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Old 11-01-2018, 12:24 PM   #931
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I can just see Jonathan Monte (LDS, IT), hunched over a quadruple percolator ice bong, exhaling clouds of sinsemillian smoke, waving his hands in the air like he don't care, trailing his fingers in the icy Lake Michigan waters, searching for meaning, searching for light.

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 12:35 PM   #932
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Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
I can just see Jonathan Monte (LDS, IT), hunched over a quadruple percolator ice bong, exhaling clouds of sinsemillian smoke, waving his hands in the air like he don't care, trailing his fingers in the icy Lake Michigan waters, searching for meaning, searching for light.
Monte would never do drugs, he's too slow to figure out how to work a lighter

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 12:36 PM   #933
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well then he could use a candle

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 12:39 PM   #934
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I wouldn't trust Monte with anything flammable, much less IT-related

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 12:47 PM   #935
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I love that the Monte bashing is taking place in two threads now simulataneously. If he logs in here, he’s gonna kill himself.

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 06:01 PM   #936
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Just wait until when this boxset arrives and ends up being quadruple the price compared to Mellon Collie, Aeroplane, and Adore reissue boxsets. I would love to have it to complete my set, but I really do think he is gonna milk this as much as he can.
Sony made 5000 copies of an 18-CD boxset of EVERYTHING Dylan recorded for his three 60's rock albums
599$
didn't sell out
(or if it did, it took quite a while)

how delusional will corgan be?

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 06:11 PM   #937
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Originally Posted by johncg View Post
I love that the Monte bashing is taking place in two threads now simulataneously. If he logs in here, he’s gonna kill himself.
Losing Billy's respect, that might lead him to sell off some of his least desirable memorabilia. But losing the respect of netphoria... THAT will make him question whether he wants to keep living at all.

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 06:13 PM   #938
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Originally Posted by myosis View Post
Sony made 5000 copies of an 18-CD boxset of EVERYTHING Dylan recorded for his three 60's rock albums
599$
didn't sell out
(or if it did, it took quite a while)

how delusional will corgan be?
Youre asking "how delusional can he be" for something he hasn't even done yet?

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 06:23 PM   #939
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does anyone not have MonumentsRocks on ignore yet? i ask because we might as well mute them.

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 06:29 PM   #940
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all his negativity is bringing the board down.

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:02 PM   #941
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does anyone not have MonumentsRocks on ignore yet? i ask because we might as well mute them.
He's a he, dude. Only a male could be this dickish.

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:07 PM   #942
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Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
Only a male could be this dickish.
you wanna test that theory? I volunteer.

(btw, mister English grammar, "a male" is article+adjective=wrong, harharhar)

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:12 PM   #943
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noun
1.
a male person, plant, or animal.
"the audience consisted of adult males"

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:12 PM   #944
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that take! ha!

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:13 PM   #945
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source, please. because no, I don't take that.

"adult males" is like "small beautifuls, adult mediocres", this can't be correct.

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:16 PM   #946
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https://www.dictionary.com/browse/male

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:16 PM   #947
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hope we're still friends

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:17 PM   #948
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a proper source, please, mister "I am studying English", go away with dictionary.com

I take your "dictionary.com" and counter with huffpo, how about that.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/joshu...b_9604844.html

maybe next you can find a source that's anywhere near the degree you wanna get?

(how am I doing in the dickish-department so far?)

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:23 PM   #949
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Wow, that article…

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:24 PM   #950
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I found it.

"a male" - a man or a boy

thank you, oxford dictionary. that is insanity to me, but yes, I will accept it. you were correct!

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:25 PM   #951
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https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...earch-dict-box

this is the dictionary that i had to buy for my berkeley editing course.

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:26 PM   #952
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okay. maybe it shouldn't be a noun. and when i used it i sure wasn't thinking about whether it's an adjective or an adverb. i am pretty bad at grammar, you know. when i correct ppl in all caps and calling them imbecile swine and stuff i'm just being, well, tookish!

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:27 PM   #953
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now you have to explain your usage of it to me.

why would you say "only a male can be this dickish" instead of "only a guy/man can be this dickish", or is there no difference at all? or would you choose "male" to in.clude men & boys, so any age group?

oh fuck, I am so sorry, thread. I forgot for a minute (or 5) that this isn't the "learning English thread" and I promised to keep my nonsense to that topic. I'll see you there, hobbit.


back to you, Machina.

