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Old 08-18-2022, 04:00 AM   #31
teh b0lly!!1
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Art isn't art anymore when everybody's doing it

 
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Old 08-18-2022, 04:04 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Disco King View Post
Wait, are we discussing whether current music business models are lucrative for artists, whether interesting stuff is still happening in rock music, or whether rock music can still be subversive? I have no idea what question we're even debating here.
Good post.

I think we can agree, tho, that all three are on a decline either way

 
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Old 08-18-2022, 01:47 PM   #33
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For question #1:

Yeah, it's more difficult to make a living as a musician than ever. For the vast majority of people, it will be a hobby they spend money on rather than anything they make an income on. Touring is like taking a vacation where you get to play music and offset some of your gas costs. You will continue to have a day job. Even the the biggest pop stars who do make millions off of their music sell fewer records than they did in the past. The highest selling records sell a fraction of what the highest selling records of old did. Because we have the internet now and instead of all going out and buying the same album, purchases are dispersed across a more diverse range of records every year.

As for question #2, there have never been more people doing more different things on rock music than there are now. There has never been more musical diversity than there is now. Of course interesting shit is still happening.

As for question #3, rock music isn't subversive anymore because literally nothing is subversive anymore. The only way you can be edgy these days is by doing brainless shock rock. And shock rock isn't despised anymore because it offends our delicate sensibilities. Now it's despised because it's unimaginative and boring. Anybody can do it.

We've seen people bite the heads off of birds, say blasphemous/sacrilegious/politically incorrect things, take shits on stage, burn down churches, everything. It's not just music. We've made the edgiest torture porn films we can imagine, the crudest comedy that can be fathomed, the harshest satire of every politician or public figure, we've literally pushed past every boundary of "offending" people. Offending people isn't new or challenging anymore, and we already live everyday understanding that things that offend us are part of society and are allowed to exist and we can encounter them whenever we feel like. At least in Western (particularly North American) society. Maybe you can still be a "subversive" rock band in Iran or Uganda. But here, we've literally seen it all.

 
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Old 08-18-2022, 01:49 PM   #34
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We've come a long way from George H. W. Bush being scared that Bart Simpson would encourage youth delinquency by uttering "don't have a cow, man" to teachers and other authority figures.

Now, cartoons are more worried about the example the president sets than the other way around.

 
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Old 08-18-2022, 07:07 PM   #35
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now your rockstars get home from their job at Best Buy and plug into a daw because their studio apartment has a noise curfew of 9pm
no they have continual funding from mom and dad (dad, to be honest) to "pursue their dream"

 
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Old 08-18-2022, 07:08 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
Art isn't art anymore when everybody's doing it
this

 
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Old 08-18-2022, 07:14 PM   #37
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all during the past two years i heard nothing but crybaby bands going "oh no we have no means of support" and "oh no please buy this practice tape otherwise we can't survive" and "if we cannot tour we cannot survive"

and i've literally not seen a single one of these acts disintegrate or get a job or anything of the sort.

fuck bands, fuck artists, fuck musicians

you're going to tell me that the toadies wrote one hit song in the mid-90s and they're still living high off of that one hit?

you're going to tell me that you're an obscure avant-garde electronic musician and you made one tape in an edition of 100 and you're still surviving?

enough is enough. NO MORE BANDS. NO MORE MUSIC.

 
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Old 08-18-2022, 07:14 PM   #38
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this
If you think the defining trait of art is elitism and exclusivity, then sure.

 
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Old 08-18-2022, 07:31 PM   #39
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jump on the clickbait but don't address the conversation, sure

 
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Old 08-18-2022, 07:33 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Disco King View Post
If you think the defining trait of art is elitism and exclusivity, then sure.
also are you fucking with me about definitions of words or are you 100% serious?

 
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Old 08-18-2022, 07:34 PM   #41
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Because you could split an entire thunderbolt in the middle of your sentence and those would be two different conversations

 
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Old 08-18-2022, 08:53 PM   #42
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What part of this conversation would you like to draw my attention to?

 
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Old 08-18-2022, 09:55 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by slunken View Post
all during the past two years i heard nothing but crybaby bands going "oh no we have no means of support" and "oh no please buy this practice tape otherwise we can't survive" and "if we cannot tour we cannot survive"

and i've literally not seen a single one of these acts disintegrate or get a job or anything of the sort.

fuck bands, fuck artists, fuck musicians

you're going to tell me that the toadies wrote one hit song in the mid-90s and they're still living high off of that one hit?

you're going to tell me that you're an obscure avant-garde electronic musician and you made one tape in an edition of 100 and you're still surviving?

enough is enough. NO MORE BANDS. NO MORE MUSIC.
I’ve actually seen the Toadies a couple times and yes, they are living large

 
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Old 08-19-2022, 05:40 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Disco King View Post
What part of this conversation would you like to draw my attention to?
it doesn't matter. i was just talking shit, but I think elitism and exclusivity often go hand in hand with "art". I say OFTEN because there are very few rags to riches stories to be had anymore, which was always the fantasy about making music (to me?)

it seems like more and more often these days if you look up a musician/artist on wikipedia they have very notable parents which makes it very clear that the lifestyle was bankrolled

it sounds like i'm being a boomer whining about "privilege" but I assure it's a little more than that

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I’ve actually seen the Toadies a couple times and yes, they are living large
I mean yea "living large" was hyperbolic but are they still cashing checks from rubberneck? who else on earth could take 2 years off work?

