Racism, Probably a repeat

Originally posted by Mayfuck:
And this is where you stumble. First off, why did you put culture in quotation marks? Are you somehow trying to invalidate it? And second...if a white person does it...they're automatically a member of the KKK Here is my problem with this thread. You're being too technical about this racial issue. This country has had too far a complex history regarding racial matters to simply see things in black and white (no pun intended!!1) which is what you're doing with your we're-all-Americans rhetoric. You complained that it's not okay for white people to display their culture, when actually it is okay as long as it's done under an ethnic guise i.e. Russian pride, Scottish pride. Go wear a kilt to school. Or whatever it is that your ethnic predecessors do.

Second of all, you also disapproved of Black History Month and funds for minorities. I bet you also disapprove of BET. Once again the concept of minority is lost on you. In a country where the white male dominates and acting white is the norm (C'mon, you see it in sitcoms, business, everywhere. Do you see the president speaking ebonics in a wop accent?) So it's normal for minorities to feel isolated and "different" than the cultural norm. This is why we have things like Black History Month and Cesar Chavez Day. Furthermore they are accepted on an official and national basis to ease that cultural isolation. Plus, throw in about 200 years of oppression and it also serves as a form of reperation. But most of all it's recognition, because minorities aren't found easily in mainstream American culture.

I understand what your saying
and I partially agree with it,
good stuff,

mayfuck and smack me in the mouth: you hit on all the points. my post was kinda hasty, and pretty unclear.

Originally posted by melancholia:
Which is why I don't believe we need affirmative action anymore, we have virtually achieved pure equality

no, we do need affirmative action. the little study i pointed to shows that minorities (asians being an exception) have negative associations tacked onto them. affirmative actions serves as a way to counterbalance this systematic error.

we certainly haven't achieved pure equality either. living in a suburban middle to upper-class town tells me otherwise. if your typical citizen of brecksville sees a black person walking around, they'll lock their car doors. furthermore, the cops are bound to harass the black guy. i mean, he's obviously up to no good.

Originally posted by melancholia:
but finding racial categories to put people into, just divides the lines...

that's one of the biggest problems in america... no one sees us as actually being one, united people... which is what this country is founded on... one united people. but no, we see ourselves as colors, and nationalities...we set ourselves against one another because we're too afraid to lose face and get the fuck along.

ok, i'm going to try to explain this, but i don't think i'm going to be able to.

racial catagories are not important to white people because they represent the standard. the assumed standard. if you ask a group of people, mostly white, some minority, to tell you who they are (i.e. what makes them themselves), practically no white person will point out the fact that they're white. peculiar, isn't it? especially since minorities will make a point that they're of a different race.

white pride is an unsaid thing. why? because they're a majority. a cultural standard. all of us who are white (myself included - i'm half white, half asian) silently speak this.

taken in such a context, minorities who speak out and display their pride aren't being loud or drawing unnecessary attention to themselves, they're people who are showing the same level of confidence and assuredness with their race that white people are. it's just that minorities have to say it.

[This message has been edited by theonemofo (edited 02-03-2002).]

Originally posted by Mayfuck:
Second of all, you also disapproved of Black History Month and funds for minorities. I bet you also disapprove of BET. Once again the concept of minority is lost on you. In a country where the white male dominates and acting white is the norm (C'mon, you see it in sitcoms, business, everywhere. Do you see the president speaking ebonics in a wop accent?) So it's normal for minorities to feel isolated and "different" than the cultural norm. This is why we have things like Black History Month and Cesar Chavez Day. Furthermore they are accepted on an official and national basis to ease that cultural isolation. Plus, throw in about 200 years of oppression and it also serves as a form of reperation. But most of all it's recognition, because minorities aren't found easily in mainstream American culture.

As long as you in the minority continue to bitch about 200 years of oppression and all that shit, as long as you insist on not letting the past go, you will forever be kept out of positions of high power in mainstream America.

Only when you guys truly, truly decide to fuck what happened in the past, and to dedicate yourselves to breaking down these biased doors will you truly be accepted for what you are.

