Where's the album?

[Joey Goldberg]

but also, alien bill pulled off a couple bangers on Zeitgeist and if you want to try & argue that w/ me you can go ahead & "pause" immediately

[ninsp]

Originally Posted by Joey Goldberg

but also, alien bill pulled off a couple bangers on Zeitgeist and if you want to try & argue that w/ me you can go ahead & "pause" immediately

Tarantula was good for 20 seconds. Tom Tom is good, so is Tiberius and maybe One and All. Oceania is fine

[Squish Squash]

Originally Posted by Joey Goldberg

but also, alien bill pulled off a couple bangers on Zeitgeist and if you want to try & argue that w/ me you can go ahead & "pause" immediately

Tbh I probably would be more forgiving about post 2000 SP if Billy didn’t write my favorite music ever (well tied with 70s Black Sabbath for favorite music) in the 90s. I should give Zeitgeist a relisten perhaps.

[enthusaroo]

Zeitgeigst, the album, had some good songs on it.. production overall is not great tho

Bleeding the Orchid
Doomsday Clock.. live version though album version isn't too too bad
For God and Country.. live version not the album version which sounds like utter shit

Tarantula is a fun listen

I personally liked Bring the Light even most people seem to hate that song.. it could have been done better especially production-wise

and finally Gossamer.. which should have been on the album.. the song itself is a masterpiece.. the only good long form SP song written since the 90s.

[TheSultanOfCyr]

I stand by the notion that the performance of Gossamer on the If All Goes Wrong DVD is one of the best things the Pumpkins ever did. I’ve listened to it so much that I can recall basically every improvised melody, every freaky psych’d out sound, Jimmy’s entire drum solo, and the structure of the whole thing - a largely improvised piece of music.

I really, really like it.

[brothahi4L]

Stop trolling cyr, thx

[slunken]

this "zeitgeist production sucks" is just like the tired machina 2 discourse. it needs to stop. it's tired, it's done, nobody cares. if you can't enjoy a good album because you (as a production master) deems that the production "sucks" well then good luck in your future endeavors

[slunken]

it makes no sense to me

like if i listened to korn my entire life wouldn't it be easy to listen to a zz top record and go "oh man this production stinks"?

like do you think if the production changes that the songs will change? will the live performances be altered? i truly do not know what gives

[slunken]

dumb fans - "mcis is too muddy" "machina is too esoteric" "zeitgeist is too bright" "oceania is a return to form" "monuments is horrible"

[slunken]

correct fans - "cyr fucking sucks" lmao

[VoxUpDoc]

Originally Posted by slunken

this "zeitgeist production sucks" is just like the tired machina 2 discourse. it needs to stop. it's tired, it's done, nobody cares. if you can't enjoy a good album because you (as a production master) deems that the production "sucks" well then good luck in your future endeavors

Billy’s voice is mixed like his tongue is tickling your ear drum and the rest of the band are playing through your smartphone speakers in another room.

His vocal delivery is also an issue that production cannot fix.

[Forgotten Child]

Originally Posted by slunken

it makes no sense to me

like if i listened to korn my entire life wouldn't it be easy to listen to a zz top record and go "oh man this production stinks"?

like do you think if the production changes that the songs will change? will the live performances be altered? i truly do not know what gives

If a fan made, amateur remastered YouTube mix can make it sound better imagine what a professional could do with it

[TheSultanOfCyr]

Originally Posted by brothahi4L

Stop trolling cyr, thx

Refer to me by my proper, full title, and we will consider this motion - brother.

[TheSultanOfCyr]

Originally Posted by VoxUpDoc

His vocal delivery is also an issue that production cannot fix.

It’s the fact that, barring a couple bits of United States, none of the heavier cuts on the album feature any vocals that feel particularly impassioned, belted, or even strained, which is kinda the bread and butter of that metallic sound Zeitgeist has alongside mega muscly distorted guitars and drums.

I’d wager that there’s more grit in the vocals of friggin Marchin’ On than on 90% of the band’s studio output since.

The only proper yell on there is that bit in United States where he’s like “do you wanna watch me DIE?”

And the thing is that we know he could do it, because even then he was doing it. The song FOL, whatever you think about it, shows him channeling that snarl in the post-choruses. Especially in the second post-chorus where he sounds like he’s properly going for it.

Side note - 0:35 to 1:05, and 1:45 to 2:20, of FOL - is awesome. I will die on that hill.

[VoxUpDoc]

Originally Posted by TheSultanOfCyr

It’s the fact that, barring a couple bits of United States, none of the heavier cuts on the album feature any vocals that feel particularly impassioned, belted, or even strained, which is kinda the bread and butter of that metallic sound Zeitgeist has alongside mega muscly distorted guitars.

Yeah the heavier tracks sound like the world is ending and then Bill’s vocals come in like he’s doing thirty-three on acapella, but sung like a c**t.

