Beidh Trump fós ina uachtarán?

[smashingjj]

uh no

far right politics are surging worldwide

it's an unstoppable reaction from neoliberal politics everywhere

[smashingjj]

Originally Posted by ovary

kamala gave independents and leftists many reasons not to vote for her. proof is in the pudding that her campaign was a total fucking disaster. should have had a primary, but i remember in the spring anyone who said that "wanted trump to win" and was "spreading misinformation about biden's health." i've voted democrat every election since i turned 18 and this cycle they've completely destroyed my loyalty. fuck them to hell, it's a pleasure to watch them lose. but also yeah obviously trump is somehow even worse by a lot.

anyway i think there are some silver linings here:

1. is neoliberalism dead??? seriously is neoliberalism over? big if true.

2. trump is less of a warhawk than kamala. i think it's reasonable to hope for more peace under trump. who knows what he will do, but kamala seemed pretty set on just bumping the death toll everywhere to keep the bomb factories spinning.

3. the left will decide omg doh gaza really is a genocide when trump's the one doing it and we will get more pressure

4. the democrats have an opportunity to rebuild a new message and new coalition around new talent. they probably wont but it's at least an opportunity.

5. we need a smaller government and less regulation. trump will probably not follow through on his promises to do that, and if he does he'll do it in a retarded way, but at least it is some movement on that problem (whereas under kamala we would have just gotten more spending, more admin bloat).

so, i mean, you know, we carry on.

I strongly agree with the first paragraph, 1, 3 and 4. trump did a shit load of drone strikes and wanting less government ironically leads to more government

[Disco King]

Originally Posted by MyOneAndOnly

Pot and free school, healthcare didn't stop Biden from winning 4 years ago.

Free schooling and legal pot also didn't help Harris this time. She was going to fund free tuition for two years of community college for two-year programs. Just like governor Walz implemented free community college tuition for families making under $80,000 in his own state.

Of course every person is going to say "if they just campaigned closer to my ideology (mutualist syndicalist anarcho-green space communism), they could have won," but there is absolutely no evidence that Harris' loss was due to not being progressive enough instead of due to the economy.

[Disco King]

Originally Posted by smashingjj

uh no

far right politics are surging worldwide

it's an unstoppable reaction from neoliberal politics everywhere

Back in 2016, I also thought people were supporting the far right because they were economically desperate after being hurt by neolib politics.

Then the data came out. Working-class people voted for Clinton, not Trump. White people with money who were afraid of losing their status and privilege to the minorities who've been getting too uppity recently were the ones who voted for Trump. Uneducated people also voted for Trump, whereas educated people voted for Clinton. And uneducated people tend to have less money than educated people. But when you controlled for education, the poor vote went to Clinton and the rich vote went to Trump.

It's like, I wanted to give Trump folks the benefit of the doubt. "They're not bad, they just felt like they were out of options." Nah, lol, it was comfortable honkies with two cars in their suburban garages feeling too much racial anxiety. I guess that makes sense when you remember that black people sitting wherever on the bus is still kinda new in the grand scheme of things.

[thomas_bland]

6.Garrison back as Trump

[MyOneAndOnly]

Trump identifies the people's enemies and hurts them. People want that.

Unfortunately if you hate "neo liberal economics" Trump won't actually change a single thing. He'll make it worse. But he'll put a few queers, libtards, and POC against a wall and give the angry mob their vengeance.

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by Disco King

Back in 2016, I also thought people were supporting the far right because they were economically desperate after being hurt by neolib politics.

Then the data came out. Working-class people voted for Clinton, not Trump. White people with money who were afraid of losing their status and privilege to the minorities who've been getting too uppity recently were the ones who voted for Trump. Uneducated people also voted for Trump, whereas educated people voted for Clinton. And uneducated people tend to have less money than educated people. But when you controlled for education, the poor vote went to Clinton and the rich vote went to Trump.

It's like, I wanted to give Trump folks the benefit of the doubt. "They're not bad, they just felt like they were out of options." Nah, lol, it was comfortable honkies with two cars in their suburban garages feeling too much racial anxiety. I guess that makes sense when you remember that black people sitting wherever on the bus is still kinda new in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah

historians consistently define American politics in terms of a cycle of reactionary racial resentment whether it's the Civil Rights Act or the rewriting of the Texas Constitution

it was naive for anyone to think Obama was the end of that

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by Disco King

Back in 2016, I also thought people were supporting the far right because they were economically desperate after being hurt by neolib politics.

Then the data came out. Working-class people voted for Clinton, not Trump. White people with money who were afraid of losing their status and privilege to the minorities who've been getting too uppity recently were the ones who voted for Trump. Uneducated people also voted for Trump, whereas educated people voted for Clinton. And uneducated people tend to have less money than educated people. But when you controlled for education, the poor vote went to Clinton and the rich vote went to Trump.

It's like, I wanted to give Trump folks the benefit of the doubt. "They're not bad, they just felt like they were out of options." Nah, lol, it was comfortable honkies with two cars in their suburban garages feeling too much racial anxiety. I guess that makes sense when you remember that black people sitting wherever on the bus is still kinda new in the grand scheme of things.

