Beidh Trump fós ina uachtarán?

[Squish Squash]

Originally Posted by paranoid

Yup. She thought she’d win over people on the right with that, but right leaning people are ride or die.

And it was celebrated by left leaning media. Jon Stewart was the only one that called it out as bullshit.

Redbreegull called me a moron for saying that she needed to appeal to the left not the right. Almost as if he doesn't know shit about politics. God the arrogance some liberals. It's infuriating.

[Toast]

Originally Posted by Disco King

H

It wasn't a winning campaign, but it was a strong campaign.

They ran an awful campaign that started when they handed an unpopular candidate the nomination, who wouldn't answer questions because she knew how bad her answers would sound, and who picked a blubbering buffoon of a running mate instead of the popular governor of an important swing state. But yeah, other than that, I guess it was a strong campaign

Losing could be good for democrats if they admit why they lost and cut it out. Or they will say they lost because of nazis and continue with the nonsense.

[Disco King]

Originally Posted by Squish Squash

Harris refused to give any indication she would bring about a ceasefire in Gaza, campaigned on being tough on the border/immigration, and was being buddy with Liz Cheney and her dad, one of the most evil men in history. For this reason, she massively turned off large swathes of her own base, namely latino americans, muslim americans and progressives. What legitimately left wing major legislation was she championing either? Crumbs, like I said. The Democratic voter base wants legal marijuana federally, free college, free healthcare, student loan forgiveness, etc.

Foreign policy wasn't a major election issue. It rarely is. This election wasn't decided on the Israel-Palestine conflict.

Most Americans are statists and want controlled borders. Believe it or not, Harris was seen as too soft on immigration. Even by many Latino Americans, because, as it turns out, (1) "Latinos" are such a heterogeneous group with wildly different backgrounds, and (2) it turns out a lot of immigrants are happy to have the ladder pulled up after they climb it, and can be just as worried about new immigration after them as native-born Americans are. And immigration, unlike foreign policy, is a big election issue.

Legalizing marijuana was part of Harris' platform. And Biden is already waiting for the DOJ to approve his attempt to reschedule it from a Shedule I to a Schedule II drug. And he federally pardoned all Americans who've used marijuana.

[Squish Squash]

Originally Posted by Disco King

Foreign policy wasn't a major election issue. It rarely is. This election wasn't decided on the Israel-Palestine conflict.

Most Americans are statists and want controlled borders. Believe it or not, Harris was seen as too soft on immigration. Even by many Latino Americans, because, as it turns out, (1) "Latinos" are such a heterogeneous group with wildly different backgrounds, and (2) it turns out a lot of immigrants are happy to have the ladder pulled up after they climb it, and can be just as worried about new immigration after them as native-born Americans are. And immigration, unlike foreign policy, is a big election issue.

Legalizing marijuana was part of Harris' platform. And Biden is already waiting for the DOJ to approve his attempt to reschedule it from a Shedule I to a Schedule II drug. And he federally pardoned all Americans who've used marijuana.

You will never learn.

[Disco King]

Originally Posted by Squish Squash

You will never learn.

Hey, but at least you just learned something. You learned just now that something you claimed wasn't part of somebody's platform actually was.

[Disco King]

The reason the Democrats lost is that the average American who isn't part of a Bakunin reading group wishes the Democrats proposed open borders, nationalized Burger King, and talked more about things happening in other countries.

[Disco King]

But because nobody was going to do that, they said "I guess I have to vote for the right-wing guy who wants the opposite of that ��*♂️"

[paranoid]

Originally Posted by Toast

and who picked a blubbering buffoon of a running mate instead of the popular governor of an important swing state.

Yeah I agree with that. Bad move, but they were over confident and thought they had PA in the bag. I’ll admit walz seemed promising at first and then seemed really weak and annoying by the time he debated Vance. Vance fucking sucks but he seemed more poised during the debate and I could tell that was going to be bad for Harris.

[Disco King]

Walz was the most popular politician in the entire race. People like him.

The choice of running mate has almost zero impact on votes, though. Nobody cares who the running mate is when it comes to voting. Candidates tend to pick running mates who are supposed to appeal to the demographics that the candidate is weaker on, but this has always been based more on "well, it certainly can't hurt" logic than on any evidence that it helps.

[great poster]

insane, trump actually won again. the shitstorm will be immense when I wake up

[smashingjj]

Originally Posted by Squish Squash

You will never learn.

Much like the Democratic Party.

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by Disco King

(2) it turns out a lot of immigrants are happy to have the ladder pulled up after they climb it, and can be just as worried about new immigration after them as native-born Americans are. And immigration, unlike foreign policy, is a big election issue.

This was depressing to see

I remember there was once an optimism for Democrats that changing demographics would move the country left

[smashingjj]

Please correct me if i'm wrong but this bullshit about Biden's "wide open borders" were typical Trump lies yes? From what i gathered Biden was just as inhumane on immigration as Trump and didn't change laws implemented under Trump.

[smashingjj]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

This was depressing to see

I remember there was once an optimism for Democrats that changing demographics would move the country left

Well left would be an exaggeration considering how rightwing many policies of the democrats were. If only the left had a viable alternative in America, where being against genocide, wars, fracking etc etc isn't considered crazy fringe politics. The people that are generally in favour of that know who to vote for.

