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Old 12-10-2020, 06:52 AM   #1
VoxUpDoc
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Default Taking Criticism: A Case Study from the Late 00's

In light of the ZG low vocal mix thread, I wanted to raise this pretty apt comparison of two big 90's alternative musicians who came under criticism for work released in the late 00', and how they reacted. Note: Yes, I am avoiding work.

2007 Bill releases Zeitgeist. It sits at a metacritic score of 59.

The major criticism from the fans was the tracklist omitting Stellar, Ma Belle and Zeitgeist but predominantly a harsh-sounding mix which emphasizes a shitty vocal performance floating above everything else.

If you’re going to rip on Zeitgeist, do it because it’s not very good. As has been proven in the Rock medium time and time again, money can’t buy class. It also can’t buy awareness... but that voice... In the Siamese Dream days, it used to lie just beyond our grasp, elusive and brittle and beautiful; you could even hear a little Kevin Shields in the way Corgan’s voice melted into the fuzz. Ever since then, it’s slowly crept to the forefront, to the point where it now seems as though Corgan’s right next to me as I write this. -tinymixtapes

How did the artist react? During the aftermath of the album underperforming, a disastrous anniversary tour where Billy seemed to blame the fans, he acknowledged the production decisions were unpopular during the reissue project announcement. He since removed Zeitgeist from streaming services, and whenever someone compliments the album he bitterly tells them to "ask the fans" why it isn't available anymore. 13 years later he has still barely addressed the vocal complaints and stubbornly puts them front and centre in every new release.

The counterpoint:

2008 Ben Folds releases Way To Normal. It sits at a Metacritic score of 62.

Whilst critics disliked a lot of the lyrical content, the major criticism from fans was the brickwalled and compressed mix. (It's been so long hardly any reviews of this album can be found online).

How did the artist react? Ben addressed the fans directly:

As you may have noticed, records have been getting louder and more compressed over the last ten years or so. Many like a loud record, many do not. The official version of "Way To Normal" is very loud and this was the intention. Loud records sound good on car stereos, iPods and on the radio. Quieter records are more dynamic and while they don't compete so well on a mix tape, they often sound better on good audio equipment.

Many of my fans are audiophiles and there have been requests for an alternate less compressed version of Way To Normal to be made available.
Although I stand behind the official version of this album and have the utmost respect for the producer and engineers involved, I'm a populist at heart and saw no reason not to provide a slightly different [album] for those who prefer more old fashioned dynamics along with a sequence that builds.

[Also included] is a disk of files, called stems, which will pop up in Garageband and allow you to mix the album yourselves. Just click on the file of the song you want to mix and you'll quickly understand how it works.

If you'd like to turn the drums off or down, or if you want to use loops or turn that damn singer off and sing it yourself, its all possible. We've included extra loops with the song "You Don't Know Me" hoping someone could maybe come along and make a hit out of this ****ing song.


A way to give fans what they wanted, whilst continuing to promote the record and make an extra buck. Classy.

Always worth remembering when Corgan throws insults at his fandom.

 
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Old 12-10-2020, 08:20 AM   #2
brothahi4L
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That is the point.... bill talking about love but giving hate whenever possible.

 
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Old 12-10-2020, 08:30 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brothahi4L View Post
That is the point.... bill talking about love but giving hate whenever possible.
Exactly, and whilst I'm sure Way to Normal has a lot less going on sonically than ZG, Ben Folds put out that "audiophile" mix and stems within 6 months.

Maybe instead of releasing a dozen different coloured sleeves or vinyls, Bill could release an old-school mix of his albums tailored to those in the fanbase who clearly dislike his attempts at " the modern, contemporary sound".

 
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Old 12-10-2020, 08:41 AM   #4
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What it boils down to essentially, is that Billy is a bit of a *checks notes* massive cunt.

 
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Old 12-10-2020, 11:43 AM   #5
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similarly, taylor swift just announced another new record, out of nowhere, no countdowns, 5 months after her last.

and it'll actually be good

 
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Old 12-10-2020, 11:47 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
similarly, taylor swift just announced another new record, out of nowhere, no countdowns, 5 months after her last.

and it'll actually be good
Yup, I cannot wait.

 
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Old 12-10-2020, 12:37 PM   #7
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I listened to the vocals down mix in the car this morning and... holy shit. Particularly on Starz and 7 Shades of Black, which are verbose to say the least... it's not just tolerable now but enjoyable. Even on United States, I used to cringe when the vocals start, because they're so abrasive and removed from the rest of the music.

Mad props to djzap. If Billy had mixed it like this, people wouldn't have hated it so much. Zeitgeist is clearly better than everything that came after it, I'm 100% confident of that now.

With the multitrack files or whatever, I think it could be even better

 
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Old 12-10-2020, 01:44 PM   #8
Joey Goldberg
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never heard the Ben Folds record but i feel like a more apt comparison in this particular case might be Death Magnetic, mostly 'cause the main criticisms i heard about that record were production/mastering related & people have even made their own fan mixes from fucking Guitar Hero stems

i see where yer going tho but Bill won't even put cool shit on bandcamp much less give fans access to actual fucking stems, lol. what do you think this is, Radiohead?

 
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Old 12-10-2020, 01:51 PM   #9
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Actually, Billy always said he didn't like the way Zeitgeist was mixed and that it will be fixed when they reissue it. Now, about it not being available online, he's made it clear that it's not his decision either, the "fans don't deserve it" is just a joke.

 
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