The big problem in 2002 is that you in the minority races don't have jack shit when it comes to a real leader who can lead the way in pushing down these barriers for you. Most of you vote Democratic party, there is no leader whatsoever in that party right now. It's a bunch of fucking clowns vying for control. And you certainly don't have an MLK at this time.

So I would suggest and hope that you will one day say "fuck it" to all this shit that happened in the past and go out and do your own thing instead of constantly bitching about it and using it for excuses. All this reparation shit used to gain govt. money and what not. You are only ever going to go as far as you're willing to work for. And I know for a fact that you, Mayfuck, haven't reached this point yet, considering you're right now just a dropout who spends his time on the computer all day when he could be out making opportunity for himself.

Mhm.

Garrett, (Or am I talking to Bill? Who knows.) I see the point you are trying to make. Regarding the WTC fund raising for minorities, it goes back to the cultural isolation thing I was talking about in my other post. If you go back several decades when racism was more blatant, sometimes the only friends victims of oppression had were members of their own race. This cultural unity, I think, carries over generations, so when you see black people raising funds for other black people, it's done for symbolic purposes out of cultural unity, and not to smite white people or 'segregate' themselves from humanity.

(Aren't all WTC victims' families getting at least like 1.6 million dollars a pop anyway?)

http://www.ananova.com/images/news/m...gAP372x500.jpg

Originally posted by melancholia:
for the record, i am a liberal.

...and i believe that all races should be treated 100% equally... and they're not...

i live in NY, one of the most diverse places in the world, one of the places in the world where you can make it, no matter who you are, as long as you work hard...

but you can not walk around anywhere in this city without hearing some minority screaming about his or her opression... maybe i'm blind, but i don't see any opression.

i went to public school, i worked hard, my (black) friend is in Yale right now, I'm not. He worked harder. THAT- is equality.

Which is why I don't believe we need affirmative action anymore, we have virtually achieved pure equality, but finding racial categories to put people into, just divides the lines.

My friends father (a white NYFD) died in the trade center... I was down there digging for people I knew... why do minorites have their own fund? Did they not all bleed and die together that day? Every family deserves retrobution, none more than another. Everyone has suffered. Regardless of color. It *is* racist on the part of some minority figures to isolate "their" people...

that's one of the biggest problems in america... no one sees us as actually being one, united people... which is what this country is founded on... one united people. but no, we see ourselves as colors, and nationalities...we set ourselves against one another because we're too afraid to lose face and get the fuck along.

excuse the rant... saw my history prof. today.

alow me to add some further disscusion.

i was raised in charleston sc
down here whites for the most part hate and fear blacks, problem with cable, blame the blacks, problems with traffic blame the blacks, stubed your toe going to the bathroom at 4 am blame the blacks.

i moved to west virgina, cause im a moron, but one thing i realized, is that there is no racicm in west virgina, the first day i waas there my black neighbor came out talked to me we became friends, he was married to a white girl they had a kid, and even though i had to kick his ass a few times cause he had a penchant fro getting drunk and smacking his wife, he was good people. my boss a black guy 2nd day on the job i was wearing my helmet t shirt he was like dude helmet rules we became great friends.

the point is as i see it vest virgina, poor coal mining town, everyone has been a miner, or has a miner in there family and it really shows in how people dont see colors, they see people, in SC there are 2 kinds of people rich white people (ie slave owners) and poor people (ie slaves) the poor white people hate the blacks for keeping them poor, the blacks blame the whites for keeping them poor, and the rich blame the blacks for crime, so it seems to me that a lot of it comes from money.
of course i could be wrong.

jsut my 10 cents

Originally posted by theonemofo:
no, we do need affirmative action. the little study i pointed to shows that minorities (asians being an exception) have negative associations tacked onto them. affirmative actions serves as a way to counterbalance this systematic error.

No, it doesn't. Any time you implement a system where you give a job to a lesser qualified candidate, which does happen sometimes, you are automatically creating more problems than you're trying to solve. See my last post. If you constantly insist on having the rules fixed in your favor instead of taking the initiative yourself to create opportunity, then you will never reach the top.

