McCain gearing up to run, it seems...

Effloresce · 11-11-2006, 02:32 PM

Quote:

McCain to Launch 2008 Exploratory Panel

Friday November 10, 2006 11:46 PM

AP Photo PN101

By LIZ SIDOTI

Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - Sen. John McCain, considered the front-runner for the 2008 Republican presidential nomination, intends to launch an exploratory committee next week, GOP officials said Friday.

The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid pre-empting a public statement from the four-term Arizona senator.

McCain, the GOP maverick who unsuccessfully sought his party's nomination in 2000, already has opened a bank account for the committee, officials said.

``The senator has made no decision about running for president,'' said Eileen McMenamin, a McCain spokeswoman.

Aides to McCain say the senator will discuss a presidential bid with his family over the Christmas holiday.

McCain is a former Navy pilot who was a prisoner of war in Vietnam. He was elected to the Senate in 1986, and served in the House for four years before that.

If McCain were to run, he would turn 72 on Aug. 29, 2008, at the height of the campaign. Only President Reagan was older - 73 at the start of his second term. McCain's health could be another issue. The senator has had several cancerous lesions removed from his skin.

Since losing to Bush in 2000, McCain has alternately challenged and embraced the president, building a reputation as a maverick who isn't afraid to speak his mind. At the same time, he's sought to mend fences with conservatives he alienated in his first presidential run.

After Republicans lost control of both the House and Senate on Tuesday, McCain called for a return to the conservative principles he said make up the foundations of the Republican Party.

``We came to Washington to change government and government changed us,'' lamented McCain. ``We departed rather tragically from our conservative principles.''

He urged the party to return to a time when the party was known for careful stewardship of tax dollars, less government, less regulation, lower taxes, a strong defense, as well as community and family values.

``I'm confident we will do that,'' he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/s...206704,00.html

Effloresce · 11-11-2006, 02:42 PM

Mods, please move this one to the politics forum, thanks.

beef curtains · 11-11-2006, 03:44 PM

What's your issue? You dislike him? You don't want the Republicans to nominate someone?

Being liberal myself its kind of a double edged sword - I don't want a Republican to win, and he's perhaps a more viable candidate than the rest of his party, but at the same time if he were to win it would be fuck lot better than Ted Stevens from Alaska winning...

I'maskingforit! · 11-11-2006, 03:46 PM

is this really news/surprising?

MrPantyFAce · 11-11-2006, 03:50 PM

I hope the next president make immigration easier. i want to live in the states for at least a couple years and try to live the american dream.

JokeyLoki · 11-11-2006, 03:53 PM

Good for him... I like McCain.

Effloresce · 11-11-2006, 03:54 PM

beef curtains: I don't like him at all. I do not trust him because he's only one of the few 'moderates' in the party left. He will not only have to pander to the far-right dominance of the GOP -- that, despite their wake-up call on 11/7, will not change in two years -- but he'll have to give in to a lot of their demands as well. Unfortunately for McCain, I believe his own party will ruin his chances of running an effective Presidency in the eyes of mainstream moderate Americans. But I wouldn't be surprised if voters are dumb once again, and push the button for McCain before they realize this.

beef curtains · 11-11-2006, 08:53 PM

I don't understand that at all. You don't trust him because his party has changed and their system sets him up to fail?

Sounds like politics in general...

But yeah, I agree the Repubs aren't going to learn anything in the next 2 years.

Effloresce · 11:45 PM

He himself can set up for a win. What I'm saying is that a. his party's reputation and b. the fact that it is now almost entirely to the very far right is NOT going to help HIM. And therefore would put his Presidency, which of course means the country, at a disadvantage. You'd be letting the GOP push all the buttons in the White House for yet another four long years if you vote for McCain.

The US really does need a Centrist or Moderate party, in my opinion.

ella · 11-11-2006, 11:56 PM

do you really think mccain has a chance?

i just don't trust him... he's a fool... and i don't understand how anyone could be so blind!

Toast · 11-12-2006, 04:27 AM

Obama is going to kick his ass.

Effloresce · 11-12-2006, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ella

do you really think mccain has a chance?

i just don't trust him... he's a fool... and i don't understand how anyone could be so blind!

Yes. He's like the most favored Republican candidate for 2008.

As for why people could be so blind... if they were dumb enough to elect Bush twice, they'd easily elect McCain.

Nimrod's Son · 11-12-2006, 04:37 PM

Wait, so as someone who dislikes conservatives, you're against a moderate possibly being nominated by the GOP?

I'm still confused about that.

