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Old 11-17-2012, 04:09 PM   #1
killtrocity
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Default Another Jewish-Palestinian conflict thread

http://www.btselem.org/topic/gaza_strip
Quote:
Background on the Gaza Strip
Published:
1 Jan 2011

Since the beginning of the second intifada, Israel has imposed harsh restrictions on freedom of movement to and from the Gaza Strip. As part of this policy, Israel has almost completely severed the Gaza Strip from the West Bank, causing Palestinian movement between the two areas to fall drastically. Entry of residents of the Gaza Strip to Israel for family visits or to enable spouses to live together is forbidden, and family visits to Gaza by Arab citizens and residents of Israel have been reduced to a minimum. Israel has made it difficult for Gaza residents to go abroad, and many have been denied exit altogether.

Import and export of goods is limited, and frequently stopped completely. In addition, only a small number of Gazans have been allowed to work in Israel, and tens of thousands of Gazans have lost their source of income. The restrictions on movement of goods and workers have caused a deep recession in the Strip, impaired Gazans' ability to work, and brought about a sharp decrease in the standard of living. The poverty rate has risen by more than 40 percent.

In September 2005, Israel completed the "Gaza disengagement plan," which included dismantlement of the settlements in the Gaza Strip, evacuation of the settlers to Israel, and withdrawal of the army from the Strip. After the plan was completed, Israel issued an order declaring the end of the military government in the Gaza Strip and claimed it was no longer responsible for the safety and well-being of the residents there. In doing so, Israel ignored the harsh reality in the Gaza Strip following its prolonged occupation, the closure it had imposed on the area for more than a decade, and the dependence of the Palestinian economy on the Israeli labor market and trade with Israel.

The army's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and dismantlement of the settlements resulted in considerable improvement in the freedom of movement of Palestinians within the Strip. However, Israel continued to control the crossings into Israel and the air and sea space of the Strip, and decisions regarding the movement of persons and goods into and from the Strip remained in its hands. Although Rafah Crossing on the Egyptian border operated for seven months after the disengagement, in accord with an agreement reached by Israel and the Palestinian Authority, enabling movement to Egypt, it was closed after the abduction of the soldier Gilad Shalit in June 2006.

In June 2007, after Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip, Israel further tightened its control of the crossings. Since then, it has been almost impossible for Palestinians to enter or leave the Strip, or to export or import goods. Three months after the Hamas takeover, in response to the ongoing firing of Qassam rockets at Israel, Israel's security cabinet declared the Strip a “hostile entity” and decided on collective punitive measures, including reducing the supply of electricity and fuel to the Strip.

The siege on the Gaza Strip has led to a substantial drop in the availability of necessities and medicines there and a sharp rise in their prices. Most factories and hundreds of businesses have closed. In 2009, the number of unemployed persons in the Gaza Strip rose to 140,000, some 40 percent of the workforce there. This policy infringes the right of Palestinians in the Strip to work and earn a living with dignity and their right to an adequate standard of living.

After implementation of the disengagement plan, some Palestinian organizations in the Strip continued to fired rockets and mortars at Israeli communities close to the Green Line, in violation of fundamental principles of international humanitarian law, under which intentional gunfire at civilians constitutes a war crime. From September 2005 to the end of November 2009, 11 Israelis were killed by the rocket and mortar fire.

For its part, Israel has employed a variety of means, among them artillery fire at what the army refers to as “Qassam launching spaces” and areas near the border that are classified as “death zones.” The open-fire regulations permit firing at Palestinians found in these zones even if they are not life-threatening. Israel has increased its targeted killing of Palestinians it alleges are involved in attacks against Israel. The targeted-killing operations have also killed many bystanders. According to B'Tselem's figures, since the implementation of the disengagement plan, Israel has killed 52 bystanders (27 of them minors) in these operations.

Since the disengagement, the army has conducted several ground-forces operations in the Strip. For example, following the abduction of the soldier Gilad Shalit on 26 June 2006, Israel initiated an extensive operation, which was given the name Summer Rains. In the operation, the army bombed civilian infrastructure and made incursions into crowded population centers. Since then, Israel has attacked the Gaza Strip several times.

In all these actions (until 26 December 2008), Israel killed 522 Palestinians who were not taking part in the hostilities. This number included 195 minors, 49 women, and 25 men over age 50.