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:40 PM   #954
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I mean, I have noticed that it's a strange quirk of neckbeards to refer to women as "females" (for example, "Western females are so entitled, so I only date Asian females), but jumping from that to saying that using "female" as a noun is necessarily a micragression seems pretty odd, especially when I'm pretty sure "male" and "female" have always been accepted as nouns.

And if one truly insists upon the sex/gender distinction, then there would necessarily be some instances in which "male" and "female" would be the correct words to use, rather than "man" or "woman." Like, if we specifically mean to talk about sexes, and not genders.

And then the article actually lists of an example of how to use a word somebody mentioning the word instead of using it. Could you imagine if you opened up a dictionary for an example of how to use the word, and the example was "Tom spelt 'sequacious' correctly on a spelling test?"

The article could keep context in mind, and simply say that in some contexts, calling a person a "female" is going to make you sound awkward or isn't the appropriate word, and document how this mistake is often made by misogynists, but instead it makes a pretty wide and context-insensitive claim about how the very use of the word as a noun is a patriarchal micragression, probably more to signify that this male writer is totally enlightened about the sexism women face and is one of the "good guys," rather than to actually change people's language to be more respectful of others' dignity and feelings. Like, the claim that "female" is necessarily an objectifying term kinda implies that females are objects, and is also a ridiculous claim, because other than when applied metaphorically to tools and connectors (USB ports, for example), the terms "male" and "female" necessarily relate to, uh, living things, and not objects.

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:35 PM   #955
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It seems to me that Machina was the first time in Billy's career that he tried to satisfy his reach-for-the-stars grandiose-yet-incoherent planning urges that ended up falling flat on a newer, younger culture that had aged him out of their demographic and denied him the relevance he once knew.

When he told Butch Vig his vision for making an album that primarily lied on a foundation of some ridiculously hard-to-record Big Muff wall of fuzz sound, Butch Vig said, "Fuck. I mean... it's going to be near impossible, and it's going to fuck with the drum sound, and... okay. Let's give it a go."

When he told Flood that he wanted a fuckin double album so early in the band's career, Flood said, "Fuck. I mean... it's going to be quite a stretch to produce something that is across-the-board quality over the course of that many songs, and it's going to really look pretentious, and... okay. Let's give it ago."

When he told numerous producers that he wanted to take the band in an entirely different direction, stray from the loud rock, and make a softer, simpler acoustic album that dealt with his mom's death and Melvoin's death and that concert attendee's death and the death of friends and Jimmy's overdose/firing and etc, he finally got some pushback from people in the booth, people who disagreed with a lot of his plans and approaches and ideas. Sure. But all that did was lead Billy to ultimately abandon the producers and finish producing Adore by himself, claiming his "vision" wasn't able to be conceived by anyone but him.

So he gets his way. For years.

But then the Machina era begins. D'arcy tells him to go fuck himself and dips on the band, ruining the "true ending." All that Sharon Osborn shit went down. Virgin Records hates his ideas, hates how the new album is going, doesn't think the band is very relevant anymore. James and Jimmy can't give two fucks about trying to pretend there was "always" this ridiculous agreed upon plan to assume characters and tell some story that seriously looks like he mostly made up AFTER the album was released--not before. The world turns its back on him, causing him to blame "the Britneys of the world," etc, etc.

He tries to salvage shit from embarrassment by claiming that there was a huge mysterious story about the album that the world just simply wasn't smart enough to see and understand--to the point of staging a contest by which to have fans send in their guesses for what the "mystery" was about. All that did, as many of us cynically talked about here 18 years ago, was allow him to read through fan ideas and simply choose the theme he thought wrote the best "story" for the album, and then claim that that was what he had conceived of all along. He gave the fan tickets to the final Metro show, and called it good.

Scraps from Machina recording sessions become "pieces of the mystery." He even alluded to "clues" supposedly being hidden in past Pumpkins songs.

It all just fell so flat.

Since then, it's been one failed expectation after another. Zwan. TheFutureEmbrace. Blinking With Fists. Reviving the Pumpkins--but without the other 2 original members. Teargarden. 20th Anniversary shitstorm. Promises to "open up the archives." Hyper delayed releases and reissue boxsets. Mike Byrne.

