Netphoria Message Board


Go Back   Netphoria Message Board > Smashing Pumpkins Boards > Smashing Pumpkins/Billy Corgan Discussion
Register Netphoria's Amazon.com Link Members List Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-21-2022, 11:57 AM   #271
Spaceboy88
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Spaceboy88's Avatar
 
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,413
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ourruseoffools View Post
Annie dog is badass
I remember when people on this board used to shit all over Annie Dog when Adore was released!

 
Spaceboy88 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 11:58 AM   #272
ilikeplanets
Socialphobic
 
ilikeplanets's Avatar
 
Location: Ignore List
Posts: 14,868
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoid View Post
I mean why didn’t Darcy stop him from releasing perfect? That was when the blandness really started to settle in. Then it was a single? Talk about boring/goes nowhere/sounds generic for the time.
Agree, I've never been especially impressed with Perfect. The video made it worse. The vocals are the best part.

 
ilikeplanets is online now
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 11:59 AM   #273
Joey Goldberg
Minion of Satan
 
Joey Goldberg's Avatar
 
Location: in the line for drinks (or is it just tickets to buy the drinks?)
Posts: 5,667
Default

lol, ok ms "maybe they were only good 'cause of the producers!!!"

 
Joey Goldberg is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 12:00 PM   #274
incubator
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Posts: 1,098
Default

MCIS was widely regarded as a bit of a bait & switch at the time. People bought it expecting more Zero or BWBW and got "some Elton John shit". It's one of those records that absolutely everyone bought but relatively few loved.

 
incubator is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 12:01 PM   #275
enthusaroo
Apocalyptic Poster
 
enthusaroo's Avatar
 
Location: ameriKKKa
Posts: 2,068
Default

MCIS had meaningful lyrics, melodies.. was incredibly produced with incredible variety..

 
enthusaroo is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 12:10 PM   #276
themadcaplaughs
Apocalyptic Poster
 
themadcaplaughs's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,419
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by incubator View Post
MCIS was widely regarded as a bit of a bait & switch at the time. People bought it expecting more Zero or BWBW and got "some Elton John shit". It's one of those records that absolutely everyone bought but relatively few loved.
What in the name of all that is holy and good are you going on about?

 
themadcaplaughs is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 12:11 PM   #277
Squish Squash
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Squish Squash's Avatar
 
Location: I should kick you in the sides
Posts: 1,780
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by incubator View Post
MCIS was widely regarded as a bit of a bait & switch at the time. People bought it expecting more Zero or BWBW and got "some Elton John shit". It's one of those records that absolutely everyone bought but relatively few loved.
Can always count on you for atrocious takes on MCIS

 
Squish Squash is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 12:12 PM   #278
NovaFritz
Apocalyptic Poster
 
NovaFritz's Avatar
 
Location: luna
Posts: 2,105
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
Agree, I've never been especially impressed with Perfect. The video made it worse. The vocals are the best part.
Noooo. It's a great song with some of the least cringy lyrics he's ever written.

 
NovaFritz is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 12:12 PM   #279
Butt Pope
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Posts: 1,931
Default

Ok I listened. It’s really disappointing. The palm riff sounds like some early throw away White Zombie track

 
Butt Pope is online now
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 12:14 PM   #280
Squish Squash
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Squish Squash's Avatar
 
Location: I should kick you in the sides
Posts: 1,780
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butt Pope View Post
Ok I listened. It’s really disappointing. The palm riff sounds like some early throw away White Zombie track
White Zombie slapped how dare you

 
Squish Squash is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 12:15 PM   #281
Butt Pope
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Posts: 1,931
Default

I wish Billy still wrote lyrics like in Cupid and Where Boys Fear

 
Butt Pope is online now
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 12:30 PM   #282
incubator
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Posts: 1,098
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squish Squash View Post
Can always count on you for atrocious takes on MCIS
It's objectively true. You can love it and that's fine but the world didn't/doesn't. It's not even in print.

 
incubator is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 12:41 PM   #283
topleybird
Janis Jopleybird
 
topleybird's Avatar
 
Location: Let me see the booty hop. And now make the booty stop. Now drop, and do the booty wop.
Posts: 5,706
Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squish Squash View Post
If you think it’s themes are only “unique to teenagers” I imagine you’re neurotypical. As someone who’s autistic with severe OCD and depression it still resonates with me heavily at 30.
I was probably unclear; I don't think it's impossible to relate to the album if you're an adult, neurotypical or otherwise. I just think the "cheesiness" The 'Noid (how ironic! The 'Noid talking about cheesiness! Like the guy from the Domino's Pizza ads? Right? Is this thing on?) is talking about strikes me more as cheese or somewhat immature compared to how I felt at the time.

