Arcade Fire’s Win Butler Faces Accusations of Sexual Misconduct

[Joey Goldberg]

i'm as sick of hearing about Feebee Britchers every other second of the day as the next guy, but provided it's not some Lostprophets level depravity I don't really feel like anyone outside of the immediate parties involved are really qualified @ all to make any serious statements on the matter, & tbh a lot of it is very blatantly "TMI" for the general public

like wtf are we doing with Marilyn Manson Johnny Depp phone screen shots out here, lol

[Joey Goldberg]

Anyway, how 'bout that new Muse album huh?

[topleybird]

Originally Posted by TheAlter

You very deceitfully tried to make it sound like it's a "men unite" kinda thing. Bullshit. it's about super-rich celebrities leading dissolute lives, fame, drugs, hordes of fans

I have no idea what you're saying here, unless it's "this sort of behavior just comes with the territory for the mega-rich," which does not exactly satisfy me.

Originally Posted by TheAlter

none of them has gone to trial

I would see Depp v Heard for why rape accusations are rare (something like 35% of rapes are actually reported) and going to trial is even rarer; women are heavily disincentivized to speak out and are routinely humiliated/victim blamed at trial. So, this is not doing much for me, either.

Originally Posted by TheAlter

FBI investigations dismissed.

So, that's one accuser of Ryan whose accusation is muddier than it seemed, and six accusers who you're leaving out of this entirely. There's also the fact that he issued an apology for his behavior (albeit one so broad it's unclear what he's admitting to). So... do you have any other non-"men unite" reasons you want to try out?

[topleybird]

Probably not gonna listen to the new Muse tbh

[TheAlter]

You seem to have a problem with the notion of presumption of innocence, which makes it kinda hard playing by the same rules here.

I more or less agree with Mista Golderberg over there when he says

I don't really feel like anyone outside of the immediate parties involved are really qualified @ all to make any serious statements on the matter, & tbh a lot of it is very blatantly "TMI" for the general public

Only problem is people get cancelled and their career flushed down the toilet and it sucks.

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by Joey Goldberg

Anyway, how 'bout that new Muse album huh?

Saw them live and the truly unforgettable moment was Biffy Clyro opening for them. They fucking slayed.

New album, eh, you go first

[Joey Goldberg]

i did go first

it's certainly a modern-day Muse album!

[topleybird]

Originally Posted by TheAlter

You seem to have a problem with the notion of presumption of innocence, which makes it kinda hard playing by the same rules here.

That's not really your deal, though. If someone accused me of murdering someone, I hope your position would be "that doesn't sound like my buddy Topleybird, but I'll see how this goes." If six people accused me of murdering someone, I hope your position would be "hmm, this doesn't look good for ol' Tops." Instead your position is "those six people are definitely lying." The fact that we're talking about sexual misconduct/rape accusations toward these celebrities, and that women are routinely dismissed by police, college school boards, the public, etc. when they come forward, makes this even shittier on your part.

I mean, I am not on a jury in the trial of Ryan Adams. I don't have to presume he's innocent. I can take the fact that seven women accused him of something, and the fact that he issued a blanket apology, and draw what seems like a pretty fuckin' clear conclusion. If you're relying entirely on the court of law: Why didn't he sue his accusers for slander and clear all this up? Why didn't he sue the NYT for libel, like he initially said he would? His career is ruined. Why isn't he doing anything about it?

[redbreegull]

@thealter Dude you’re just kind of stupid.

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by topleybird

I don't have to presume he's innocent. I can take the fact that seven women accused him of something, and the fact that he issued a blanket apology, and draw what seems like a pretty fuckin' clear conclusion.

Fine, just looked again at the NYT article and idk how can that be considered enough, it's an absolute charade. No real sexual misconduct/rape accusations are made, there is a lot of "emotionally abusive" and major contradictions.

Then there's this absolute gem that i leave here for the future generations to behold

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by Joey Goldberg

i did go first

it's certainly a modern-day Muse album!

Listened to the title track. it fucking sucks mate! Had to put on The Beautiful People for compensation.

It was a fucking ambush.

[topleybird]

Originally Posted by TheAlter

Fine, just looked again at the NYT article and idk how can that be considered enough, it's an absolute charade. No real sexual misconduct/rape accusations are made, there is a lot of "emotionally abusive" and major contradictions.

Oh sweet, you should let Adams' lawyers know they can go ahead with suing these women and the Times! They're going to be overjoyed that you had a look as a completely ignorant, non-involved party and decided this was all bullshit. Why the accused man looked at these women's stories of how he treated them and decided they were telling the truth is beyond me.

You seem to think you're doing the just thing by presuming your musical heroes are innocent, but by doing that you're presuming guilt on the part of the many, many women these situations involve. All of them. Every woman. Every time. And that's what I called you out for.

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by topleybird

You seem to think you're doing the just thing by presuming your musical heroes are innocent, but by doing that you're presuming guilt on the part of the many, many women these situations involve. All of them. Every woman. Every time. And that's what I called you out for.

With all due respect, Tops, me thinks you got a bit carried away with all this knight in shining armor kinda thing.

By presuming someone innocent you're automatically presuming guilt on someone else? What? That's the kind of moral blackmail dogmas of faith are made of. Not on my watch, Top, not on my watch!

I'd like to salute this pleasant and constructive debate with a favorite of us all. Peace

[soniclovenoize]

Originally Posted by TheAlter

Fine, just looked again at the NYT article and idk how can that be considered enough, it's an absolute charade. No real sexual misconduct/rape accusations are made, there is a lot of "emotionally abusive" and major contradictions.

Then there's this absolute gem that i leave here for the future generations to behold

Are you saying emotional abuse isn't a thing?

