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07-24-2009, 03:49 PM | #1 | |
Master of Karate and Friendship
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Minimum wage increase hits today!
One of the first actions by the Democratic congress takes effect today: the minimum wage increase!
Raising minimum wage may prolong recession, some economists say Evansville Courier & Press Quote:
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07-24-2009, 03:50 PM | #2 |
has great self of steam.
Location: SECRET OBAMA FUCKDEN RENDEZVOUS
Posts: 24,305
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This'll help struggling businesses, surely.
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07-24-2009, 04:18 PM | #3 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 7,240
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Another one for the ever-growing "It seemed like a good idea at the time" file.
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07-24-2009, 04:36 PM | #4 |
no more than sympathy
Location: lying on the floor
Posts: 14,826
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wait, giving workers more money that they can spend will prolong the recession, while giving rich people money they can spend in form of tax cuts will make it stop?
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07-24-2009, 05:04 PM | #5 |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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07-24-2009, 05:06 PM | #6 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 7,240
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Quote:
When you're rocketing towards double digit unemployment, the last thing you want to do is make it harder for employers to pay the employees they have, much less hire new ones. |
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07-24-2009, 05:10 PM | #7 |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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tons of studies and mixed results. both sides have data for their argument on this issue
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07-24-2009, 07:02 PM | #8 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: Woodinville, Wa.
Posts: 3,281
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the unemployment rate will definitely follow once the new minimum wage is enacted. stands to reason that employers who are not wanting to pay the going rate will cut back employees
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07-24-2009, 07:25 PM | #9 |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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that would be more convincing if this was the first time we've raised the minimum wage.
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07-24-2009, 08:37 PM | #10 |
Banned
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
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but is it the first time the min wage has been raised when unemployment is high?
this is the kind of stuff you do when the economy is roaring, not when it's slumping. I think that's plain to see unless you have some data contrary to this. not that i think it's necessary either way |
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07-24-2009, 10:07 PM | #11 |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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well the other line of thought is that this will increase consumer spending. but again, studies are mixed. all the increases of the past seem to be a wash overall, with little or no impact on employment.
not sure what that means in a down economy, eh, maybe you're right. we'll see. Last edited by Debaser : 07-24-2009 at 10:12 PM. |
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07-25-2009, 06:20 PM | #12 |
Registered User
Location: In my house.
Posts: 14,464
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We have to remember that a price floor is a bar over which the affected good or service has to jump in order to make it into the market. It is not a rising tide that lifts all boats.
Over time those workers who provide a marginal revenue product (MRP) of at or less than this new figure will lose their jobs. Those workers who are creating a higher MRP but are being paid lower than the market rate (which should not be happening, but will happen because of other interventions creating distortions - payroll tax, forced health care, forced non-monetary benefits, etc...) will see their wages rise to the new floor (but not without the cost of money coming indirectly from other, competing workers). Like all interventions, this will have unequal effects - some benefiting and some losing (as opposed to purely voluntary transactions, where all parties win). Those who benefit will be: - large corporations with lots of unskilled workers (who can afford to pay more) - skilled workers - unionised labourers - politicians who can use this as an emotional appeal for votes - foreign workers - underground or "illegal" workers Those who will lose are: - low skilled workers - women, blacks and minorities (who disproportionately have a lower MRP) - small and medium sized businesses - high school workers - the mentally challenged - people in transitional jobs |
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07-26-2009, 04:29 AM | #13 |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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07-26-2009, 01:57 PM | #14 |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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I will disagree with anybody who claims that minimum wage hurts the unemployment rate.
But at the same time, I won't argue with anybody who claims that the minimum wage doesn't really help the poverty rate. |
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07-26-2009, 02:12 PM | #15 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
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07-26-2009, 08:04 PM | #16 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: down in an alley, having had enough of it all
Posts: 2,619
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this raise in the wage really only affects the smallest portion of workers.
i mean if you are over 15 and not making more than minimum wage then ...you know fuck off. and giving wage slaves who are just living paycheck to paycheck, more money, will just send more money back into the system, so i see how it could help the depression slightly
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sunshine is days away i won't be saved i know all the words |
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07-27-2009, 03:57 AM | #17 |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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It doesn't hurt the unemployment rate, but it makes a lot of people underemployed when hours get cut
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07-27-2009, 04:37 AM | #18 | |
Registered User
Location: In my house.
Posts: 14,464
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Quote:
But logically speaking, a minimum wage is a price floor. There is no getting around that. Unless EVERYONE in society is more productive then the price floor, then some are banned from working. The reductio ad absurdum is relevant here - raising the minimum wage to $1,000,000 an hour is going to have the effect of banning almost the entire population from working - waiters won't suddenly get their wages raised to that rate. Whether it's an increase of $1 million, $10 or $.45 - it is going to have a proportional effect on employment. |
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07-27-2009, 04:53 AM | #19 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: thank you mario but our princess is in another castle
Posts: 3,209
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jczeroman you would love germany we dont have min wage
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07-27-2009, 04:54 AM | #20 |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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The people I feel badly for most are the workers who earned a 75 cent raise for effort and now make as much as the guy with no experience off the street
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07-27-2009, 05:11 AM | #21 |
Banned
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
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is that when you're not calling them losers and fuckups or...?
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07-27-2009, 05:59 AM | #22 |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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No matter what I call those people, it doesn't but food on their tables. Keep on distracting and never confronting issues though, it's what you're good at.
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07-27-2009, 07:22 PM | #23 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,652
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Quote:
Did you never work retail or what? If the new hires are making as much as you and you've been there for a year and earned those raises then you would expect to be compensated above the higher new hire wage. |
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07-27-2009, 07:35 PM | #24 |
has great self of steam.
Location: SECRET OBAMA FUCKDEN RENDEZVOUS
Posts: 24,305
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Did you never work for a shitty retail business or what? There are plenty of bosses who wouldn't give a flying fuck, and would say "Oh well, that's life".
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07-27-2009, 07:42 PM | #25 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,652
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Quote:
Even someone who is against the min wage increase (or existence) should be able to grasp this concept. |
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07-27-2009, 09:12 PM | #26 | |
has great self of steam.
Location: SECRET OBAMA FUCKDEN RENDEZVOUS
Posts: 24,305
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Quote:
I'm really getting the feeling that either you haven't had a retail/restaurant job, or you have the world's best retail/restaurant job and are completely clueless about how the rest of the industry works. |
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07-27-2009, 09:27 PM | #27 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,652
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Quote:
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07-27-2009, 09:29 PM | #28 | |
Banned
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
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Quote:
but you can keep acting like you're a compassionate person, everyone sees right through it. |
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07-27-2009, 09:36 PM | #29 |
has great self of steam.
Location: SECRET OBAMA FUCKDEN RENDEZVOUS
Posts: 24,305
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07-28-2009, 11:57 AM | #30 |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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