Revisionist History / The Machina Saga

[Big Truck05]

Eric Agnew sets the record straight with Billy's response to Machina reviews.

🧵 I get that memory ain't perfect, but SHEEIT this article needs some corrections. Namely, the whole bit about the "30 biggest SP social influencers" who heard Machina early & said "It's a piece of shit, don't listen to it...Thumbs down, run." That absolutely DID NOT HAPPEN. (1/ https://t.co/3flumZXUF5

— Eric (@th1rtyf0ur) March 13, 2023

[GreenDogGlynis]

yup, that definitely sounds like it never happened. if fans got to hear it early they would for sure hype it. Plus, were there even such a thing as influencers back then? Plus, no one would let another fan's opinion from keep from them listening to the album, especially back then.

[sweet17]

Originally Posted by GreenDogGlynis

Plus, were there even such a thing as influencers back then?

Eh, maybe not quite in the way we talk about them now, but I'd argue that there was, Eric among them.

If the goal of an influencer is to get people hyped about a product or brand, there's dozens of people who ran really quite successful fan sites, zines, newsletters, whatever, that would curate the content promoting the band, tours, albums, etc. There were also those that really fuelled the live/bootleg tape trading scene that kept rabid interest in a fan base between albums by giving them fresh music.

Remember listening to the Reel Time Sessions when they leaked? MCIS Demos? Mashed Potatoes? Even the Machine Home Demos? The trading elite created a mystique about these tapes by keeping them in tight circles but talking about them publicly, creating a sense of desire. Eventually, they would leak, and people who downloaded them felt like they were part of an exclusive few.

This is influencer-101: introduce and promote desire for a product, encourage a sense of superiority by being among the first in-the-know, and then let the keep-up-with-The-Jones' crowd join in en masse.

Again, not quite in the way we think of them now, but the skeleton of what was to come was there.

FFS, I even remember Monte posting cringe TikTok videos back in 2002/2003 of him dancing and being silly to clips of as-of-yet unheard Zwan studio songs leading up to the album.

Were these "influencers" successful in creating NEW fans of the band the way influencers are expected to drive new customers in 2023? That's a harder argument to make. But there were definitely members of the community who had both clout and the ability to hype up segments of the fan base.

That said, I mostly agree that those same existing fans probably would listen to a new album like Machina, even if the reviews were dreadful, to see for themselves. Maybe their personal opinions would be akin to confirmation bias if it matched the influencers? Idunno.

[eviltimeban]

Tiktok in 2002?

[sweet17]

Proto-TikTok?

I meant it more as a descriptive term than a proper noun.

It would be at home on TikTok today, but came a decade and a half early.

[Rairun]

Monte danced to Zwan and TFE songs long after release lol. He didn't have any inside info.

[phang]

I wonder if Billy hates his "past" music, fame, stories, memories etc etc so much because he can't fucking remember anything that happened in the 90s/00s?

It sure would explain a lot.

[Ram27]

yeah, i know he did a reasonable amount of drugs then. plus the molly binge after his mom died

it makes so much more sense, knowing that all washed away along with any ability to write that well

[Joey Goldberg]

tbh it really seems like a lot of the "machina lore" was made as a bit of an afterthought even at the time. i've never personally given much of a shit of whatever "concept" there was to this broken, unreleased double album 'cause I was too pre-occupied with the actual music and even the visuals around this to care

but yeah, sure Big Willie, twist it up! Glass Houses up in here! Machina 2, Machine 3, ATUM 4, it's all in the family innit? how many sequels to MCIS you think will be revealed to have been made when it's all truly said & done?

[NovaFritz]

I thought this was going to be about the Machina mystery

[NovaFritz]

Originally the whole thing was a sequel to the Perfect video

[phang]

Originally Posted by NovaFritz

Originally the whole thing was a sequel to the Perfect video

Which was in turn a sequel to the 1979 video!

IT'S ALL CONNECTED, SPITEFACE WAS JUNE WAS ZERO WAS GLASS WAS MIKE BYRNE WAS SHINY

[inkless]

what is the words on the machina album cover ?

[Ram27]

how come you suck

[Ram27]

oh sorry thought i opened the 'questions for bill' thread

[phang]

That's okay, we can forward it to him.

Anyone got a non-blocked IG account?

[sweet17]

Originally Posted by Rairun

Monte danced to Zwan and TFE songs long after release lol. He didn't have any inside info.

I remembered them being on the week of release -- just days before. But I dug up copies of a couple of the files, and you're right: they're dated 2005. I guess it really is revisionist history!