I hate to break this to you, but the entire universe is built on the premise of "survival of the fittest, brightest, and strongest". No affirmative action program can fuck with science. So get over it.

Originally posted by Mayfuck:
Mhm.

Garrett, (Or am I talking to Bill? Who knows.) I see the point you are trying to make. Regarding the WTC fund raising for minorities, it goes back to the cultural isolation thing I was talking about in my other post. If you go back several decades when racism was more blatant, sometimes the only friends victims of oppression had were members of their own race. This cultural unity, I think, carries over generations, so when you see black people raising funds for other black people, it's done for symbolic purposes out of cultural unity, and not to smite white people or 'segregate' themselves from humanity.

(Aren't all WTC victims' families getting at least like 1.6 million dollars a pop anyway?)

its Garrett(thx for remembering)
but i think this crosses the cultural unity line so to speak.

and you are right about the "This cultural unity, I think, carries over generations"
but the only way we as humans/people/North americans or any other label, are going to smite racial hate is to let go of the past a little and embrace unity in general, therefore letting go of the sterotypes, and the different styles of kkk clubs ect,
I'm not saying get rid of our cultures or our diversity, there would be no point in that. That in itself would destroy anything interesting on this planet.

(Probably, but if you think about it racial and religious problems caused this anyway)

I'm off to bed
Best thread responces I think I could have gotten,(except for that bigot thing)

[quote]Originally posted by ******:

I suggest you all read Native Son by Richard Wright. It tackles the situation perfectly. It's a nice read, too.

Great book. If you haven't read it already, check out 'Black Boy'. He is one of my favorite authors.

Chris Carter
[email protected]

Originally posted by Comedy Doesn't Pay:
I hate to break this to you, but the entire universe is built on the premise of "survival of the fittest, brightest, and strongest". No affirmative action program can fuck with science. So get over it.

If this is the case, why are we even bothering with society? I'd like to go kill my neighbor and take his car, but damn it, those stupid murder laws are preventing me from culling the herd and making sure the car gets the owner it deserves.

Originally posted by Smack Me In My Mouth:
If this is the case, why are we even bothering with society? I'd like to go kill my neighbor and take his car, but damn it, those stupid murder laws are preventing me from culling the herd and making sure the car gets the owner it deserves.

Sorry, I didn't get the analogy whatsoever.

Originally posted by Comedy Doesn't Pay:
Sorry, I didn't get the analogy whatsoever.

Better luck next time.

Originally posted by Smack Me In My Mouth:
White people already control our society; we're bombarded by "white propoganda" every day, as Theonemofo and Mayfuck pointed out, but white people still get uncomfortable when minorities exert and support their cultures. To me, that's still racism--you might not be lynching or persecuting anyone, but just because the symptoms are more subtle doesn't mean the disease has vanished.

Similar to when minorities get uncomfortable when the majority exerts and supports its culture; i.e. displaying the Confederate Flag. Both could be classified under 'racism'.

Chris Carter
[email protected]

Originally posted by Comedy Doesn't Pay:
As long as you in the minority continue to bitch about 200 years of oppression and all that shit, as long as you insist on not letting the past go, you will forever be kept out of positions of high power in mainstream America.

Only when you guys truly, truly decide to fuck what happened in the past, and to dedicate yourselves to breaking down these biased doors will you truly be accepted for what you are.

The big problem in 2002 is that you in the minority races don't have jack shit when it comes to a real leader who can lead the way in pushing down these barriers for you. Most of you vote Democratic party, there is no leader whatsoever in that party right now. It's a bunch of fucking clowns vying for control. And you certainly don't have an MLK at this time.

So I would suggest and hope that you will one day say "fuck it" to all this shit that happened in the past and go out and do your own thing instead of constantly bitching about it and using it for excuses. All this reparation shit used to gain govt. money and what not. You are only ever going to go as far as you're willing to work for. And I know for a fact that you, Mayfuck, haven't reached this point yet, considering you're right now just a dropout who spends his time on the computer all day when he could be out making opportunity for himself.