 
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Old 08-19-2022, 05:45 PM   #45
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I'm just asking questions.

like is that dream still true? like you could write one hit song and basically live off of it for the rest of your life if you had to?

 
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Old 08-19-2022, 05:47 PM   #46
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like, i've only seen one band i follow on social media break up/crumble due to covid stuff and they were planning on breaking up anyway. they just canceled a euro tour and broke up early. so like, how are all these bands still in existence?

 
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Old 08-19-2022, 05:48 PM   #47
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someone make this make sense to me

 
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Old 08-19-2022, 06:31 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slunken View Post
it doesn't matter. i was just talking shit, but I think elitism and exclusivity often go hand in hand with "art". I say OFTEN because there are very few rags to riches stories to be had anymore, which was always the fantasy about making music (to me?)

it seems like more and more often these days if you look up a musician/artist on wikipedia they have very notable parents which makes it very clear that the lifestyle was bankrolled

it sounds like i'm being a boomer whining about "privilege" but I assure it's a little more than that



I mean yea "living large" was hyperbolic but are they still cashing checks from rubberneck? who else on earth could take 2 years off work?
They host a sold out local music festival in Possum Kingdom. I think if you’re big enough, sure. Unlike, say, Dishwalla. I think it depends on how big you were. DFW still worships them.

 
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Old 08-19-2022, 06:34 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by slunken View Post
like is that dream still true? like you could write one hit song and basically live off of it for the rest of your life if you had to?
Question from genuine ignorance: Was that ever possible? I saw About a Boy as we all did and I wondered if Hugh Grant's lifestyle — we all know this, of course, but his character lived off the royalties of one hit song his father wrote — was at all realistic. Like who has accomplished this?

 
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Old 08-19-2022, 07:11 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by ninsp View Post
They host a sold out local music festival in Possum Kingdom. I think if you’re big enough, sure. Unlike, say, Dishwalla. I think it depends on how big you were. DFW still worships them.
I remember not hearing that Dishwalla song at all on my local rock station but when driving into the nearest city it was a huge hit. Remember how sick it was to be driving and actually hear different songs on the radio based upon where you were?

That was Dishwalla for me. I love that song because of that.

 
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Old 08-19-2022, 07:13 PM   #51
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just to be clear during this time i was in the passenger seat with my dad lol

 
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Old 08-19-2022, 07:24 PM   #52
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no they have continual funding from mom and dad (dad, to be honest) to "pursue their dream"
I don't consider all these dweeby indie kids or shit like Thee Oh Sees to have any proper rockstars

 
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Old 08-19-2022, 07:37 PM   #53
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if there's no outside $$$ coming in, only rich kids can participate

besides I'd rather people get exorbitant salaries for making music than designing Floppy Bird or tweeter or whatever

 
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Old 08-19-2022, 08:23 PM   #54
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this is now a buckcherry appreciation thread


 
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Old 08-19-2022, 08:30 PM   #55
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Old 08-19-2022, 08:37 PM   #56
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Old 08-19-2022, 08:41 PM   #57
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this is extremely gay lol

 
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Old 08-19-2022, 08:46 PM   #58
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listening to a man on a stage tell you about how hard he is and how much he wants to fuck is extremely gay and not in the slur way

 
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Old 08-20-2022, 03:01 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by topleybird View Post
Question from genuine ignorance: Was that ever possible? I saw About a Boy as we all did and I wondered if Hugh Grant's lifestyle — we all know this, of course, but his character lived off the royalties of one hit song his father wrote — was at all realistic. Like who has accomplished this?
In the pre-internet days where the whole world basically tuned into a handful of extremely popular artists, oh yeah you better believe it. Especially in America.

There's a story about Don Mclean and American Pie, he was often asked what it was all about and allegedly his reply was "it means I don't have to work ever again" (lol)

Now you can totally effin forget about that dream because it's never going to happen. Becoming an influencer\videoblogger is probably a much safer bet to get rich nowadays.

 
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Old 08-20-2022, 03:09 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by slunken View Post
it doesn't matter. i was just talking shit, but I think elitism and exclusivity often go hand in hand with "art". I say OFTEN because there are very few rags to riches stories to be had anymore, which was always the fantasy about making music (to me?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elphenor View Post
if there's no outside $$$ coming in, only rich kids can participate
I think growing up in the 80s we all grew up with a firm blend of love for the art itself and the monetization\validation that follows.

Where does love for the art end and the coveting of real life perks begin?

My solution to the modern pickle is to completely forget about money, validation, success or any of that external irrelevant shit at all, and just make music only for me, because I love and need to do it

That is my rebellion

Who gives a shit if it's gonna be a bandcamp with 56 views on it. Fuck all of you I don't need your money and your fad

 
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