[Elphenor]

left relative to where swing states are at now

[smashingjj]

Yeah let's not get crazy

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Squish Squash

Harris refused to give any indication she would bring about a ceasefire in Gaza, campaigned on being tough on the border/immigration, and was being buddy with Liz Cheney and her dad, one of the most evil men in history. For this reason, she massively turned off large swathes of her own base, namely latino americans, muslim americans and progressives. What legitimately left wing major legislation was she championing either? Crumbs, like I said. The Democratic voter base wants legal marijuana federally, free college, free healthcare, student loan forgiveness, etc.

you grossly misunderstand what drove Latino voters to Trump. It was not left identity politics.

[redbreegull]

Or if it was it's more accurate to characterize the shift as a reaction against left identity politics especially among men, and the Latino population in the US is fairly conservative to begin with. But a lot of it had to do with groceries and gas, the same old dumbass shit that Americans never learn is mostly out of a president's control

[Elphenor]

well authoritarian regimes are the norm, not the exception in the world

people still manage to live good lives in China and Russia

[Disco King]

People in the majority and dominant groups get on okay, I guess.

R.I.P. trans people and disabled people and stuff

[Disco King]

You know what, I'm suddenly okay with having a monarchy in Canada.

Even though our conservatives aren't as bad as American ones, that's just how it is right now, because anything that happens in the U.S. just happens ten years later in Canada. We'll hit the point where our conservatives think it's cool to breach democratic norms and try to overturn elections eventually.

And when we do, at least the representative of some inbred geezer across the pond will be like "lol, no" and give them a proper spanking.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by Squish Squash

Harris refused to give any indication she would bring about a ceasefire in Gaza, campaigned on being tough on the border/immigration, and was being buddy with Liz Cheney and her dad, one of the most evil men in history. For this reason, she massively turned off large swathes of her own base, namely latino americans, muslim americans and progressives. What legitimately left wing major legislation was she championing either? Crumbs, like I said. The Democratic voter base wants legal marijuana federally, free college, free healthcare, student loan forgiveness, etc.

I am not seeing any data to support the notion that Dem base was "turned off". If you look at pre election polling the war in Israel was not a factor nationally.

Biden did forgive huge amounts of student debt.. and couldn't do any more only because of SCOTUS.

Pot and free school, healthcare didn't stop Biden from winning 4 years ago.

It looks more like it was Inflation that doomed Biden, and Harris was unable to get past that.

But when you zoom in on the details of that result, there’s a striking pattern: Democratic Senate candidates are outperforming Harris. Or, put another way, Republican Senate candidates are doing worse than Trump.

https://www.vox.com/2024-elections/3...ate-candidates

[MyOneAndOnly]

Dems were always going to lose the Senate. If Harris depressed the Dem base it would show in terrible Senate performance. But Dem Senate candidates did well. They won in states like Michigan, that Trump won. If turnout was poor in Dem base, Slotkin would have lost her Senate race. She won. Same in Pennsylvania, Casey won.

I agree that things like school and healthcare ought to be front and center. But there's little indication that is what lost her the race. She was pulling huge crowds and got strong turnout in Dem cities. She lost because of inflation. And because she couldn't/didn't run against Biden's economic record.

Biden should have dropped out in 2023, and allowed a real primary so that Dems could maybe find a candidate that was unencumbered by B ok Dems inflation record.

[redbreegull]

some people didn't vote because of Gaza but it probably wasn't very many. foreign policy ranked at the bottom of people's concerns according to exit polls

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by smashingjj

Please correct me if i'm wrong but this bullshit about Biden's "wide open borders" were typical Trump lies yes? From what i gathered Biden was just as inhumane on immigration as Trump and didn't change laws implemented under Trump.

mostly. crossings were down under Trump because of the pandemic. Biden also didn't actively try to throw refugees and children of migrants out of the country

[redbreegull]

the racist right is very sore about aiding people fleeing from war and starvation because they're eating the dogs they're eating the cats

[redbreegull]

whatever, Biden was a good administrator, Harris would have been a good administrator, now we're in for 4 years of chaotic corporate deregulation and tax cuts for the ultra wealthy, the real working people of America, ya know. and Trump will consolidate executive power and appoint 2 more justices, giving him 5 out of 9 lolol that's totally normal I mean groceries are so expensive and she has a weird laugh so the choice was really hard

[ovary]

kamala gave independents and leftists many reasons not to vote for her. proof is in the pudding that her campaign was a total fucking disaster. should have had a primary, but i remember in the spring anyone who said that "wanted trump to win" and was "spreading misinformation about biden's health." i've voted democrat every election since i turned 18 and this cycle they've completely destroyed my loyalty. fuck them to hell, it's a pleasure to watch them lose. but also yeah obviously trump is somehow even worse by a lot.

anyway i think there are some silver linings here:

1. is neoliberalism dead??? seriously is neoliberalism over? big if true.

2. trump is less of a warhawk than kamala. i think it's reasonable to hope for more peace under trump. who knows what he will do, but kamala seemed pretty set on just bumping the death toll everywhere to keep the bomb factories spinning.

3. the left will decide omg doh gaza really is a genocide when trump's the one doing it and we will get more pressure

4. the democrats have an opportunity to rebuild a new message and new coalition around new talent. they probably wont but it's at least an opportunity.

5. we need a smaller government and less regulation. trump will probably not follow through on his promises to do that, and if he does he'll do it in a retarded way, but at least it is some movement on that problem (whereas under kamala we would have just gotten more spending, more admin bloat).

so, i mean, you know, we carry on.

[redbreegull]

Trump dropped more bombs in 4 years than Obama did in 8, no?

[Elphenor]

I think historians will understand the Trump phenomenon as the unstoppable reaction to 8 years of a black president