...all blamed on things and people outside of himself.

Machina, then, really feels to me like the first time people unanimously tried to deny him, and the Billy-backlash of that is what the record sounds like, and what the record "supposedly" is about. It's just a mess.

Attempting to rewrite history seems like some sort of emotional coping mechanism for him whenever he experiences rejection.

All that said, I have high hopes for the Machina boxset. I'm incredibly disappointed that he so succintly shot down any inclusion of the final Metro show, be it video or audio... even it if is "disappointing" performance wise. But I have high hopes. I really do want him, and the band to succeed. It's just... hard to stay positive sometimes, when he has such a long track record of disappointing, bashing and rejecting his own fan base.

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:01 PM   #956
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I just want the tracks, preferably sans fuzz. None of the other stuff matters.

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:16 PM   #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myosis View Post
Sony made 5000 copies of an 18-CD boxset of EVERYTHING Dylan recorded for his three 60's rock albums
599$
didn't sell out
(or if it did, it took quite a while)

how delusional will corgan be?
One word...
Siddhartha

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:19 PM   #958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reyngel View Post
It seems to me that Machina was the first time in Billy's career that he tried to satisfy his reach-for-the-stars grandiose-yet-incoherent planning urges that ended up falling flat on a newer, younger culture that had aged him out of their demographic and denied him the relevance he once knew.

When he told Butch Vig his vision for making an album that primarily lied on a foundation of some ridiculously hard-to-record Big Muff wall of fuzz sound, Butch Vig said, "Fuck. I mean... it's going to be near impossible, and it's going to fuck with the drum sound, and... okay. Let's give it a go."

When he told Flood that he wanted a fuckin double album so early in the band's career, Flood said, "Fuck. I mean... it's going to be quite a stretch to produce something that is across-the-board quality over the course of that many songs, and it's going to really look pretentious, and... okay. Let's give it ago."

When he told numerous producers that he wanted to take the band in an entirely different direction, stray from the loud rock, and make a softer, simpler acoustic album that dealt with his mom's death and Melvoin's death and that concert attendee's death and the death of friends and Jimmy's overdose/firing and etc, he finally got some pushback from people in the booth, people who disagreed with a lot of his plans and approaches and ideas. Sure. But all that did was lead Billy to ultimately abandon the producers and finish producing Adore by himself, claiming his "vision" wasn't able to be conceived by anyone but him.

So he gets his way. For years.

But then the Machina era begins. D'arcy tells him to go fuck himself and dips on the band, ruining the "true ending." All that Sharon Osborn shit went down. Virgin Records hates his ideas, hates how the new album is going, doesn't think the band is very relevant anymore. James and Jimmy can't give two fucks about trying to pretend there was "always" this ridiculous agreed upon plan to assume characters and tell some story that seriously looks like he mostly made up AFTER the album was released--not before. The world turns its back on him, causing him to blame "the Britneys of the world," etc, etc.

He tries to salvage shit from embarrassment by claiming that there was a huge mysterious story about the album that the world just simply wasn't smart enough to see and understand--to the point of staging a contest by which to have fans send in their guesses for what the "mystery" was about. All that did, as many of us cynically talked about here 18 years ago, was allow him to read through fan ideas and simply choose the theme he thought wrote the best "story" for the album, and then claim that that was what he had conceived of all along. He gave the fan tickets to the final Metro show, and called it good.

Scraps from Machina recording sessions become "pieces of the mystery." He even alluded to "clues" supposedly being hidden in past Pumpkins songs.

It all just fell so flat.

Since then, it's been one failed expectation after another. Zwan. TheFutureEmbrace. Blinking With Fists. Reviving the Pumpkins--but without the other 2 original members. Teargarden. 20th Anniversary shitstorm. Promises to "open up the archives." Hyper delayed releases and reissue boxsets. Mike Byrne.

...all blamed on things and people outside of himself.

Machina, then, really feels to me like the first time people unanimously tried to deny him, and the Billy-backlash of that is what the record sounds like, and what the record "supposedly" is about. It's just a mess.

Attempting to rewrite history seems like some sort of emotional coping mechanism for him whenever he experiences rejection.