[slunken]

i really don't think it's that bad

histrionics aside

[slunken]

Originally Posted by VoxUpDoc

Billy’s voice is mixed like his tongue is tickling your ear drum and the rest of the band are playing through your smartphone speakers in another room.

His vocal delivery is also an issue that production cannot fix.

so like the key to making it a perfect album is just lowering bill's vox a db or 2?

that's it?

[slunken]

i can't imagine what other records you guys hate because you think you could have mastered or produced it better oh my god

[slunken]

but i'd probably spent money one betting that it's only this one you turds have a strong opinion on

[slunken]

like nobody is going "the drums on nevermind sound exactly like the gap band"

[slunken]

(they do)

[brothahi4L]

This prduction shit is completely overrated. Zeitgeist songs are mostly just bad songs....another production wouldnt save them.

Look towers of rabble isnt even produced and gives me goose bumps...cool lyrics, nice melodies, bills old voice, easy simple chords...

True that bill sings like thin thinner zeitgeist.... Jesus , on orchid he used like 7 bill vox tracks, but on heavier trax he sounds like a chipmunk.

Zeitgeist was and is still a let down. People were curious around the globe and were interested, but after the album dropped most fans and long time fans were heavily disappointed and even confused by 5 different versions..
The quality of those sings just sucked.

Then people started to cry out for james, who oughta safe the sound. Now as james is back they realized that it is getting worse with bills synth pop songs that have no depth.

I highly doubt that the new album will be any different especially after hearing bollos recent life performance where he increased his vibrato much more.

[Spaceboy88]

A good song is a good song no matter what. It doesn’t matter if the production is top-notch or if it’s recorded on a four-track cassette recorder in a bedroom.

Most of you fell in love with SP listening to the songs over FM radio or TV broadcast, so stop blaming the mixing and production for the reason you think certain albums suck. The reason those albums suck is because the songs aren’t that good, and no amount of production magic can fix that.

[Forgotten Child]

Originally Posted by Spaceboy88

A good song is a good song no matter what. It doesn’t matter if the production is top-notch or if it’s recorded on a four-track cassette recorder in a bedroom.

Most of you fell in love with SP listening to the songs over FM radio or TV broadcast, so stop blaming the mixing and production for the reason you think certain albums suck. The reason those albums suck is because the songs aren’t that good, and no amount of production magic can fix that.

That's not actually true tho. there are countless cases of songs released a few times and considered average or bad until an artist changes the structure/production of that same song and makes it a hit. There are also cases of artists who completely ruin a song that was considered a masterpiece.

Besides, we can't complain that Billy no longer works with a renowned producer and while saying production doesn't make much difference. It can at least make things sound pleasant.

[Forgotten Child]

It's gonna overwhelm the holes of your souls

[Squish Squash]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

It's gonna overwhelm the holes of your souls

Has she ever said anything that isn't disgustingly sycophantic about Billy though? I'd love for Bill to finally put out some great music again, but I don't expect it.

[Spaceboy88]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

That's not actually true tho. there are countless cases of songs released a few times and considered average or bad until an artist changes the structure/production of that same song and makes it a hit. There are also cases of artists who completely ruin a song that was considered a masterpiece.

Countless? Name just one great song that was released, considered a bad song, and then become a masterpiece after the artist changed the production?

I’m not disagreeing with you on demos that have been worked out to become masterpieces, but these songs that everyone hates on post-2000’s SP are hated because the songs just aren’t that good, and unless they fundamentally re-write them and re-release them as new songs, no amount of tweaking Billy’s vocal mix, preventing clipping, adjusting the mix of Jimmy’s drums is going to fix that.

[Spaceboy88]

Originally Posted by Squish Squash

Has she ever said anything that isn't disgustingly sycophantic about Billy though? I'd love for Bill to finally put out some great music again, but I don't expect it.

Everyone that wants to stay on the payroll has to lie to their boss and boost their ego. She’s not different than a middle-manager hoping to climb the corporate ladder.

[Forgotten Child]

Originally Posted by Spaceboy88

Countless? Name just one great song that was released, considered a bad song, and then become a masterpiece after the artist changed the production?

I’m not disagreeing with you on demos that have been worked out to become masterpieces, but these songs that everyone hates on post-2000’s SP are hated because the songs just aren’t that good, and unless they fundamentally re-write them and re-release them as new songs, no amount of tweaking Billy’s vocal mix, preventing clipping, adjusting the mix of Jimmy’s drums is going to fix that.

Off the top of my head

[Forgotten Child]

Plus, I don't think the album would become a masterpiece, but listen to this live version of Doomsday Clock. It has everything that the album version lacks. This one is raw, it has power, dynamics and depth, it's heavy as fuck. The studio version is polished, everything is loud and still sounds flat.