It's not all just hate. The white working class has been economically wrecked by the post NAFTA economy. Despite NAFTA and the core of that outsourcing economic agenda being Republican policy for 40 years, Trump blames the Dems for it. This is why union voters in Michigan like Trump. They think he's going to bring jobs back. I grew up in one of those Union Families on Michigan... When you take away economic prospects from those blue collar men, it's very easy to motivate them with hatred. Because they're also all racists bigots. But as long as times were good they mostly went a long with liberalism. After all that was what fueled their economic prosperity.

These are the white workers who were against bussing in the 70s/80s. Who voted for Reagan and Clinton in the 80s and 90s. But support social security and other basic welfare state policies.

My father worked a union factory job in Michigan and made a 6 figure income in the 90s and aughts before he died. My little brother (who is 40 and a lot like our father) hasn't made more than 40k a year any year of his life. He's had a dozen blue collar jobs over the last 2 decades, each one Ending in a layoff. He has every right to be angry and pissed off. Lucky for me he's not a Trumper. But there are millions of men like him and Trump gives them someone to cheer for. But Dems just give them promises of "job training" and other intangibles that they see as lies.

[paranoid]

Originally Posted by Disco King

Walz was the most popular politician in the entire race. People like him.

Hard disagree.

[paranoid]

Dems propped up a black woman with about 100 days to campaign when Trump's been campaigning for nearly a decade.

I agree with whoever said it was naive to think Obama was the end of racism. It just added more gas to the fire. People forget, but 2008 campaign was ugly. tea party. I remember my lifelong republican father sending me photoshopped pics of obama in middle east headdress, shaking osama bin ladens hand with the subject "he's a muslim, don't vote for him." Then Obama wins and my neighbor shouting "it's not going to happen. an N word will never be president, he needs to be hanged before being sworn in!"

even worse in 2012.

Then Hillary runs, and loses. First female candidate on a major ticket.

When Biden dropped and endorsed harris, it was pretty obvious to me this country was not ready for that. She's a woman, and she's not white?! it's terrible, but i think that's what it comes down to. All the dem talking heads going on about how women we're going to turn out for her, and here we are with white women voting for trump. no idea why that surprises anyone.

[Elphenor]

Trump rode into politics on the back of Birtherism

he is the manifestation of a hatred under which all good faith and civility on the right disintegrated and you saw it happening in real time during the Obama administration

[paranoid]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

Trump rode into politics on the back of Birtherism

he is the manifestation of a hatred under which all good faith and civility on the right disintegrated and you saw it happening in real time during the Obama administration

yup. he'd have been a more effective president if it wasn't for that. they didn't want him to win, because it was a threat to their future. so they did everything in their power to either slow him down and stop him.

[paranoid]

Mccain was the only one to speak out against it, and accepted his loss gracefully. not sarah palin. she was the beginning of the crazy right wing getting a spotlight.

he beat romney because romney was a weak candidate.

[Squish Squash]

Trump wasn’t really any more popular than he was in 2020. Harris got 20 million less votes than Biden. If you can’t see that’s because of the Dems actions in Gaza, immigration/border and cozying up to the Cheneys, well you probably also believe Clinton, Obama and Biden were great presidents.

Yes there are a lot of fascist fucks who vote for Trump but they can’t elect him if the entire left shows up and votes. It’s up to the candidate to bring out those left wing voters by actually appealing to them, not Dick fucking Cheney.

[Squish Squash]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

you grossly misunderstand what drove Latino voters to Trump. It was not left identity politics.

Millions of Latino voters stayed home because of the Dems rhetoric on immigration.

Your unwillingness to admit when you’re wrong despite being proven so is honestly incredible.

[Squish Squash]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

whatever, Biden was a good administrator, Harris would have been a good administrator, now we're in for 4 years of chaotic corporate deregulation and tax cuts for the ultra wealthy, the real working people of America, ya know. and Trump will consolidate executive power and appoint 2 more justices, giving him 5 out of 9 lolol that's totally normal I mean groceries are so expensive and she has a weird laugh so the choice was really hard

Biden is the reason we’re in this mess. What kind of “good administrator” behaves the way he did? Christ. Yes it’s all the crazy Bernie bros faults, never the Dems. So true Jake Tapper.

[Squish Squash]

Originally Posted by smashingjj

I strongly agree with the first paragraph, 1, 3 and 4. trump did a shit load of drone strikes and wanting less government ironically leads to more government

He started of well then went into weird libertarian crank Trump apologia. Trump is very much a Warhawk and a big government stooge. Insane anyone argues this.

[Squish Squash]

Originally Posted by Disco King

Free schooling and legal pot also didn't help Harris this time. She was going to fund free tuition for two years of community college for two-year programs. Just like governor Walz implemented free community college tuition for families making under $80,000 in his own state.

Of course every person is going to say "if they just campaigned closer to my ideology (mutualist syndicalist anarcho-green space communism), they could have won," but there is absolutely no evidence that Harris' loss was due to not being progressive enough instead of due to the economy.