On 27 December 2008, Israel began its most extensive operation, which it called Cast Lead. Operation Cast Lead continued until 18 January 2009 and caused unprecedented harm to the civilian population - 1,389 Palestinians were killed, including 759 civilians who did not take part in the hostilities, and thousands were wounded. Israel also caused enormous damage to buildings and infrastructure, causing electricity, water, and sewage facilities, which were on the verge of collapse before the operation, to cease functioning completely. According to UN figures, Israel destroyed over 3,500 residential dwellings, leaving large numbers of persons homeless.

Contrary to Israel's contention that, following the disengagement, it is no longer obligated to care for the safety and welfare of Gaza residents, international law imposes certain obligations. Under human rights law, Israel is required to respect the rights of Gaza residents in matters in which control remains in its hands. These obligations result from the scope of actual control over major facets of the residents' lives that Israel continued to hold after the disengagement, and from the almost total dependence of the Strip's economy on the Israeli economy, a result of the prolonged occupation.

When an armed conflict is taking place in the Gaza Strip, Israel is also bound by the provisions of international humanitarian law, under which civilians must remain outside the cycle of the hostilities. Two fundamental principles - distinction and proportionality - are intended to ensure this. Under these principles, it is absolutely forbidden to intentionally attack civilians, and when an attack is aimed at a military object, the anticipated harm to civilians may not be excessive in comparison with the direct military advantage anticipated. In addition, during the hostilities, Israel must provide special protection to certain groups, among them the sick, the wounded, and children, and must enable medicines and necessary foodstuffs to feely enter the area and medical teams to treat the sick and wounded.

http://www.btselem.org/water/statistics



http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

Quote:
Israeli professor calls for a new Zionism

“It was our nationalism...which drew the country into an occupation and settlement of the West Bank...None of the leaders of the Labor movement believed that the Palestinians deserved the same right [as Jews] because none of them believed in universal rights. Pretending, like [Arthur] Hertzberg and others do, that the Occupation and the colonial situation created in the last thirty years was merely the product of the Arab refusal to recognize Israel, is no more than looking for an alibi and falsifying history...

“The time has come to say that if the settlements in Judea and Samaria or in the very heart of Hebron are the natural, logical and legitimate continuation of the original intention of Zionism, then we need another Zionism. If a ‘Jewish State’ that does not recognize the absolute equality of all human beings is considered to be closer to the spirit of the founding fathers than a new liberal Zionism, then it is time to say good-bye to the ghosts of the founders, and to start forging for ourselves an identity detached from the mystical ramifications of our religion and the irrational side of our history.” Israeli professor of political science, Ze’ev Sternhell, in “Tikkun”, May/June 1998.
Quote:
Conclusion I
For Jewish Readers

As we have seen, the root cause of the Palestine-Israel conflict is clear. During the 1948 war, 750,000 Palestinians fled in terror or were actively expelled from their ancestral homeland and turned into refugees. The state of Israel then refused to allow them to return and either destroyed their villages entirely or expropriated their land, orchards, houses, businesses and personal possessions for the use of the Jewish population. This was the birth of the state of Israel.

We know it is hard to accept emotionally, but in this case the Jewish people are in the wrong.We took most of Palestine by force from the Arabs and blamed the victims for resisting their dispossession. If you run into someone’s car, for whatever reason, simple justice demands that you repair it. Our moral obligation to the Palestinian people is no less clear. It is time for all Jewish people of good conscience to make whatever amends are possible to the Palestinians in order to live up to the best part of the Jewish tradition — its ethical and moral basis.

Any criticism of Israel is traditionally seen by American Jews as harmful to the Jewish people, even if the criticism is true. But “my people, right or wrong, my people” is no different than “my country, right or wrong, my country”. Once we start down the slippery slope where the ends justify the means we have left behind any claim to morality. Along with millions of other American Jews unaffiliated with the major U.S. Jewish organizations, we are outraged at the Israeli government’s ongoing oppression of the Palestinians and feel that it has been the ruination of the high moral standing of the Jewish people.

The Israeli government could solve the Palestine/Israel crisis tomorrow. It actually would be in the best interests of its citizens to do so because random acts of terrorism against Israelis would cease if Palestinian demands for a viable, independent state were accepted and compensation for Arab losses made.

Here in America, we Jews are thoroughly assimilated into the mainstream of society and hold positions of power and influence in every field of endeavor. We do not need to be in a defensive mood anymore. We can afford to change out attitude from “is it good the the Jews?” to “Is it good?” At the very least, American Jews need to categorically state that we cannot condone Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestinian land, and the intentional murder and crippling of Palestinian protestors armed only with rocks, as documented in reports by the UN Security Council, the UN Human Rights Commission, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Israeli groups like B’Tselem, etc.