I suppose I don't know how to completely articulate it. An Ode to No One, after a teen breakup, felt like an appropriate amount of rage. I can't imagine feeling that angry about someone I love(d) now (not saying people my age don't or shouldn't, but it's not who I am any more), but I still love the song and can kind of go, like, "Ah, yeah, I remember what it was like to feel that way."

 
topleybird is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 12:44 PM   #284
Squish Squash
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Squish Squash's Avatar
 
Location: I should kick you in the sides
Posts: 1,780
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by incubator View Post
It's objectively true. You can love it and that's fine but the world didn't/doesn't. It's not even in print.
It was certified diamond, is their most popular album and is critically acclaimed. You’re full of shit

 
Squish Squash is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 12:44 PM   #285
paranoid
Minion of Satan
 
paranoid's Avatar
 
Location: up a tree
Posts: 6,034
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Goldberg View Post
well yeah there's always been bozos who didn't "get it" even when they were good

u think i'm going to base my continued patronage of & all things b0lly based on said bozos?
Yes

 
paranoid is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 12:58 PM   #286
Disco King
Minion of Satan
 
Disco King's Avatar
 
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,171
Default

Wtf why does everyone hate "Annie Dog?"

 
Disco King is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 01:04 PM   #287
ourruseoffools
Demi-God
 
ourruseoffools's Avatar
 
Posts: 342
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco King View Post
Wtf why does everyone hate "Annie Dog?"
Cuz they r hyperFixated on fuzz guitars instead of badass songwriting with swag,,, SAD!

 
ourruseoffools is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 01:11 PM   #288
Disco King
Minion of Satan
 
Disco King's Avatar
 
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoid View Post
I’m not saying I like the new shit, but this myth that they weren’t cheesy before is just that.. a myth.

Play about half of Mellon collie for one of your non fan friends and you’ll hear this — “this is cheesy garbage.”

I’ve had that happen several times. And said people have good taste.
"Cheesy" and "garbage" are two different things. Something can be cheesy and good.

People love Sam Raimi's films while acknowledging that they are full of cheese. They like his camp horror in the Evil Dead franchise, and his 2000s Spider-Man films are going to be some of the only superhero films anybody remembers well after we've forgotten about the hundreds of generic movies since then.

The Smiths are cheesy. But people who didn't grow up with their music are still wearing their t-shirts.

The problem with the new SP material isn't that it's cheesy. It's that it just doesn't sound good.

 
Disco King is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 01:16 PM   #289
Disco King
Minion of Satan
 
Disco King's Avatar
 
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ourruseoffools View Post
Cuz they r hyperFixated on fuzz guitars instead of badass songwriting with swag,,, SAD!
I dunno, I love how tired and defeated it sounds. The croaky voice, the economical keys. It adds to the emotion of the song.

I feel like some fans are less about the moody, atmospheric, weird parts of the band, and their favourite SP stuff is the traditional rock anthems and ballads. When you have a band that got it's sound by having one foot in arena rock/classic rock/traditional metal and psych, and the other foot in art rock/college radio/post punk/shoegaze, they're going to have diverse fans who like them for different reasons and disagree on which songs are good and which suck.

 
Disco King is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 01:18 PM   #290
Disco King
Minion of Satan
 
Disco King's Avatar
 
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,171
Default

Like, imagine not liking GatGC in it's epic, moody, goth-psych majesty, but liking LMGtWtY, which is a pretty boring pop ballad.

 
Disco King is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 01:18 PM   #291
paranoid
Minion of Satan
 
paranoid's Avatar
 
Location: up a tree
Posts: 6,034
Default

Once in a while should have been on adore instead of Annie dog. It’s just a better song. If Darcy was so great at convincing billy what is right vid wrong why did that happen? Why?!?

 
paranoid is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 01:19 PM   #292
Disco King
Minion of Satan
 
Disco King's Avatar
 
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,171
Default

Nah, Annie-Dog is better.

 
Disco King is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 01:22 PM   #293
Disco King
Minion of Satan
 
Disco King's Avatar
 
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,171
Default

You don't need "Once in a While" when you've already got "The Tale of Dusty and Pistol Pete" and "Once Upon a Time," accoustic songs that are much more musically interesting.