No evidence besides the millions of Democratic voters who stayed home.

[Squish Squash]

Originally Posted by paranoid

Dems propped up a black woman with about 100 days to campaign when Trump's been campaigning for nearly a decade.

I agree with whoever said it was naive to think Obama was the end of racism. It just added more gas to the fire. People forget, but 2008 campaign was ugly. tea party. I remember my lifelong republican father sending me photoshopped pics of obama in middle east headdress, shaking osama bin ladens hand with the subject "he's a muslim, don't vote for him." Then Obama wins and my neighbor shouting "it's not going to happen. an N word will never be president, he needs to be hanged before being sworn in!"

even worse in 2012.

Then Hillary runs, and loses. First female candidate on a major ticket.

When Biden dropped and endorsed harris, it was pretty obvious to me this country was not ready for that. She's a woman, and she's not white?! it's terrible, but i think that's what it comes down to. All the dem talking heads going on about how women we're going to turn out for her, and here we are with white women voting for trump. no idea why that surprises anyone.

I am mixed race and Jewish so I would never deny the massive impact racism has on American society but Obama was pretty damn popular. I think he would have beat Trump if he could have run for a third time. Charisma goes a long way.

[redbreegull]

you're wrong too many times to even warrant a response list, but Trump absolutely did improve on his performance from 4 years ago. He improved with rural areas, he improved with suburban areas, he improved with young people, and with minorities. virtually the only demographic he did not do better with is women

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Squish Squash

Millions of Latino voters stayed home because of the Dems rhetoric on immigration.

Where is your evidence for this? The stats I have been looking at over the last 24 hours point to millions of Latin voters voting for Trump because they LIKE his stance on immigration, not withholding a vote for Harris because the Dems aren't liberal enough on it

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Squish Squash

Trump wasn’t really any more popular than he was in 2020.

Sure if you ignore the fact that he actually is more popular and his approval rating is way above where it has historically been throughout his candidacies and first term. So in opposite land, you're correct.

[paranoid]

Originally Posted by Squish Squash

Trump wasn’t really any more popular than he was in 2020. Harris got 20 million less votes than Biden. If you can’t see that’s because of the Dems actions in Gaza, immigration/border and cozying up to the Cheneys, well you probably also believe Clinton, Obama and Biden were great presidents.

Yes there are a lot of fascist fucks who vote for Trump but they can’t elect him if the entire left shows up and votes. It’s up to the candidate to bring out those left wing voters by actually appealing to them, not Dick fucking Cheney.

trump actually made a lot of gains in this election. He lost New Jersey by 4 points, for example, which is insane.

[redbreegull]

Trump made huge inroads through the Biden coalition. He picked up a LOT of men, and a substantive number of people from ethnic minorities, as well as cutting deep into the suburbs that helped the Dems in 2020 and even convincing a lot of young people to vote for him whose minds have been in the skibidi toilet

[Disco King]

Originally Posted by paranoid

Hard disagree.

Hard disagree with the people who like him, or hard disagree that people like him?

Tim Walz is the most popular candidate on either ticket

[paranoid]

Originally Posted by Disco King

Hard disagree with the people who like him, or hard disagree that people like him?

Tim Walz is the most popular candidate on either ticket

cool, an article with a paywall.

I think his popularity was fleeting.

[Disco King]

Originally Posted by paranoid

cool, an article with a paywall.

I think his popularity was fleeting.

Not that running mates even matter, but here you go:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...lity/tim-walz/
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...kamala-harris/
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com.../donald-trump/
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...lity/jd-vance/

Most popular candidate on either ticket.

[Squish Squash]

It's very funny redbreegull CONFIDENTLY says things that are provably wrong. Trump got ~2 million less votes than he did in 2020 as of 87% reporting. Considering the population is continuously growing and more people are coming of voting age, that isn't really impressive for him at all. The election was about liberal voters staying home (so far Kamala has ~20 million less votes than Biden got), not Trump doing better. A higher percentage of latinos voted for Trrump because left wing stayed home thanks to the Dems baffling anti-immigration rhetoric, while the right-wing latinos still turned out.

People were right about the Dems needing to appeal more to the working class in 2016 and 2024, and the only thing that saved Biden in 2020 was covid, so you'd think he'd stop thinking appealing to the right is some winning strategy, but alas.

[redbreegull]

so tell me again what evidence you are looking at, I must have missed it the first time

[redbreegull]

you're working with some funny assumptions. 1) there's no way to know which voters from 2020 stayed home vs came out vs came out and switched parties. polling will give us some idea of this later but simply seeing less Dem doesn't mean every one of them stayed home. A lot of people in the center switched from Biden to Trump. 2) there's no assurance that any particular election will gain any number of new voters just because the population is growing and more people are eligible to vote. people die too and then they can't vote as far as I know, and the youth vote is extremely unreliable. 2020 was the biggest turnout in history, so there was no guarantee this one was going to be as big

as another point many voters in purple states voted split ticket. Dems did well locally in places Trump won by several percentage points or more. So it seems plausible that a substantive number of Biden voters went Trump and then the Dems for other offices.