According to a survey commissioned by the five largest American Jewish organizations, but suppressed by them afterwards, 20% of American Jews support Palestinian demands and 35% say that Jerusalem should be shared. This, in the face of a near-total blackout of the Palestinian position in our press, is very impressive. Join this growing segment of American Jews by contacting Not In My Name, at www.nimn.org, a group that is spearheading a coalition of Jewish groups to protest the Israeli occupation.

Israel’s long-term interests can best be served by supporting Israeli peace groups, like Gush Shalom (www.gush.shalom.org), not the Israeli government and its brutal repression, which just leads to endless violence. Israeli peace groups rightfully criticize their government and we should too, since they claim to act in our name. American groups like the Jewish Peace Lobby, Jewish Voice For Peace and the Middle East Children’s Alliance also deserve your support. Don’t compromise yout ethics in blind support of bad politics—work for a just soultion instead.

Please write for more free copies of this booklet to the address on the back page and ask your Jewish friends to consider the information presented here. For everyone’s sake. Peace.

Important Note: at the end of the next section, Conclusion II, there is a list of Jewish organizations in America and Israel, and links to their websites, which are informative and interesting. We encourage to explore them with an open mind.


------------------------------------------------


Conclusion II

We hope that this look at the historical record concerning the root cause of the Middle East conflict will give second thoughts to all who have previously supported Israel’s actions.

The persecution of the Jews for centuries in Europe was the worst of many stains on the European record, and the Zionists’ desire for a place of sanctuary is certainly understandable. Like all other colonial enterprises, however, Zionism was based on the total disregard of the rights of indigenous inhabitants. As such, it is morally indefensible. And, as previously stated, all subsequent crimes — and there have been many on both sides — inevitably follow from this original injustice to the Palestinians.

Given the damage that has been done to the Palestinian people, Israel’s obligation is to make whatever amends possible. Among these should be assisting the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state in the entire West Bank and Gaza with its capital in East Jerusalem. Israel should not object to this state and, in addition, should help with its foundation via generous reparations. Besides being the right thing to do, this would stop the sporadic acts of violence against Israel, as the Palestinians’ legitimate desire for their own state would be realized. Moreover, all laws that discriminate against non-Jews living in Israel should be repealed.

Given the history outlined in this paper, we conclude that the Palestinians have gotten “the short end of the stick” and that justice demands that wrongs should be righted. Full and complete justice would entail allowing any Palestinian to return to Israel if they wished but, practically speaking, we understand that this is a recipe for even more bloodshed. Therefore, recognizing that reality, we join Gush Shalom and other Israeli peace groups in calling for a negotiated, modified right of return with the bulk of Palestinian refugees being settled in a Palestinian state, financed by generous reparations from both Israel and the international community.

As U.S. citizens, we have a special obligation to see that justice is done in this matter. U.S. financial aid to Israel has been, and continues to be, enormous; and our diplomatic support is the crucial factor allowing Israel’s continued occupation of Arab territories. We strongly recommend that you contact your elected representatives in Washington and urge them to insist that, as a preconditon of continued support, Israel must abide by the consensus of world opinion and withdraw to its 1967 borders, as demanded in numerous UN votes.

American Jews in particular have a special responsibility to acknowledge the Palestinian point of view in order to help move the debate forward. As Chomsky writes in his Peace in the Middle East?, “In the American Jewish community, there is little willingness to face the fact that the Palestinian Arabs have suffered a monstrous historical injustice, whatever one may think of the competing claims. Until this is recognized, discussion of the Middle East crisis cannot even begin.”

In the long run, only by admitting their culpability and making amends can Israelis live with their neighbors in peace. Only then can the centuries-old Jewish tradition of being a people of high moral character be restored. And only in this way can real security, peace and justice come to this ancient land.



Thank you for taking the time to read

“The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict”

Compiled, Edited, and Published by
Jews for Justice in The Middle East
If you watch American news, this is all you've been seeing on CNN and the like for the past few days:



No images on television like this:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/15/world/...ike/index.html
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/ass...al-gallery.jpg

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/ass...al-gallery.jpg

Here's the statistics:
http://www.btselem.org/israeli_civil..._missiles#data
Quote:
Data

B'Tselem’s research indicates that, from June 2004 to 17 July 2012, 20 Israeli civilians (four of them minors) and one foreign national were killed in Israel by Palestinian rocket and mortar fire. In addition, three soldiers were killed, one in Israel and two in the Gaza Strip. Another Israeli civilian and three foreign nationals were killed by Qassam rocket fire at settlements in the Gaza Strip, before they were evacuated. Palestinian rocket fire also killed nine Palestinians (six of them minors).One Israeli civilian (a minor inIsrael) and one soldier (in the Gaza Strip) were killed by an anti-tank missile fire.

