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:31 PM   #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duovamp View Post
Right here you call it an adaptation, as though it were developed for a benefit of any sort - to fit an environment and survive/mate. Don't you think there is a difference between adaptation and mutation?
my understanding is that that's not how it works. all adaptations are mutations, "developed for a benefit" is ludicrous.

i said "adaptation" because, well, sociopaths are widespread, and only a small proportion are criminal. but it might not be an adaptation at all it might just be the side effect of a certain kind of brain damage, for example.

you may have missed it in your rush to spluttering nerd histrionics but i did start out by saying "i'm wondering if"

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:32 PM   #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duovamp View Post
And he'd be here to defend himself... which he has chosen not to do... because he knows he fucked up.
i was sleeping

when did you turn into eulogy?

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:32 AM   #411
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i was sleeping
Sleeping eh? That's convenient.

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:10 AM   #412
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Now I'm supposed to believe you live in some sort of... Different time zone?

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:24 PM   #413
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our cat elsa might be a sociopath.

 
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:22 AM   #414
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http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md...j75jo1_500.png

 
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:35 AM   #415
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Originally Posted by duovamp View Post
It's simplified to make a clear point. He's suggesting human evolution endows humans with improvements of some sort or characteristics that necessarily benefit them. But there are mutations that stick and don't go away which do not benefit humans or make them more fit for an environment. Again, just because humans have it that doesn't mean it's beneficial, ergo evolution isn't optimal, just as basically functional as possible.

You lived? You mated? Good enough.
ergo?
really?

 
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:04 PM   #416
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QED your stupid

 
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