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Old 12-01-2022, 04:12 AM   #121
VoxUpDoc
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Even if she had a team orchestrating everything (and that team in recent years has been The National, Bon Iver and Bleachers, who all “slap” btw) - Glenn Campbell didn’t write Wichita Lineman and nobody gives a fuck. It’s ultimately about the end product.

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 04:14 AM   #122
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I mean are we certain Willy didnít use a ghost writer for MCIS cos Iím listening to ATUM and Iím not seeing the linkÖ

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 04:50 AM   #123
ilikeplanets
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So regarding this episode of the podcast

Did anyone else catch when Billy insinuated that everything before Adore is music for uncultured teenagers

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 05:42 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
So regarding this episode of the podcast

Did anyone else catch when Billy insinuated that everything before Adore is music for uncultured teenagers
If cultured means bland, boring, soulless, paint by numbers songwriting and performance, I'll take uncultured any day.

Oh, yes, Billy, that is your problem. The adult child who sadly rides choo choo trains, plays wrestling, calls transwomen he/she ugly pigs, and steals people's coloring books is too cultured.

Last edited by MyKeyZ : 12-01-2022 at 05:50 AM.

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 05:49 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
So regarding this episode of the podcast

Did anyone else catch when Billy insinuated that everything before Adore is music for uncultured teenagers
Yea the album which hops around genres with many literary references is the “uncultured” album.

And not the drab slog about long horses and whores.

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 06:07 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
So regarding this episode of the podcast

Did anyone else catch when Billy insinuated that everything before Adore is music for uncultured teenagers
I didn't catch that bit but yeah makes sense + not necessarily an insult coming from Him considering His true love (wrestling).

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 06:10 AM   #127
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well kids, you got me.

i really disliked avalanche after the first listen, but after 5 takes i really dig it.

it is one of the best songs so far , from atum.


well i go thru a lot of feelings at the moment - jeez

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 12:05 PM   #128
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It's clear that brothabigcoq4u's defenses are worn down and he will ultimately succumb to any Corgan atrocity no matter how much he initially protests.

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 12:12 PM   #129
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he's so aggressively closeted with his modern-day corgan love god damnit brotha it's okay

we will still LOVE you

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 12:50 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by VoxUpDoc View Post
I mean are we certain Willy didnít use a ghost writer for MCIS cos Iím listening to ATUM and Iím not seeing the linkÖ
pretty sure Courtney Love was ghostwriting half the album

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 01:06 PM   #131
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pretty sure Courtney Love was ghostwriting half the album
Yep you can definitely hear Kurdt's dick influence looming all over MCIS, pretty sure that's what gives it the edge over the competition.

Also that's why Bolly hates it so much.

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 02:51 PM   #132
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Jokes aside, it really does seem like BC hates the rock based albums ( pre Adore, before the "necessary shift" [his words]) and I don't understand how or why

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 03:22 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by VoxUpDoc View Post
I mean are we certain Willy didnít use a ghost writer for MCIS cos Iím listening to ATUM and Iím not seeing the linkÖ
Years ago, I'd say back in 2005, I found an interview with a journalist who claimed he found out Billy ripped off an old, obscure poet. I remember I read a few poems and they were not only similar to his lyrics, but Billy used like full lines and verses, sometimes only changing a few words. He was like "when Billy wrote Mellon Collie, we basically had no internet. He probably came across this old book of poems by a fairly unknown poet and thought nobody would know he was stealing from him. A few years later, the internet happened and we could find just about everything online".

The journalist said he questioned Billy but got no reply. He also said he had no problem with artists using somebody else's work, that it was a common practice etc, but he had a problem with Billy not giving any credits to the artist. I remember he said something like "especially Billy, who likes to take all the credits".

Did I save the interview? Of course not

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 03:26 PM   #134
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Was that him using lines from “Night” by Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel?


Listessa> Was MCIS influenced by the writing of Elie Wiesel?

BC> (I) never even heard of him nor read any of his work. (I) was deeply
insulted by the accusation of lyrical plagiarism. Anyone who knows me
knows i would never be that lame. A guitar riff, maybe, but not
words. There are only 12 notes, but a million words.”

Further reading:
https://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=137588

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 03:31 PM   #135
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Did I save the interview? Of course not
So just peeling back the curtain here, a lot of the intelligent stuff about MCIS attributed to Billy was just ripped off from another dude, and thatís why his recent work is much weaker (especially his lyrics post Zwan) and probably why heís rummaging around in the 1930ís for ideas to rip.