A total of 39 persons have been killed by rocket and mortar fire, and two persons have been killed by anti-tank missiles.

According to the Israel Security Agency reports, in 2012 (until 30 June 2012), Palestinian organizations fired 313 rockets and 56 mortar shells from the Gaza Strip into southern Israel, compared with 418 rockets and 258 mortar shells that were fired in all of 2011. For multi-year details (Data source: ISA website):
Indiscriminate firing of rockets at civilians is of course a despicable war crime. But the portrayal of Israel as 100% innocent and justified in American media is "1984" levels of misleading.

http://imeu.net/engine2/uploads/2/is...-ocha-2007.pdf
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1...anconflict.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1...anconflict.jpg

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:42 PM   #2
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fuck Israel

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:48 PM   #3
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Most of you are political knuckledragging morons being easily jedi-mind tricked into avoiding the government and its tryannical momentum.

Its not that I think RP is the second coming of anything, it's just that the old man is the only one talking about the issues that matter. So, of course, the kleptocrats with their levers of control have done everything they can do diminish the man, including fooling you dipshits to focus on the wrong things.

But its within the ranks of the right that most of the work against Paul is being done:



http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-...ke-unless-hit/



This "Iran will not strike first unless provoked" stance is the same position Paul has been touting. He's been touting it as a referendum against the neo-cons within the Republican Party that are frothing at the mouth to start a war with Iran. Everyone from Hannity to Limbaugh to O'Reilly to Micheal Savage have called Paul's foreign policy stance regarding Iran "nuts", yet it's the same position as the chief intelligence officer of Defense.

Not to mention an Army leader recently telling the Rep. candidates to cool the war with Iran rhetoric. Not to mention the CIA saying to Isreal don't strike first without our consent, else you're on your own.

These are all at least reasonable stances coming from the military and CIA, the same as Ron Paul's, yet within the establishment right he is vilified for the same views. Divide and Conquer at its finest...and it doesn't just hurt the Rep. party, it screws all of us.


You think any of those blowhards on the right will credit Paul with the reasoned opinion on Iran? no. The mission is to diminish the man as much as possible so that his views don't hit the mainstream. He's the only real anti-establishment

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:49 PM   #4
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Essentially its a proxy war amongst the major powers that the NWO gang want to spread across the region and into a full fledged war with Iran and Isreal as the centerpieces of it. I never said the President would announce sending in ground troops in some address. In fact I made a clear distinction that they couldn't call them ground troops but would put that stage of the operation under some humanitarian mission banner (to bypass the congressional requirement).

anyway, Qaddafi is still standing and flexing whatever muscle he has. He's not playing the NWO gangster game the way the NWO gangsters want him to (by just leaving or dropping dead preferably).

In one way shape or form, Russia and China are arming Libya while NATO is supporting the rebels (which btw, are full of Al-Queda types that we know support for this cause, but want to get rid of in the broader context of the war on terror (It's not supposed to make sense and it would be better for the NWO agenda if you just glossed over this glaring hypocrisy).

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:51 PM   #5
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How bout we stop with these Religions that keep telling their believers they're the "Chosen Ones"...

Judaism, Catholicism, Islam....Each have their notion of living a certain way in which "God" will reward you in some fashion, like, feel empowered to live in a certain Holy Land near Jerusalem. Or, be one of 144,000 Catholics chosen to live with Jesus in the afterlife, or hang out with 72 virgins after some martydom killings.

It's all complete and utter bullshit but I don't know how the world works itself out from under this mess.

In the meantime...Isreal screwed the pooch on this one...regardless of justification, they handled this wrong (unless of course they wish to start a war).


Calling the people on the boat mercenaries is a bit of a stretch when they didn't have any guns. Any Mercenary worth his salt would be one with a machine gun, not steak knives. So Isreali claims are hollow and potentially false.

This entire operation reeks of the higher ups wanting to foment a war with Iran...it's their last card to play before they (the Bilderburg banking elite) get found out and have their heads put on pitchforks by the commons.

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:52 PM   #6
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Dim view of Isreal? O.K. So why defend Iran regarding Isreal?

Why are you anti-Isreal, as you said? You buying that anti-Zionist rhetoric out there?


It has to do with what side your choosing re: Iran and Isreal. Saying Iran's saber rattling is childish is a nice one liner, you got anything else?





For those of you in love with Iran and it's wonderful theocratic government, watch this and dream your in the podium sucking the man's dick while he acts like a "child".