 
Disco King is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 01:26 PM   #294
Disco King
Minion of Satan
 
Disco King's Avatar
 
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by incubator View Post
MCIS was widely regarded as a bit of a bait & switch at the time. People bought it expecting more Zero or BWBW and got "some Elton John shit". It's one of those records that absolutely everyone bought but relatively few loved.
Remember when Corgan made the claim about people shitting on MCIS for having "some Elton John shit," and we got curious, wondering "who the fuck said that about MCIS," and we traced the claim to Corgan himself, when he claimed back in the '90s that the new album would have "some Elton John shit?"

Corgan's murderer was Corgan.

 
Disco King is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 01:28 PM   #295
ilikeplanets
Socialphobic
 
ilikeplanets's Avatar
 
Location: Ignore List
Posts: 14,868
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Goldberg View Post
lol, ok ms "maybe they were only good 'cause of the producers!!!"
That's not some long standing theory I've had....I just can't figure out how they could go from what they were to what they are.

 
ilikeplanets is online now
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 01:29 PM   #296
ilikeplanets
Socialphobic
 
ilikeplanets's Avatar
 
Location: Ignore List
Posts: 14,868
Default

I understand only having a finite ability to write amazing songs, but it's just so damn drastic

 
ilikeplanets is online now
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 01:29 PM   #297
Squish Squash
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Squish Squash's Avatar
 
Location: I should kick you in the sides
Posts: 1,780
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoid View Post
Once in a while should have been on adore instead of Annie dog. It’s just a better song. If Darcy was so great at convincing billy what is right vid wrong why did that happen? Why?!?
Probably because Annie-Dog isn’t a bad song. I didn’t say D’Arcy’s musical opinions were flawless either, but she clearly had a positive influence on Corgan musically.

 
Squish Squash is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 01:31 PM   #298
ilikeplanets
Socialphobic
 
ilikeplanets's Avatar
 
Location: Ignore List
Posts: 14,868
Default

The only measurable difference is too much freedom in production. But maybe the decline isn't due to a measurable factor. Forgive me for being science minded.

 
ilikeplanets is online now
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 01:32 PM   #299
Disco King
Minion of Satan
 
Disco King's Avatar
 
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,171
Default

Also, even if Wretzky had good taste that served to steer Corgan in the correct direction, it's not like she was present 24/7 and involved at every step of recording and track listing. I'm sure many decisions were made without her, especially as she began to check out more toward the end of the band's run. Doesn't really make sense to go, "if Wretzky's taste positively influenced the band's output, how come THIS song was released?"

 
Disco King is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 01:40 PM   #300
Disco King
Minion of Satan
 
Disco King's Avatar
 
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
The only measurable difference is too much freedom in production. But maybe the decline isn't due to a measurable factor. Forgive me for being science minded.
Yeah, I find it silly when people try to isolate some singular causal factor for Corgan sucking today.

"Perhaps the necessary and sufficient condition for Corgan to make good music is working with Chamberlin. But wait, Chamberlin was absent for Adore and present for Mary Star of the Sea and Shiny, so that hypothesis is refuted. Perhaps Iha is the key ingredient? But alas, Iha is back in the band, and the music still sucks. Clearly, it must be Wretzky!"

Like, sometimes people have it, and sometimes people lose it. I'm sure working with certain other people positively influences the output… so long as they give enough of a fuck to even make suggestions, and Corgan actually considers their opinions. If not, they'll just collect the cheque and avoid the headache of getting Corgan pissed at them, or Corgan'll just kick them out of the band, like he did Byrne (who probably at one point said, "I dunno, why don't we do something weirder and more interesting?")

There are probably a host of reasons Corgan doesn't make music like he used to, not a single overwhelming cause.

 
Disco King is offline
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Google


Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
quick! amazon sales tax in CA kicks in soon. need to buy headphones wHATcOLOR General Chat Archive 44 09-18-2012 03:07 AM
Michael Jackson's History kicks off MCIS from British Airways Essential Albums list RopeyLopey Pumpkins Archive 12 08-10-2009 02:57 PM
the letting go kicks ass mistle Music Board Archive 0 01-09-2008 08:32 AM
Atheist bassist falls through stage, comes right back out and plays again FearFactory Music Board Archive 38 07-26-2006 05:21 AM
Styx - Come Sail Away MusicMan4 Music Board Archive 3 07-21-2006 09:04 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:58 AM.




Smashing Pumpkins, Alternative Music
& General Discussion Message Board and Forums
www.netphoria.org - Copyright © 1998-2022