Effloresce · 11-12-2006, 05:03 PM

Then you're not reading anything I said, or you enjoy acting like a partisan hack as I gave good reasons for not supporting the guy.

a. I don't trust him because of his stance on tax cuts and net neutrality, 'moderate' or not.
b. Even if he is a true moderate, you have to look at everyone else left in his party. These are the people he has to work and make compromises with in his own party, and I definitely do NOT trust them.
c. The GOP will have eight years and nothing but shitty results; it's time to give it back to the Democrats.

By the way, I'm still confused about how you think John McCain is such a 'moderate'. Look at his fucking record. He's not a moderate. Anyone who thinks he is would be fooling themselves. After the first four years of McCain, assuming he's elected, don't bitch and moan on here about he's such a terrible President because you voted for it.

Stay home if you hate Hillary or the disorganization of the Democrats. Don't give the GOP your vote.

Nimrod's Son · 11-12-2006, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effloresce

Then you're not reading anything I said, or you enjoy acting like a partisan hack as I gave good reasons for not supporting the guy.

a. I don't trust him because of his stance on tax cuts and net neutrality, 'moderate' or not.
b. Even if he is a true moderate, you have to look at everyone else left in his party. These are the people he has to work and make compromises with in his own party, and I definitely do NOT trust them.
c. The GOP will have eight years and nothing but shitty results; it's time to give it back to the Democrats.

By the way, I'm still confused about how you think John McCain is such a 'moderate'. Look at his fucking record. He's not a moderate. Anyone who thinks he is would be fooling themselves. After the first four years of McCain, assuming he's elected, don't bitch and moan on here about he's such a terrible President because you voted for it.

Stay home if you hate Hillary or the disorganization of the Democrats. Don't give the GOP your vote.

Well if you do look at his record, he's been a moderate, has worked with the Democrats extensively on bipartisan bills, etc.

So really what you're saying here then is you dislike the GOP, and the reason you dislike McCain is because he is more moderate than others in his party and thus would have a better chance of being elected because he's more mainstream than a true hardline conservative, and that would put the GOP in the White House.

You'd rather they run Adolph Hitler and take the chance that Hitler could win becaue it's less likely he gets elected?

When a party I don't generally like chooses a moderate, centrist candidate, I'm far more likely to be happy with that choice as it means better things (IMO) for the country. You obviously seem to disagree.

Nimrod's Son · 11-12-2006, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effloresce

Stay home if you hate Hillary or the disorganization of the Democrats. Don't give the GOP your vote.

#1 - This is idiotic. "Don't vote at all if you don't like the democrats!!!!11!1!"
#2 - There are other places to give your votes than the GOP/Democrats.

Effloresce · 11-12-2006, 05:14 PM

More like don't vote at all if you're that disgusted with the political process. You can think Hillary is a bitch for all I care, but the Democrats as a whole are far, far less corrupt than the GOP right now and this is not going to change in two or perhaps even four years. But if you're that pissed off at the Dems too, you're being just as dumb for giving the GOP your vote. People have to stop thinking about the Presidency as one person. The President is just a figurehead, a key part of the party yes, but people surrounding him are very influential in policy making.

Effloresce · 11-12-2006, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

Well if you do look at his record, he's been a moderate, has worked with the Democrats extensively on bipartisan bills, etc.

And he was first for supporting the middle class and now he votes with Bush on sucking the rich off and making his tax cuts permanent. He calls Rick Santorum his "friend". I could go on and on. He's a partisan hack now. His stance is increasingly becoming inconsistent and if he keeps it up, if the Democrats run good ads against him in 2008, they could paint him as being a bigger "flip-flopper" than John Kerry.

Quote:

So really what you're saying here then is you dislike the GOP, and the reason you dislike McCain is because he is more moderate than others in his party and thus would have a better chance of being elected because he's more mainstream than a true hardline conservative, and that would put the GOP in the White House.

What I'm saying here is because McCain is a part of the GOP which is and will continue to be dominated by a far-right mentality, it's dangerous to give him a vote. I stressed before that the problem may very well not be McCain himself (although I personally can't trust him anymore, I realize opinions differ on the man), but the party he belongs to. Can you not see this? McCain can be as moderate as he wants; at the end of the day he has to pander to what his party wants. And with the GOP dominated by extremely conservative members, he'd have a hard time trying to be himself, if he's this moderate posed to save the day as you seem to be implying.

Quote:

You'd rather they run Adolph Hitler and take the chance that Hitler could win becaue it's less likely he gets elected?

While the GOP is trash, there's no one in there like Adolf Hitler, first of all. At least, I hope not. And YES, I want them to run what the party really is so people fucking get it. This country has a short memory. Running a 'moderate' candidate representing a party of far-right partisan loons is great for election day, but terrible for the country because they'll be locking themselves into yet another four long years of the same old bullshit.

