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06-04-2020, 01:49 PM | #1 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,612
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"Ahead of its Time"
WPC has stated that Adore, Machina, thefutureembrace, and Zeitgeist were ahead of their time. He claims that's the main reason the albums did not sell particularly well. In other words, the fans were not ready for his message or take on music until much later; implying that he is somehow pulling people along to some greater place where he is a full time resident. Another reason could be that the albums are not as relatable as earlier works.
I don't know how he rationalize(s) TbK, Oceania, and Monuments. Perhaps not enough time has passed to clearly see how prescient they are. What's funny to me is the only album I can sort of see that applying to is Adore. Adore still sounds like musty, stale bread to me and is overly depressing. It was my third favorite album back when it was released. But even today I can appreciate the electronic influences on songs like Appels + Oranjes and Pug. Not sure if this is so much related to being ahead of the times or the fact that Jimmy wasn't around. But the other albums....? Especially Zeitgeist. Ironic to claim that an album that literally means "the spirit of the times" represents an enduring theme in society. And Cotillions? What can he possibly say about strumming chords and lyrics that are so intellectually dense and disconnected that will be ahead of its time in 2030? |
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06-04-2020, 02:09 PM | #2 |
Braindead
Location: TX
Posts: 16,289
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everything Billy ever played could be said to be "behind the times" and as such will get less popular as time goes on
who care though |
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06-04-2020, 04:25 PM | #3 |
Socialphobic
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You just don't get it
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06-04-2020, 04:26 PM | #4 |
Socialphobic
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All of you
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06-04-2020, 04:26 PM | #5 |
Socialphobic
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You. Just. Don't. Get. It.
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06-04-2020, 04:27 PM | #6 |
Socialphobic
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06-04-2020, 04:27 PM | #7 |
Socialphobic
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06-04-2020, 04:28 PM | #8 |
Socialphobic
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06-04-2020, 04:29 PM | #9 |
Socialphobic
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06-04-2020, 04:31 PM | #10 |
Socialphobic
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06-04-2020, 04:31 PM | #11 |
Socialphobic
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06-04-2020, 04:32 PM | #12 |
Socialphobic
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06-04-2020, 04:34 PM | #13 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Gold Lace Sensor
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His logic presupposes that all his work is inherently high quality and that the audience is too stupid to "get it". Maybe the reason his post-MCIS work has failed to connect with an audience as big as the first three albums is that they think it's just not as good?
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06-04-2020, 04:36 PM | #14 |
Socialphobic
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06-04-2020, 04:40 PM | #15 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
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06-04-2020, 05:25 PM | #16 |
Socialphobic
Location: montreal
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the electronic elements of Adore sound very dated to me today. they sounded very dated very quickly. There was nothing 'out of time' about it then either. Billy just never had an ear for electronic music at all.
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06-04-2020, 05:44 PM | #17 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
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tear sounds as fresh as your dad's gooch to me
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06-04-2020, 06:40 PM | #18 |
Demi-God
Posts: 453
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I don't being ahead of its time has ever really been their thing. Unique for sure, special for sure, but not really ahead of their time. To a certain extent it is true to say that the albums are easier to appreciate over time as you gradually get the patience to listen them a few times and better understand what they're trying to do. At the same time, while there's no doubt SP made some of greatest music ever and made an unbelievable amount of it, i don't think Billy's attempts to push the envelope after MCIS ever really have that "oh, i didn't get this at the time, but not now that the culture has caught up i understand" type of thing. Adore and Machina are cool but electronic music really hasn't taken any cues or inspiration from SP i don't think. At the end of the day SP is an awesome rock band who can make solid attempts at other genres
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06-04-2020, 08:35 PM | #19 |
Socialphobic
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06-04-2020, 09:17 PM | #20 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,851
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Quote:
It wasn't "The Shape of Electronic to Come." It was "The Shape of SP to come." I don't think they thought that people who had been playing house or drum-and-bass music for years would listen to this one acoustic-goth album with electronic flourishes from a rock band and go, "damn, they changed the game!" |