Hey, you know what? I mostly agree with you. I haven't touched this issue because it's really a spin off of the issue at hand. Minorities have some serious problems in their communities, I'm not gonna deny that. We're in dire need of a Martin Luther King. Jesse Jackson used to be a decent civil rights leader, now he's a media whore. But on the subject of reperation and minorities "bitching" about being oppressed...NEWSFLASH: oppression still goes on but in more subtle ways as Smack Me In My Mouth already pointed out. And it's not just the clothes you wear I'm talking about, it's the general attitude toward minorities in this country. You can't ignore 200 years of oppression. Things like slavery, segregation, a type of indentured servitude (which is basically what happens to poor immigrants) done to certain minorities? It has placed them at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder and they we're never able to climb it until the 60's when this country decided to get serious about civil rights. But by then, it's already been too late. Projects, ghettos, barrios were already numerous and the general consensus of minorities living there is that crime rules, schools are dilapidated, they have no where to go, so why bother? It's a struggle to get out of communities like that because mainstream America often ignores and frowns upon these areas. Places like that still exist desptie the progress we've made. Nice little comment about me you made there that, only half the story, eventually had nothing to do with the argument at hand. I've already been assimilated into mainstream America (surbuban house, parents' six digit salary) if that's what you're getting at http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/tongue.gif

My point is, throughout our fucked up treatment of certain races throughout history, an effect has occured where groups of people have been conditioned to fail and only recently have we been trying to shake these conditions off. Some reparations have to be made to balance thes things out.

And if it means anything, I oppose affirmative action. :shrug:

Originally posted by carter:
Similar to when minorities get uncomfortable when the majority exerts and supports its culture; i.e. displaying the Confederate Flag. Both could be classified under 'racism'.

Chris Carter
[email protected]

Eh, not really. You can associate southern heritage with the Confederate Flag. You can also associate slavery and oppression with it, which is something you can't do with a sombrero or a Dashiki.

Originally posted by Mayfuck:
Eh, not really. You can associate southern heritage with the Confederate Flag. You can also associate slavery and oppression with it, which is something you can't do with a sombrero or a Dashiki.

So your saying Black Entertainment Television can not be interpreted as promoting segregation? Or Puffy doing a benefit concert that excludes non-blacks as segregation?

Chris Carter
[email protected]

Allow me to add my 2 cents.

There is racism in America. It's kind of hard to ignore when you've got white guys running around waving confederate flags and talking about "lynchin' us some niggers". But, racism is not something that comes solely from white people. It's a problem that exists in the hearts and minds of all people of all cultures and unfortunately, will probably never completely go away.

I don't believe we need a Black History Month. If people don't think there's enough in our history books about non-whites, then they should petition to get more put in. What shouldn't happen is that out of a history book that's 600 pages, it's evenly divided up based upon race.

Affirmitive Action? I don't believe in it. It just allows people that could possibly not be as qualified to get into a job based on their race.

BET? I wish they would call it by a different name. Calling it BLACK (hey, what happened to AFRICAN AMERICAN?) Entertainment Television just opens the door for more racism. They should just change the name to WB http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/wink.gif

Speaking of "African American", I don't like the term. You can say I'm not PC, but if I'm not gonna call a white guy European American, you can be sure I'm not gonna call a black guy African American. To French people, we are Americans... but what are their own people to themselves? Do they call themselves French, or are they like us when we use the terms "black" and "white"?

I'm not saying that we should forget what's happened in the past (you know that quote, "those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it"), but the issue shouldn't be brought up as an excuse to get things in someone's favor.

Anyway... we're all a part of a race that's more important than "white", "black", "brown" or "green"... and as cheesy as it sounds... it's called the human race.



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http://raversaregay.homestead.com/files/USA.gif
You are such a pack donkey

Ooh, ooh, intelligent discussion on Netphoria! (Sorry, had to be said.) Not that I'm really going to contribute anything intelligent, mostly because a lot of what I would want to say has already been quite eloquently covered by Julio, Ian, et al. Just wanted to throw out a concept called "White Privilege", a term I haven't seen mentioned yet, although a lot of people have been talking about it.