All that said, I have high hopes for the Machina boxset. I'm incredibly disappointed that he so succintly shot down any inclusion of the final Metro show, be it video or audio... even it if is "disappointing" performance wise. But I have high hopes. I really do want him, and the band to succeed. It's just... hard to stay positive sometimes, when he has such a long track record of disappointing, bashing and rejecting his own fan base.

I like it how Mike Byrne is just one sentence. No explanations necessary.

 
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:20 PM   #959
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I love that the Monte bashing is taking place in two threads now simulataneously. If he logs in here, he’s gonna kill himself.
He knows this board holds our band liasons to high standers.

Last edited by Ol' Couch Ass : 11-02-2018 at 05:49 AM.

 
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Old 11-02-2018, 02:33 AM   #960
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Originally Posted by Reyngel View Post
It seems to me that Machina was the first time in Billy's career that he tried to satisfy his reach-for-the-stars grandiose-yet-incoherent planning urges that ended up falling flat on a newer, younger culture that had aged him out of their demographic and denied him the relevance he once knew.

When he told Butch Vig his vision for making an album that primarily lied on a foundation of some ridiculously hard-to-record Big Muff wall of fuzz sound, Butch Vig said, "Fuck. I mean... it's going to be near impossible, and it's going to fuck with the drum sound, and... okay. Let's give it a go."

When he told Flood that he wanted a fuckin double album so early in the band's career, Flood said, "Fuck. I mean... it's going to be quite a stretch to produce something that is across-the-board quality over the course of that many songs, and it's going to really look pretentious, and... okay. Let's give it ago."

When he told numerous producers that he wanted to take the band in an entirely different direction, stray from the loud rock, and make a softer, simpler acoustic album that dealt with his mom's death and Melvoin's death and that concert attendee's death and the death of friends and Jimmy's overdose/firing and etc, he finally got some pushback from people in the booth, people who disagreed with a lot of his plans and approaches and ideas. Sure. But all that did was lead Billy to ultimately abandon the producers and finish producing Adore by himself, claiming his "vision" wasn't able to be conceived by anyone but him.

So he gets his way. For years.

But then the Machina era begins. D'arcy tells him to go fuck himself and dips on the band, ruining the "true ending." All that Sharon Osborn shit went down. Virgin Records hates his ideas, hates how the new album is going, doesn't think the band is very relevant anymore. James and Jimmy can't give two fucks about trying to pretend there was "always" this ridiculous agreed upon plan to assume characters and tell some story that seriously looks like he mostly made up AFTER the album was released--not before. The world turns its back on him, causing him to blame "the Britneys of the world," etc, etc.

He tries to salvage shit from embarrassment by claiming that there was a huge mysterious story about the album that the world just simply wasn't smart enough to see and understand--to the point of staging a contest by which to have fans send in their guesses for what the "mystery" was about. All that did, as many of us cynically talked about here 18 years ago, was allow him to read through fan ideas and simply choose the theme he thought wrote the best "story" for the album, and then claim that that was what he had conceived of all along. He gave the fan tickets to the final Metro show, and called it good.

Scraps from Machina recording sessions become "pieces of the mystery." He even alluded to "clues" supposedly being hidden in past Pumpkins songs.

It all just fell so flat.

Since then, it's been one failed expectation after another. Zwan. TheFutureEmbrace. Blinking With Fists. Reviving the Pumpkins--but without the other 2 original members. Teargarden. 20th Anniversary shitstorm. Promises to "open up the archives." Hyper delayed releases and reissue boxsets. Mike Byrne.

...all blamed on things and people outside of himself.

Machina, then, really feels to me like the first time people unanimously tried to deny him, and the Billy-backlash of that is what the record sounds like, and what the record "supposedly" is about. It's just a mess.

Attempting to rewrite history seems like some sort of emotional coping mechanism for him whenever he experiences rejection.

All that said, I have high hopes for the Machina boxset. I'm incredibly disappointed that he so succintly shot down any inclusion of the final Metro show, be it video or audio... even it if is "disappointing" performance wise. But I have high hopes. I really do want him, and the band to succeed. It's just... hard to stay positive sometimes, when he has such a long track record of disappointing, bashing and rejecting his own fan base.
I agree with a lot of this, except the stuff about the Machina story being an afterthought- the first of those pretenscioud ‘Shards of Glass’ is in the Machina booklet, and there are songs (GATGC) that are an undeniable part of that story and only work in that context?

 
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