[topleybird]

Originally Posted by TheAlter

By presuming someone innocent you're automatically presuming guilt on someone else? What? That's the kind of moral blackmail dogmas of faith are made of. Not on my watch, Top, not on my watch!

Uh huh. So, in your opinion, every woman who's made an accusation against those three people are... what? What would your word be for those accusations? If they're not lying, then they're... what?

Because from my end, it seems clear you think they're all lying, but you're coming right up to the precipice of saying that, leaving no room for misunderstanding your intent, but you won't actually say the word because you know what an asshole that makes you, and so you can leave that wiggle room where you can be like, as above, "Oh what? I never said that! Gosh, what a thing to think!" So, correct me. Explain what's happening in these situations.

[Joey Goldberg]

TheTruth about TheAltar: he is Ryna Adams

[Joey Goldberg]

or John Depp?

I'm Joey Goldberg.

[TheAlter]

Lol joel...lol..rofl

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by soniclovenoize

Are you saying emotional abuse isn't a thing?

I am saying that is not emotional abuse.

[yo soy el mejor]

Originally Posted by TheAlter

Fine, just looked again at the NYT article and idk how can that be considered enough, it's an absolute charade. No real sexual misconduct/rape accusations are made, there is a lot of "emotionally abusive" and major contradictions.

Then there's this absolute gem that i leave here for the future generations to behold

You're impotent in so many ways--you can't even be offensive well.

(I think this little scamp is just trying to get your goats, y'all)

[yo soy el mejor]

" The accounts have been corroborated by family members or friends who were present at the time, as well as by correspondence from Adams reviewed by The New York Times." But some douchebag on on a Smashing Pumpkins forum is dubious since Adams wears glasses and a moptop--not the uniform of an emotional abuser. Sources say it's likely because the douchebag has done the same or at least fantasizes about lording power over women.

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by topleybird

Uh huh. So, in your opinion, every woman who's made an accusation against those three people are... what? What would your word be for those accusations? If they're not lying, then they're... what?

Because from my end, it seems clear you think they're all lying, but you're coming right up to the precipice of saying that, leaving no room for misunderstanding your intent, but you won't actually say the word because you know what an asshole that makes you, and so you can leave that wiggle room where you can be like, as above, "Oh what? I never said that! Gosh, what a thing to think!" So, correct me. Explain what's happening in these situations.

As i've already said, you're out here whiteknighting in shining armor like there's no tomorrow, foaming at the mouth, the intrepid bastion of justice...you get the picture.

You choose to deliberately ignore the context in which such unsubstantiated claims have been made, you choose to ignore the main source of this now expired gossip, a NYT that is all about "they said" "she said" "these women say" "he denies" and with no real factual reporting.

You've never been in backstage at a concert that's one thing i can safely say. The whole idea of little defenseless women lured into a trap set behind the scenes by the ryan adams or the Johnny Depps is is absolutely ludicrous. And complete made up unless proven otherwise [mic drop]

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by yo soy el mejor

" The accounts have been corroborated by family members or friends who were present at the time, as well as by correspondence from Adams reviewed by The New York Times." But some douchebag on on a Smashing Pumpkins forum is dubious since Adams wears glasses and a moptop--not the uniform of an emotional abuser. Sources say it's likely because the douchebag has done the same or at least fantasizes about lording power over women.

Did you actually read it or you just stopped at the free preview?

Plase write down the part where they actually corroborate the accounts.

Tl;dr FBI case closed.

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by yo soy el mejor

You're impotent in so many ways--you can't even be offensive well.

(I think this little scamp is just trying to get your goats, y'all)

lmao lamest virtue signalling ever. C'mon you can do better, i'm sure

[topleybird]

Originally Posted by TheAlter

As i've already said, you're out here whiteknighting in shining armor like there's no tomorrow, foaming at the mouth, the intrepid bastion of justice...you get the picture.

Doesn't seem like you're able to answer the question? Am I getting this right? Like, you can't clearly state your opinion of all the women in the various examples we're talking about, correct? (You remember we're talking about more than Ryan Adams, right? Not sure why you keep going back to one NYT story about him here.) We've established that because I say I believe the accusers, it can only be because I hope one of them sees my messages and wants to fuck me, you caught me, but your own stance is still weirdly...unstated? Precisely like I said it was and would remain?

You've never been in backstage at a concert that's one thing i can safely say.

See, this is a great example of you walking up to the precipice of "these women are all whores/fame-seekers who have regrets now" without outright saying it. You can see that? That this is exactly what I'm talking about with you?

[yo soy el mejor]

he's a pudgy-faced midwesterner. they're not as smart or nice as they perceive themselves. they're pretty boring, though.

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by topleybird

See, this is a great example of you walking up to the precipice of "these women are all whores/fame-seekers who have regrets now" without outright saying it. You can see that? That this is exactly what I'm talking about with you?

Yeah because women in that context must necessarily be either victims or whores, right? Nice dichotomy there Tops, congrats. Neopuritans, will you ever learn…

[topleybird]

Originally Posted by TheAlter

Yeah because women in that context must necessarily be either victims or whores, right? Nice dichotomy there Tops, congrats. Neopuritans, will you ever learn…

Do you think this constant deflection is working on anyone? I spell out what you've been all but saying outright and you say "Oh! So you're saying they're victims or whores, how dare you"? Is this fooling anybody? Again: This is exactly, exactly what I'm talking about with you.

So they're not victims or whores? That's not what you've been strongly, clearly suggesting? Again, what are they, in your opinion? Are we gonna settle this just by process of elimination?

[yo soy el mejor]

he's says so much, yet so little.

;_;

[TuralyonW3]

Wow TheAlter is like some kind of AI-generated red-pilled incel