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06-04-2020, 10:25 PM | #21 |
Minion of Satan
Location: andy dick NAKED
Posts: 8,168
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Adore being classed as an "electronic album" is a pretty big fallacy in itself. it's maybe a quarter electronic. the rest is essentially an extension of Mellon Collie disc 2
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06-04-2020, 10:28 PM | #22 |
Minion of Satan
Location: andy dick NAKED
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Billy's forte was guitars & I gotta at least give him credit for pushing the envelope a bit on that front. sure SD was heavily influenced by MBV but it's not just some straight rip of that sound, he did his own thing with it & created a pretty damn distinctive sound for that whole record. it's easy to call bullshit on stuff he says now but the claim that the recording of Gish heavily influenced what Vig did on Nevermind rings pretty true to me as well
MCIS I'd say was a pretty impressive push at the sheer scope of what a band could do. the band going more electronic seemed a little arbitrary but when they were actually doing it, they pulled it off pretty well considering Bill has seemingly little to no interest in that kind of music beyond later-period Pink Floyd & bands who used synths in the 80s post-punk scene |
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06-05-2020, 12:48 AM | #23 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,612
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Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest that Adore was an electronic album. I wanted to give the 'ol man some credit for incorporating electronic elements in a bold way for yes, Pumpkins music, not electronic music. In that regard, I thought it was ahead of its time because I still haven't heard anything quite like it. Ahead of its time...maybe.
I can't say that about any other album. As great as SD was and is, it wasn't ahead of its time. It was a new take on classic rock. |
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06-05-2020, 12:52 AM | #24 |
Minion of Satan
Location: andy dick NAKED
Posts: 8,168
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da fuck? Gish was a new take on classic rock. Save for the occasional Cheap Trick reference I don't know how you could say that about SD at all
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06-05-2020, 01:59 AM | #25 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,612
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Gish ripped off Jane's Addiction and Ted Nugent. Siamese Dream ripped off Rush and other classic rock motifs. Don't get me wrong, t's a great record. It's only ahead of its time sonically. Otherwise, it's derivative (in the best way possible).
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06-05-2020, 02:11 AM | #26 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,133
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I always felt Adore could've existed a hundred years before it did. It has this archaic, vintage quality and the whole approach is very gothic and turn of the century.
Obviously the reason it is electronic sounding is because there was more drum programming because of No Jimmy. But to me it doesn't necessarily sound dated, but then again that might be because I'm so used to it. |
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06-05-2020, 05:08 AM | #27 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,235
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While Adore sounded futuristic to me when it came out, it literally wore its influences on its sleeve. 17 Seconds is all you really need! The Cure already done the whole solemn guitar, piano and a bit of electronics thing nearly 2 decades before. WPC had the courtesy to tell us about it, thank you. And it's not like 17 Seconds itself came out of nowhere either.
Some of the songwriting is more "dramatic" and "90s" but you could put Nightmare, For Martha etc on a mix tape with Extremes "More than words" or Poisons "Every rose" and they wouldn't seem out of place in terms of songwriting or production.. |
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06-05-2020, 06:04 AM | #28 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,133
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Ah now come on! There's no way. Those songs are nothing alike, from production to arrangement to vocal delivery. Maybe something from the Gish-era would've been comparable. 1991 was still very much cock rock / hair metal time. I mean, just play the original version of "Alive" by Pearl Jam and then straight after it play "Wanted Dead or Alive" by Bon Jovi - THOSE sound like they could've been on the same album.
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06-05-2020, 07:06 AM | #29 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,235
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Quote:
Which really isn't all that dissimilar to Paul McCartney on stage, alone singing "Yesterday". And this is the exact purpose those songs serve in SP sets. They play some rock songs, then dim the lights, piano comes out, WPC puts a silly hat on, the lighters come out |
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06-05-2020, 08:56 AM | #30 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: Billy's Buttcrack
Posts: 1,687
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I just want to know which lyrics people think are so prescient on Zeitgeist. It's all just shit 13 year old poetry and saying "sakes alive"
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