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 03:51 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Forgotten Child View Post
Did I save the interview? Of course not
looking for info on that speculation I came across the story that Billy apparently sued Ed Roland of Collective Soul claiming Shine, an absolute all time banger, was a rip off of Drown or Rhinoceros. Billy lost. Lmao

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 03:55 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
Was that him using lines from ďNightĒ by Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel?

ď
Listessa> Was MCIS influenced by the writing of Elie Wiesel?

BC> (I) never even heard of him nor read any of his work. (I) was deeply
insulted by the accusation of lyrical plagiarism. Anyone who knows me
knows i would never be that lame. A guitar riff, maybe, but not
words. There are only 12 notes, but a million words.Ē

Further reading:
https://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=137588
Didnít see any quotes that screamed rip off here.

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 04:02 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
Was that him using lines from “Night” by Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel?


Listessa> Was MCIS influenced by the writing of Elie Wiesel?

BC> (I) never even heard of him nor read any of his work. (I) was deeply
insulted by the accusation of lyrical plagiarism. Anyone who knows me
knows i would never be that lame. A guitar riff, maybe, but not
words. There are only 12 notes, but a million words.”

Further reading:
https://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=137588
No it wasn't that one nor Robert Herrick, thetre something about one of his poems being compared to Tonight Tonight as well.

He used a few lines to write Porcelina, Tonight Tonight, jelly belly... I think those are the ones I remember...

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 05:57 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
Billy insinuated that everything before Adore is music for uncultured teenagers
i kind of agree

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 06:09 PM   #140
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I vaguely remember Corgan saying something a few years ago that made it seem like he didn't like Adore. I'm sure he just says shit sometimes.

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 06:09 PM   #141
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i kind of agree
No one thinks you’re cool for saying this

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 06:31 PM   #142
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No one thinks you’re cool for saying this
i like it that way

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 06:43 PM   #143
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Taylor is music for uncultured teenagers so you’re just trading one for the other I guess.

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 07:14 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by ourruseoffools View Post
i kind of agree
Sincerely?

I hope Billy did actually plagiarize those songs because that hurts less than someone who wrote Hummer and XYU turning into someone who wrote Beguiled.

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 07:16 PM   #145
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I actually think Billy might just be trashing the music up until Adore because he can't write like that again and has to act like he's less proud of those songs to make it seem like his inability to reach that level again is a conscious choice.

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 07:29 PM   #146
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Question for ourruseoffools:

What about Smashing Pumpkins do you like enough to seek out a message board if you think the music from 88-98 is for uncultured teenagers? Or is it that your consider your own tastes (and all of ours) limited and terrible?

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 07:33 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
I actually think Billy might just be trashing the music up until Adore because he can't write like that again and has to act like he's less proud of those songs to make it seem like his inability to reach that level again is a conscious choice.
yeah i've thought about this also in terms of fear or doubt.

I do believe that there is a sincere desire to evolve what the band is at the heart of their new sound. I admire it even though the music doesn't make me feel as intensely. I also suspect there is a larger 'we control the narrative of who we are' type of thing happening with Cyr and Atum which I also like the spirit of. As stubborn as it is, there is an alternative undertone to it, there is something being said. Right on. But I like both Cyr and Atum so that factors into how I'm reading it.

But you have to think that if its really top-of-the world success he is after, the path seems easier to me with a return to the pre-adore sound. He must know that, right?

I think he can still write like that again (or at least I want to believe it), but I can imagine a tremendous amount of resistance from the inner enemy. What if he tries but can't? What if he gives it everything he's got and its not as good as the best he's done? That's a scary thing to face as a professional artist.

Weirdly, it is a form of selling out if you never evolve or take creative risks. It's also a bit of a cop out to say you are always evolving and will never return to the sound that everybody loves more than anything else you've ever done. Art is hard.

 
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Old 12-01-2022, 07:56 PM   #148
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Did I save the interview? Of course not
yeah but see we're gonna need that interview, so..

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 02:33 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
Question for ourruseoffools:

What about Smashing Pumpkins do you like enough to seek out a message board if you think the music from 88-98 is for uncultured teenagers? Or is it that your consider your own tastes (and all of ours) limited and terrible?
adore>mcis>machina>>>>>>>>>>sd/pieces/gish/pregish

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 02:36 AM   #150
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i see what hes saying tho that adore was a big leap in songwriting maturity that continued with machina but breathed its dying breaths on zwan before becoming a different beast entirely...

 
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