Sequel to Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness and Machina (33-song album)

[Forgotten Child]

To play on the radio or something? I mean, that's the weirdest thing about Billy. It seems like he's desperate to be musically relevant/popular again, still he refuses doing the easiest thing to get there, which would be writing an album in the style of SD or MCIS.

[slunken]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

To play on the radio or something? I mean, that's the weirdest thing about Billy. It seems like he's desperate to be musically relevant/popular again, still he refuses doing the easiest thing to get there, which would be writing an album in the style of SD or MCIS.

You realize how insane this sounds right? Billy thinks he's talented enough to "do it again" on different terms. He compares himself to Lennon, Dylan, and Young all the time. He thinks he's on that level. Writing those 90s styles of songs again will be him admitting defeat and realizing hes not as great as he thinks he is (which will never happen).

[slunken]

Since Zwan, I blame his management with fucking his head over.

[slunken]

"i wrote rat in a fucking cage why shouldn't i switch to the zither? i'm a genius afterall"

[slunken]

like,

dude,

look

[reprise85]

He thought he could take a sharp turn on Adore and when it "didn't work" commercially it broke him and he keeps trying

[Shallowed]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

RHCL

Red Hot Chili Lepers?

[slunken]

it would be pretty funny if tony changed the name of the band slightly for each release

[New Art Rioter]

Oceania was the deep dive revisit of some old school Pumpkins tropes. Looking back it was pretty successful compared to what came after but I'd bet Corgan would think it didn't work to push the band to the levels of the 90s

[incubator]

He's a smart guy and must know that (with all due respect) an overweight, bald 50 something with a weird voice making vaguely gothy synth pop isn't going to have a massive hit today. He's making the music he wants to make and he chats a lot of shit in interviews.

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by incubator

He's a smart guy and must know that (with all due respect) an overweight, bald 50 something with a weird voice making vaguely gothy synth pop isn't going to have a massive hit today. He's making the music he wants to make and he chats a lot of shit in interviews.

Is this the guy you're talking about?

[teh b0lly!!1]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

To play on the radio or something? I mean, that's the weirdest thing about Billy. It seems like he's desperate to be musically relevant/popular again, still he refuses doing the easiest thing to get there, which would be writing an album in the style of SD or MCIS.

why is everyone who's making this claim oblivious to the fact that he unsuccessfully tried already?

a song like Quasar is a clear example of trying to bring back the SD rawr

[incubator]

Originally Posted by TheAlter

Is this the guy you're talking about?

Yeah that’s the guy!! That’s him !!

[teh b0lly!!1]

if we look at the sum of all the parts that make up SP as an organism, then billy's songwriting has naturally aged and deteriorated from the early 20s peak, of course, but it's still in decent shape. he can still speak to me emotionally sometimes, behind walls of bad sound and off singing.

if his songs could still get the refinement and the orchestration that they once did from jc/iha + tasteful d'arcy judgement calls, i don't see why SP couldn't kick ass today as well. listening to their new music is a horrible experience in how good artists can psyche themselves out so badly that it's almost like they're making exclusively wrong choices.

whenever i listen to a bad SP 8.0 song it just screams for more decently produced vocals, a mix that wasn't totally ruined, more variety in parts. you know they're all capable of doing it, but they're just phoning something in, for whatever reason. it can be not caring that much anymore, or it can be because "they're trying to compete" in the music biz. either way it just does not feel sincere and worth listening to

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1

why is everyone who's making this claim oblivious to the fact that he unsuccessfully tried already?

a song like Quasar is a clear example of trying to bring back the SD rawr

AMEN

And Doomsday fucking Clock? United Statez? Solara?

If he were able to write another Cherub or Bullet or 1979 he would do it in a heartbeat.

[incubator]

He's going to take the sweet outside with this MCIS sequel. You'll see.

[TheAlter]

Can't wait! Think about all the dry-ass metal riffs and factory preset synth sounds he's going to cram into a 33-song opus magnum.

[VoxUpDoc]

Originally Posted by New Art Rioter

Oceania was the deep dive revisit of some old school Pumpkins tropes. Looking back it was pretty successful compared to what came after but I'd bet Corgan would think it didn't work to push the band to the levels of the 90s

There were no singles on it! None!

A few ok hooks later on in the album but the first half of Oceania is forgettable bottom-tier Pumpkins.

[incubator]

that was on purpose it was an absolutely groundbreaking full album experience.