There's a great article on it here, which almost none of you will read (but it's really short, I promise!)...But the basic idea is that white people in our culture have some (okay, lots of) generally unstated privileges and advantages conferred upon them, simply by virtue of our being white in a white-dominated culture. They're the kind of things that have probably never even occured to you, because they're so ingrained as to be invisble. For example (from the article):

"

[*]I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed. [*]I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented. [*]When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is. [*]I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair. [*]I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals,the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race. [*]I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group. [*]I can choose blemish cover or bandages in flesh color and have them more or less match my skin.[/list]"

I know people are going to claim some of these things are insignificant, but the point is the greater trend they illustrate: that in our culture, White is considered the default, while everything else is a deviation from the norm. Racism and inequality do still exist in our culture. However, rather than the overt "Let's lynch us some o' dem niggers" attitude that today's enlightened liberals associate with "racists", racism is a subtle and hugely pervasive underpinning of the entire American cultural system. In fact, it's so well and deeply ingrained as to be pretty much invisible, unless you're specifically looking for it. Or you're not white.

Because racism has been so institutionalized as to be invisible, it's easy to get away with "I'm not a racist, some of my best friends are Black!" Over the past thirty years, America has worked very hard to make racism eminently easy for you to ignore. But that doesn't mean it no longer exists, or that your Black best friends don't have to deal with it every day of their lives.

You don't have to be a "racist" to perpetuate racism. All you have to do is be White. If you're White, you get White Privilege. We don't have to ask for it, or even know we have it, it's still there, and its mere existence perpetuates inequality. I know that's going to piss a lot of people off, but look at it this way: I'm not trying to intimate that you're necessarily a racist simply because you're White. I'm trying to point out that the system is using you as a tool, very effectively, without your knowledge, and (at least, I'd hope, in most cases) against your will, to perpetuate oppression. I don't know about you, but I'm pretty pissed about that.

The thing is, the way for White people to perpetuate less oppression in our culture is for us to 1) be aware of our privilege and 2) work to give some of it up. And it's hard. Society won't ever let us give all of it up, at least not as individuals, because society is a great, big, mean, brute who carries a giant spikey club called Social Control, and it's not happy about the idea of its pawns growing brains, especially brains that want it to do something differently. In fact, for every little bit you give up, you're probably going to get clubbed on the head in some respect. It's really a lot more convenient to just eat your privilege up like good boys and girls, and not worry your pretty little heads about it. After all, one of those privileges is the privilege to believe "Racism is a thing of the past."

But non-white people don't have that luxury. You don't have to care about that, but if you do, you have a responsibility to do something about it. Start small. For example, I'm starting by spewing intellectual bullshit at a primarily white audience, most of whom stopped reading this long long ago, protected by the anonymity of a keyboard and screen. It's not much, it's certainly not enough, but it's a start.

You could start even smaller, by simply being aware that racism isn't being perpetuated by the fact that Puffy's hosting a benefit for Black 911 survivors, it's being perpetuated by the fact that N'Sync is *not*.

And now, having fulfilled my monthly quota of sixteen and a half pages of incessant rambling, please allow me to trip ungracefully from my soapbox, and disappear into the corner for another six weeks. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif

< /52 cents >

endangered cultures is as much a problem in our world, if not more, than endangered species. The world is becoming a mono-culture. thanks america. for which you hold most the blame.

*awaits flaming*

Originally posted by jackboot7:
endangered cultures is as much a problem in our world, if not more, than endangered species. The world is becoming a mono-culture. thanks america. for which you hold most the blame.

Huzzah for Globalization.