Quote:

When a party I don't generally like chooses a moderate, centrist candidate, I'm far more likely to be happy with that choice as it means better things (IMO) for the country. You obviously seem to disagree.

I disagree for the reasons I previously stated. John McCain is one man. He HAS to please his own party first and foremost if he wants to run an effective Presidency, especially these days. Unfortunately for him, he's going to have to give in to a lot of their demands if they choose him to be President. If McCain is as great as you think he is, Nimrod, then it's too bad for him. But there's nothing he can do about his hijacked party.

Nimrod's Son · 11-12-2006, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effloresce

What I'm saying here is because McCain is a part of the GOP which is and will continue to be dominated by a far-right mentality, it's dangerous to give him a vote. I stressed before that the problem may very well not be McCain himself (although I personally can't trust him anymore, I realize opinions differ on the man), but the party he belongs to. Can you not see this? McCain can be as moderate as he wants; at the end of the day he has to pander to what his party wants. And with the GOP dominated by extremely conservative members, he'd have a hard time trying to be himself, if he's this moderate posed to save the day as you seem to be implying.

While the GOP is trash, there's no one in there like Adolf Hitler, first of all. At least, I hope not. And YES, I want them to run what the party really is so people fucking get it. This country has a short memory. Running a 'moderate' candidate representing a party of far-right partisan loons is great for election day, but terrible for the country because they'll be locking themselves into yet another four long years of the same old bullshit.

I disagree for the reasons I previously stated. John McCain is one man. He HAS to please his own party first and foremost if he wants to run an effective Presidency, especially these days. Unfortunately for him, he's going to have to give in to a lot of their demands if they choose him to be President. If McCain is as great as you think he is, Nimrod, then it's too bad for him. But there's nothing he can do about his hijacked party.

Wow, McCain supported people running for office in his own party during an election period? And he was in support of voting to keep tax cuts? WHAT A CRAZY RIGHT WING WHACKO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effloresce

If McCain is as great as you think he is, Nimrod, then it's too bad for him. But there's nothing he can do about his hijacked party.

I don't think McCain is great at all. He's not my choice of a candidate. However he's in many ways the GOP version of Joe Lieberman, which is why it always confuses me when liberals go after him.

MrPantyFAce · 11-12-2006, 06:33 PM

McCain is a white male. he will put hilary or obama in their place.

Corganist · 11-12-2006, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

I don't think McCain is great at all. He's not my choice of a candidate. However he's in many ways the GOP version of Joe Lieberman, which is why it always confuses me when liberals go after him.

Yeah. Its kinda strange how that works. There's a lot of Republicans out there who like and support Lieberman because he's moderate, but they hate McCain because he's moderate. And up until recently there were always Dems who like John McCain, but hate Joe Lieberman in much the same way.

McCain has no shot in 2008. His creeping to the right over the last couple years comes off as strictly a political move made in response to the realization that he needs conservatives on his side. Conservatives see right through it though, so he's gaining no ground with them. And apparently, liberals aren't seeing through it, so McCain is losing any crossover appeal he may have had.

Effloresce · 11-12-2006, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

Wow, McCain supported people running for office in his own party during an election period? And he was in support of voting to keep tax cuts? WHAT A CRAZY RIGHT WING WHACKO.

What the fuck, dude? Unable to read tonight? I'm not sure if you can. Either that or you choose to be so stubborn and not seriously consider the various other things I pointed out. Put my more personal criticisms of McCain aside, it still goes back to his party. He has and will pander to that should he be elected President. The GOP got a swift kick in the ass on 11/7 for a reason. Corruption was the #1 thing on voters' minds. McCain himself may not be corrupt but he will no doubt have to work with a party overrun by these people.

If you can't take this into consideration I don't know how else to explain this. If you're still "confused" I don't know what anyone could say to not make you confused.

Nimrod's Son · 11-12-2006, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effloresce

What the fuck, dude? Unable to read tonight? I'm not sure if you can. Either that or you choose to be so stubborn and not seriously consider the various other things I pointed out. Put my more personal criticisms of McCain aside, it still goes back to his party. He has and will pander to that should he be elected President. The GOP got a swift kick in the ass on 11/7 for a reason. Corruption was the #1 thing on voters' minds. McCain himself may not be corrupt but he will no doubt have to work with a party overrun by these people.

That's truly amazing since every exit poll said the #1 issue on everyone's mind was the war in Iraq and George Bush.

Effloresce · 11-14-2006, 02:34 PM

I thought it was:

1. Corruption
2. Terrorism
3. Economy
4. Iraq

Either way if that's all you can say to argue back... then I think I've made valid points otherwise.