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:00 PM   #7
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fuck israel

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:18 PM   #8
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The whole country, hm?

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:28 PM   #9
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Evacuate the women and children and nuke the Middle East

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
fuck israel
Netanyahu's approval rating ain't great and all Israelis are not Zionists. But yeah fuck the Israeli government and fuck Hamas and fuck the Egyptian fundamentalists

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:21 PM   #11
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Yo, they shot first

also, God

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:24 PM   #12
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I listen to NPR. That's fair and balanced right

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:48 PM   #13
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obviously I don't hate all Israelis I don't even hate Mormons

I do in general think fuck Israel though, more so than Hamas, because the Israeli government is the obvious aggressor basically raping and pillaging lands that have been in the hands of Palestinians for ages. Israeli is now attacking civilian targets... in terms of tactics, both sides are as bad as each other, but Israel has sown a lot more death and destruction

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:51 PM   #14
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Obviously you don't know what you are talking about, so stfu.

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:10 AM   #15
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lol ok dipshit

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:20 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
obviously I don't hate all Israelis I don't even hate Mormons

I do in general think fuck Israel though, more so than Hamas, because the Israeli government is the obvious aggressor basically raping and pillaging lands that have been in the hands of Palestinians for ages. Israeli is now attacking civilian targets... in terms of tactics, both sides are as bad as each other, but Israel has sown a lot more death and destruction
You should probably replace Hamas with PLO in you post man. Israel are dicks but Hamas are religious fundamentalist terrorists straight up.

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:22 AM   #17
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and pavementune if you're implying that Israel are the "good guys" then you're a moron

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:40 AM   #18
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alright, PLO then. Hamas is just the militant wing of the party, I don't think it's really that easy to separate them... I totally agree that they are assholes, but I feel like it's the same thing as saying damn those fucking violent extremist native americans who attacked the US!!!

like yeah, I think targeting civilians is deplorable coming from any side, but on the flip side of that coin, when you are occupying land that has belonged to someone else for much longer than living memory and turning them out of their homes and shit on the reg what the fuck do you expect

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:46 AM   #19
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I kinda think that the rest of the world should just turn its back on these guys and let them sort it out themselves, like they've been trying to for thousands of years already. There is no solution that anyone else can provide because both sides think that the rest of the world are idiots anyway. So we should just be like ok whatever. See how well you get on without us idiots. And wash our hands of it. Not our fight, not our problem.

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:48 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuralyonW3 View Post
and pavementune if you're implying that Israel are the "good guys" then you're a moron
Don't put words in my mouth.

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:49 AM   #21
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Use your own then.

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:52 AM   #22
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What for? To engage in a discussion with rbg?

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:57 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by vixnix View Post
I kinda think that the rest of the world should just turn its back on these guys and let them sort it out themselves, like they've been trying to for thousands of years already. There is no solution that anyone else can provide because both sides think that the rest of the world are idiots anyway. So we should just be like ok whatever. See how well you get on without us idiots. And wash our hands of it. Not our fight, not our problem.
Including neighbouring countries?

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:58 AM   #24
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logicians have a term for voicing opposition to something but refusing to participate in an argument about it

invincible ignorance

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:04 AM   #25
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Including neighbouring countries?
Well that's up to them. I think Britain has some responsibility to provide somehow for the Palestinian Arabs but the U.S. should withdraw support from Israel.

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:04 AM   #26
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Participating in an argument? Like "fuck Israel"?

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:07 AM   #27
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i think he did the right thing

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:08 AM   #28
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Participating in an argument? Like "fuck Israel"?
Fuck Israel. Hard. Got a problem with that?

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:14 AM   #29
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Israel is a rogue state whose tactics are quasi-terroristic and reminiscent of the behavior of the US CIA in the 50s and 60s. They are an occupying government deeply prejudiced against the Palestinians. If this was an issue of two rival states duking it out, I might be more inclined to say fuck both these dickheads, but as it is Israel does not believe Palestinians have the same rights their own people do. They do not believe the Palestinians have the right of self-determination and self-sovereignty... I mean, last week Netanyahu vowed to disassemble the Palestinian government if they are granted statehood

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:14 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by vixnix View Post
Well that's up to them. I think Britain has some responsibility to provide somehow for the Palestinian Arabs but the U.S. should withdraw support from Israel.
Hamas is apparently using rackets from Iran... and Netanyahu is in the middle of his election campaign (and an insane piece of shit imo)... and I have no idea how realistic it is to hope that Hamas agrees on a truce, since Gaza is in ruins.

 
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