Originally posted by Never_Nohen:
Huzzah for Globalization.

americanization

Originally posted by Black jellie bean:

I think this is one of the things we don't agree on,
A: People of a different Race or religion are not better than any other, therefore why segregate yourself?Black, mexican, german whatever, being proud to be different is one thing, rasing money for Black people is another.*specifically in this example* when People from EVERY race Die pretty much equally or whatever, it is the Hight of bigotry
B:I'm not racist or a bigot
I hate everyone equally
C:What I mean is by "I don't understand this shit" is that well all have different roots, different lives, different problems, different skin colors, different taste,ect. I'm just wondering when people are going to understand the ways we're the same instead of the difference, it would make things alot easier.


regarding that fucking concert,
I still think it is bullshit,
the point is that PEOPLE died
not only Black people

A totally agree...and I really think it's bullshit how people here automatically throw insults at you when they don't agree... calling someone an "ignorant fuck" just because they see things differently that you do, isn't really mature.

i'm not a racist...but i do believe that many minorities are.

As I've said before, I'm Irish... I wouldn't show up to an interview in a kilt anymore than a black person would show up in traditional african garbs... we all have cultural differences... but we keep them for the most part, at home.

You don't see people of German decent walking around in liederhosens...you don't see Dutch people walking around in wooden shoes... why? Because there are times and places for that. This is not a black-white issue. This is an everyone issue.

But I'm not talking about how people dress. I'm talking about how in all of our strides for equality, we've made people even more separated. I mean, seriously... people are so bent on fucking political correctness that this conversation itself is offensive and taboo, even though the only intention is to have a discussion about something.

Some people should lighten up... I've never seen and Asian person bitching about their "opression" and saying that they're excluded from America because Fridays doesn't offer chopsticks. So...why should black people bitch about how the fucking "gap" is marketing to them to make them more "white"? that is pure bullshit.

I know that in some parts of the country, racism still exists... but not here, not where I live...and I find it offensive to my culture, that holidays and months and concerts are given in the name of minorities, just because their skin tone is darker than mine.

When I applied to NYU... they had a "minority orientation" in central park, 2 weeks after the "prospective student orientation"... why? are black students better? do they really need a special day just for them?

It's fucking skin color, get over it.

This isn't even about culture...its about skin color... It also pisses me off how when I filled out my college aplications, I had to check a race... and there was no box for my race. Sure, they had "African American" with 50 sub-boxes to check off exactly where in Africa your line comes from... and they had "Hispanic" from 30 different countries...

But all they had for me...was a little box that said WHITE Well, that is insulting to MY fucking culture. I'm Irish/Italian/French/Spanish...well, where was my fucking "European Descent" box?

That's not equality anymore.

I don't have a problem with culture, again, I don't care how you dress... I care how this world is making it harder to be white. If all minorites wanted was equality, why isn't there? Why is it that when a white person has a problem, it's always "Rich white bastards"

Why is it assumed that the only people who care about these issues are wealthy? I do not look down on anyone, black, white, asian...I don't care. I see people as people. It's that simple.

But that doesn't change the way I think. and I'm sure you've all read what I think.

Go ahead, call me an asshole...you just don't fucking get it...because you're too dense even to understand another persons outlook.

*jenn*

Originally posted by Comedy Doesn't Pay:
As long as you in the minority continue to bitch about 200 years of oppression and all that shit, as long as you insist on not letting the past go, you will forever be kept out of positions of high power in mainstream America.

Only when you guys truly, truly decide to fuck what happened in the past, and to dedicate yourselves to breaking down these biased doors will you truly be accepted for what you are.

The big problem in 2002 is that you in the minority races don't have jack shit when it comes to a real leader who can lead the way in pushing down these barriers for you. Most of you vote Democratic party, there is no leader whatsoever in that party right now. It's a bunch of fucking clowns vying for control. And you certainly don't have an MLK at this time.

So I would suggest and hope that you will one day say "fuck it" to all this shit that happened in the past and go out and do your own thing instead of constantly bitching about it and using it for excuses. All this reparation shit used to gain govt. money and what not. You are only ever going to go as far as you're willing to work for. And I know for a fact that you, Mayfuck, haven't reached this point yet, considering you're right now just a dropout who spends his time on the computer all day when he could be out making opportunity for himself.

i agree...thank you.