11-11-2006, 11:38 PM	#9
Effloresce Banned Posts: 5,018	He himself can set up for a win. What I'm saying is that a. his party's reputation and b. the fact that it is now almost entirely to the very far right is NOT going to help HIM. And therefore would put his Presidency, which of course means the country, at a disadvantage. You'd be letting the GOP push all the buttons in the White House for yet another four long years if you vote for McCain. The US really does need a Centrist or Moderate party, in my opinion. Last edited by Effloresce : 11-11-2006 at 11:45 PM.

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11-11-2006, 02:42 PM	#2
Effloresce Banned Posts: 5,018	Mods, please move this one to the politics forum, thanks.

11-11-2006, 03:44 PM	#3
beef curtains Immortal Location: I like me so much better when you're naked Posts: 21,752	What's your issue? You dislike him? You don't want the Republicans to nominate someone? Being liberal myself its kind of a double edged sword - I don't want a Republican to win, and he's perhaps a more viable candidate than the rest of his party, but at the same time if he were to win it would be fuck lot better than Ted Stevens from Alaska winning...

11-11-2006, 03:46 PM	#4
I'maskingforit! Ownz Posts: 620	is this really news/surprising?

11-11-2006, 03:50 PM	#5
MrPantyFAce Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 1,781	I hope the next president make immigration easier. i want to live in the states for at least a couple years and try to live the american dream.

11-11-2006, 03:53 PM	#6
JokeyLoki has great self of steam. Location: SECRET OBAMA FUCKDEN RENDEZVOUS Posts: 24,305	Good for him... I like McCain.

11-11-2006, 03:54 PM	#7
Effloresce Banned Posts: 5,018	beef curtains: I don't like him at all. I do not trust him because he's only one of the few 'moderates' in the party left. He will not only have to pander to the far-right dominance of the GOP -- that, despite their wake-up call on 11/7, will not change in two years -- but he'll have to give in to a lot of their demands as well. Unfortunately for McCain, I believe his own party will ruin his chances of running an effective Presidency in the eyes of mainstream moderate Americans. But I wouldn't be surprised if voters are dumb once again, and push the button for McCain before they realize this.

11-11-2006, 08:53 PM	#8
beef curtains Immortal Location: I like me so much better when you're naked Posts: 21,752	I don't understand that at all. You don't trust him because his party has changed and their system sets him up to fail? Sounds like politics in general... But yeah, I agree the Repubs aren't going to learn anything in the next 2 years.

11-11-2006, 11:56 PM	#10
ella Minion of Satan Posts: 5,573	do you really think mccain has a chance? i just don't trust him... he's a fool... and i don't understand how anyone could be so blind!

11-12-2006, 04:27 AM	#11
Toast Apocalyptic Poster Location: Woodinville, Wa. Posts: 3,211	Obama is going to kick his ass.

11-12-2006, 04:37 PM	#13
Nimrod's Son Master of Karate and Friendship Location: in your butt Posts: 72,972	Wait, so as someone who dislikes conservatives, you're against a moderate possibly being nominated by the GOP? I'm still confused about that.

11-12-2006, 05:03 PM	#14
Effloresce Banned Posts: 5,018	Then you're not reading anything I said, or you enjoy acting like a partisan hack as I gave good reasons for not supporting the guy. a. I don't trust him because of his stance on tax cuts and net neutrality, 'moderate' or not. b. Even if he is a true moderate, you have to look at everyone else left in his party. These are the people he has to work and make compromises with in his own party, and I definitely do NOT trust them. c. The GOP will have eight years and nothing but shitty results; it's time to give it back to the Democrats. By the way, I'm still confused about how you think John McCain is such a 'moderate'. Look at his fucking record. He's not a moderate. Anyone who thinks he is would be fooling themselves. After the first four years of McCain, assuming he's elected, don't bitch and moan on here about he's such a terrible President because you voted for it. Stay home if you hate Hillary or the disorganization of the Democrats. Don't give the GOP your vote.

11-12-2006, 05:14 PM	#17
Effloresce Banned Posts: 5,018	More like don't vote at all if you're that disgusted with the political process. You can think Hillary is a bitch for all I care, but the Democrats as a whole are far, far less corrupt than the GOP right now and this is not going to change in two or perhaps even four years. But if you're that pissed off at the Dems too, you're being just as dumb for giving the GOP your vote. People have to stop thinking about the Presidency as one person. The President is just a figurehead, a key part of the party yes, but people surrounding him are very influential in policy making.

11-12-2006, 06:33 PM	#20
MrPantyFAce Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 1,781	McCain is a white male. he will put hilary or obama in their place.

11-14-2006, 02:34 PM	#24
Effloresce Banned Posts: 5,018	I thought it was: 1. Corruption 2. Terrorism 3. Economy 4. Iraq Either way if that's all you can say to argue back... then I think I've made valid points otherwise.