[VoxUpDoc]

I mean he'd just recorded Tom, Tom, Owata etc. Nobody heard them because they part of the Teargarden project, and their production was crappy.

But scrub them up and they'd have made a stronger first half than... I can't even remember the tracks from the first half of Oceania honestly... One Candle One Fart, The Celestials... whatever Zzz.

Yes, those Teargarden tracks are better songs than most of Oceania, they were just produced in the worst possible way.

[VoxUpDoc]

If you were sat on the material for Oceania... something like this would've been more commercially viable (pretending for a second the TG tracks were re-recorded).

Teargarden (Theme)
Panopticon
Freak
Tom Tom
My Love Is Winter
Owata
The Chimera
Pinwheels
Oceania
Pale Horse
Glissandra
Inkless
Spangled (Hidden track: Cottonwood Symphony)

Quasar is fucking terrible, replaced with Teargarden theme out of disrespect.

[incubator]

Something like this would've been more commercially viable:

Produced by Jack Antonoff
Beautiful woman on the cover instead of a tower that contains such fragile beauty
Same songs but played slower and 2 steps down
WPC sings like Roger Miret of Agnostic Front fame
Put a banging donk on it

[VoxUpDoc]

Originally Posted by incubator

Something like this would've been more commercially viable:

Produced by Jack Antonoff
Beautiful woman on the cover instead of a tower that contains such fragile beauty
Same songs but played slower and 2 steps down
WPC sings like Roger Miret of Agnostic Front fame
Put a banging donk on it

Triple platinum.

[incubator]

Cyr could also be improved by having Roger Miret do all of the vocals and changing the lyrics to cover typical Roger Miret topics like living for the scene, dying for the scene, defending the scene and being betrayed by people within the scene.

[eviltimeban]

Oceania would've been better with Jimmy on drums (clearly) and a little bit of trimming. Like, we didn't really need One Diamond One Heart. But on a recent listen I was surprised as to the quality of tracks like Pale Horse, especially in comparison with the more recent albums.

SD existed because at that time that was a sound - shoegaze / grunge / 70s rock all went into the stew. He just took elements from Catherine, MBV, Zeppelin, Queen, and heavy metal, sang like a girl and gave the songs weird one-word titles. But that was a very 90s thing anyway.

This 33 track album could be anything, but I doubt we're getting another Cyr. I'd say what we'll get is something more like Teargarden, but with Jimmy on drums.

[incubator]

He said recently on Later...With Jools Holland (uk people can catch it on iplayer) that they set "a marker" in the 90s and then gave everyone 20 or so years to catch up. Now he's heard some contemporary acts that have caught up (he named Ohhms, The Microdance, Guilty Parents and some others) he's going to set another market but this time he's "extremely confident" that'll take way more than 20 years for anyone to catch up. He described it as "SP plus plus".

[VoxUpDoc]

Originally Posted by incubator

He said recently on Later...With Jools Holland (uk people can catch it on iplayer) that they set "a marker" in the 90s and then gave everyone 20 or so years to catch up. Now he's heard some contemporary acts that have caught up (he named Ohhms, The Microdance, Guilty Parents and some others) he's going to set another market but this time he's "extremely confident" that'll take way more than 20 years for anyone to catch up. He described it as "SP plus plus".

Not actually a recent episode I take it?

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by eviltimeban

SD existed because at that time that was a sound - shoegaze / grunge / 70s rock all went into the stew. He just took elements from Catherine, MBV, Zeppelin, Queen, and heavy metal, sang like a girl and gave the songs weird one-word titles. But that was a very 90s thing anyway.

Had it been so easy, everyone would have done it.

A lot of it was a product of pure, young, unfiltered talent, sensibility and luck. The moment he started overthinking, everything went to shit. The fucking gowns...

[jimmy drevpile]

Originally Posted by incubator

He said recently on Later...With Jools Holland (uk people can catch it on iplayer) that they set "a marker" in the 90s and then gave everyone 20 or so years to catch up. Now he's heard some contemporary acts that have caught up (he named Ohhms, The Microdance, Guilty Parents and some others) he's going to set another market but this time he's "extremely confident" that'll take way more than 20 years for anyone to catch up. He described it as "SP plus plus".

Link? Recently... (?)

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by Greatvegetable

I can guarantee with utmost certainty that he's never heard The Microdance and even if he had, he'd hate it with spiteful venom!

Of course he’d be upset. Track #2 off your album is basically a rip-off of Mouths of Babes!