Originally posted by Black jellie bean:
in regards to me waving my culture/displying it
thats fine?
i don't go around saying i'm fucking white and proud
I could care less if I were African or somthingstill doesn't give me the right to segregate myself from the rest of humanity

does anyone understand/agree with what i'm trying to say here
god i wish i were a better writer

yes i agree... and i would probably get flamed less if i said it the way you do.

it wouldn't matter if I was african, or 100% spanish... i wouldn't segregate myself from the rest of society...and i would still count all americans (regardless of race) "my people"

Originally posted by Comedy Doesn't Pay:
No, it doesn't. Any time you implement a system where you give a job to a lesser qualified candidate, which does happen sometimes, you are automatically creating more problems than you're trying to solve. See my last post. If you constantly insist on having the rules fixed in your favor instead of taking the initiative yourself to create opportunity, then you will never reach the top.

I hate to break this to you, but the entire universe is built on the premise of "survival of the fittest, brightest, and strongest". No affirmative action program can fuck with science. So get over it.

*claps* exactly...fucking exactly.

Originally posted by FearFactory:
Allow me to add my 2 cents.

There is racism in America. It's kind of hard to ignore when you've got white guys running around waving confederate flags and talking about "lynchin' us some niggers". But, racism is not something that comes solely from white people. It's a problem that exists in the hearts and minds of all people of all cultures and unfortunately, will probably never completely go away.

I don't believe we need a Black History Month. If people don't think there's enough in our history books about non-whites, then they should petition to get more put in. What shouldn't happen is that out of a history book that's 600 pages, it's evenly divided up based upon race.

Affirmitive Action? I don't believe in it. It just allows people that could possibly not be as qualified to get into a job based on their race.

BET? I wish they would call it by a different name. Calling it BLACK (hey, what happened to AFRICAN AMERICAN?) Entertainment Television just opens the door for more racism. They should just change the name to WB http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/wink.gif

Speaking of "African American", I don't like the term. You can say I'm not PC, but if I'm not gonna call a white guy European American, you can be sure I'm not gonna call a black guy African American. To French people, we are Americans... but what are their own people to themselves? Do they call themselves French, or are they like us when we use the terms "black" and "white"?

I'm not saying that we should forget what's happened in the past (you know that quote, "those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it"), but the issue shouldn't be brought up as an excuse to get things in someone's favor.

Anyway... we're all a part of a race that's more important than "white", "black", "brown" or "green"... and as cheesy as it sounds... it's called the human race.

again, i agree...

and what Julio said about how minorites should have some reparations due to 200 years of injustice.

my boyfriend is JEWISH...try over 2000 years of opression, and I don't see him complaining, or asking for a Jewish History Month...or money from the governement...or any special treatment.

Nor do I see any Jews complaining like that. Blacks had it bad, they were forced into slave labor and taken away from their families and beaten...

Jews had all that, along with the duty of throwing the bodies of their loved ones into ovens... and smelling their corpses... and this was 50 years ago, not 200...

give it a break...if anyone has the right to feel slighted by modern society, it's the Jews... and they, for the most part...ask for nothing.



[This message has been edited by melancholia (edited 02-04-2002).]

Originally posted by Comedy Doesn't Pay:
No, it doesn't. Any time you implement a system where you give a job to a lesser qualified candidate, which does happen sometimes, you are automatically creating more problems than you're trying to solve. See my last post. If you constantly insist on having the rules fixed in your favor instead of taking the initiative yourself to create opportunity, then you will never reach the top.

I hate to break this to you, but the entire universe is built on the premise of "survival of the fittest, brightest, and strongest". No affirmative action program can fuck with science. So get over it.

did you read what i said? it's not tilting things in one race's favor. it's not hiring less qualified candidates. there are stigma for just being a minority when it comes to evaluation.

listen, a book you might want to read is "why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria?"

i had to read it before i came to college, and i almost burned the damn thing, because it pissed me off so much when i started it. i pretty much thought the same way a lot of the people i'm currently arguing against thought.

but if you're level-headed enough to finish it, you'll find that there's a lot of important points. i wish i had it with me, so i could toss a few quotes your way.