When will we admit Oceania rules?

[LoveIsSuicide42]

Oceania is kind of a weird one for me. I loved it when it was brand new and heralded it as the true return of the band after how lame and disappointing Zeitgeist and TbK were. I saw it as Billy maturing; yes, it felt pretty bland compared to their old stuff, but it seemed appropriate to mellow out given his age... plus Zeitgeist tried to be the big heavy rock album and I thought it sucked. Oceania felt like a good album and a firm step in the right direction. I think I thought it was better than Machina at the time, but I would never say that now.

I saw SP three times with the lineup and they went from sounding like crap in 2011 to being one of the best concerts I saw all year in 2012 (and I went to a lot of shows back then). I was really disappointed when Mike and Nicole were dismissed from the band, and found it very off-putting how shady the whole situation felt. No, I was not particularly attached to either of them but I did like that they sounded like an actual band on Oceania, and I thought that maybe they had a chance to get better with a few more albums. I was willing to give Billy a chance to restart the narrative with Oceania, but it felt like he rejected it as an album with the way the band shifted... It really soured me, and then I hated Monuments once it came out. That was kind of my breaking point with thinking SP might be genuinely great again.

I say good shit about ATUM, and I do really enjoy most of it. But when you recognize that SP was putting out elite, decade defining music in the 90s, it really pales by comparison, to put it very lightly. The original SP music I would defend and promote to no end. But, I won't really give that to ATUM. I like a lot of it, because I love Billy's songwriting and approach to melody, but there are dozens of reasons I would expect every day folks to just find it annoying and laughable. Nevertheless, I think I would be more willing to defend ATUM than Oceania. Oceania is pretty good as a full album; it's cohesive, it has a good amount of variety, and the performances and production are fine. However, the individual songs.... just do not do it for me most of the time anymore. They do not have hooks or staying power, and once the excitement of it being a new start for SP wore off, I just found that I didn't really care about it anymore. It is far and away their most boring album, even if it isn't their worst.

[ilikeplanets]

Genuinely curious which Atum tracks you find to have a good sense of melody and exciting hooks. I'm not shading, I just don't hear it and wanna know where others do hear that.

[GreenDogGlynis]

Genuinely good stuff on Oceania. I understand points about the proggy-ness, it can be distant at times, but I think Panopticon, Pinwheels, Chimera, and Pale Horse are all legit good. Inkless is a great song and SP1 tier

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

Yeah but that second guy can you get you a smokin deal on a gently used 2019 Honda CR-V, with low mileage, low apr and low monthly payments. Can Mikey do that??

"That was a new 3.6 turbo, which of course I wish I still had because those cars are going for crazy money now," he says.

[Shadaloo]

It's your given mid-period post success album. It ain't bad, but it doesn't hit the heights of their old stuff. Highlight of the period.

[ninsp]

ATUM is irredeemable. If you think ATUM is even listenable, then I have some snake oil to sell you.

[Ram27]

i got into the pumpkins in high school around oceania era. i enjoyed it basically just as well as the old stuff i heard on greatest hits at first. but as i explored the catalog deeper [and got better at playing drums] it grew more and more separate from the golden era

i distinctly remember hating 'eye' and all the weird electronic stuff on rotten apples lol

[Elphenor]

Oceania was OK to pretty cool

it's not SP1 material

but it was better than ZG by a country mile

[LoveIsSuicide42]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

Genuinely curious which Atum tracks you find to have a good sense of melody and exciting hooks. I'm not shading, I just don't hear it and wanna know where others do hear that.

Well, I hear a lot of catchiness all over the album (it's not necessarily always a good thing, but it can be). But I think if I had to point to one spot, it would be to Avalanche. Intro aside, the whole thing is so well crafted. I thought it sounded like a jumbled mess the first few times I listened, but really, it pulls off some pretty interesting things... Billy did talk about it on the podcast, how it has a "descending chorus." I really did like that element about it...it sort of anchors the song in a way. But it does get to let loose a bit, too. The whole thing works together to give me that "soaring" feeling that some mellon collie tracks do. There are so many good vocal parts... "It looks lke a dream, but feels like a fright" "theyll stamp out his name, but slowwwlyyyyyyyyyyyyyy". I don't know. I genuintly really love that one.

I don't know. On the whole, I just find Atum to be very interesting. To me, that's almost more important than it being good or bad. It's kind of good like Tommy Wiseau's The Room is good. Does that make sense?

[ilikeplanets]

Well, I literally watch The Room in shock and mild horror yet I love it. So I can see your point, but Atum just doesn't stir any emotion in me like The Room does. That's interesting, though!

[LoveIsSuicide42]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

Well, I literally watch The Room in shock and mild horror yet I love it. So I can see your point, but Atum just doesn't stir any emotion in me like The Room does. That's interesting, though!

Part of the enjoyment of The Room comes from the idea that a human, THIS human, thought these things he's portraying on screen were a good idea to put into a major motion picture with Oscar ambitions.

With ATUM, there are just times where it is just hilarious that BILLY CORGAN thinks this is a good idea to put to record. And I think if you can roll with it that way, it starts to become more enjoyable.