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Old 12-02-2022, 04:39 AM   #151
VoxUpDoc
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Originally Posted by ourruseoffools View Post
adore>mcis>machina>>>>>>>>>>sd/pieces/gish/pregish
I don’t mean for you to take this personally, but this ordering tells me your taste in music is fucking atrocious.

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 04:49 AM   #152
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Well the themes and lyrical content are darker, sadder, and more introspective for a few albums, which doesn't mean it's mature, it just sounds more subdued.

And then it morphs into global commentary, God complexes, and circles right back to defiance and the subverting of people's expectations to bring us to the present. But the actual music is so much more simplistic, and the melodies are weaker. So I don't see how that's growth or maturation. Some of the most complex and interesting instrumentation happens before the incorporation of electronic elements, so in terms of playing the guitar or drums it's a huge slide back. Is playing the guitar or drums so well that those songs became lauded by other guitarists and drummers, and continue to inspire music theorists, something immature and unsophisticated?

So I disagree that the songwriting itself got any better. The lyrics are less angst filled today, but the lyrics of the "classic era" were vague enough that they were always more of an accent to the actual music. And the lyrics today are completely unintelligible and performed with little sense of melody.

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 05:16 AM   #153
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Imagine thinking Adore is the Smashing Pumpkin’s best album.
& thinking Siamese Dream is FOURTH.

Last edited by VoxUpDoc : 12-02-2022 at 06:23 AM.

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 05:31 AM   #154
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Imagine thinking Gish is the worst OG album.

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 10:55 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
in terms of playing the guitar or drums it's a huge slide back. Is playing the guitar or drums so well that those songs became lauded by other guitarists and drummers, and continue to inspire music theorists, something immature and unsophisticated?
this is a stretch i think adore and especially machina have great guitar and drum moments... also just because a song is less guitar/drum driven doesnt mean its worth less

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 11:38 AM   #156
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yet you seem to have no problem implying that when they aren't driven by those, they're worth more, lol.

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 11:39 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by VoxUpDoc View Post
Imagine thinking Adore is the Smashing Pumpkin’s best album.
& thinking Siamese Dream is FOURTH.
I don't even think that's that wild, tbh

it's more the obnoxious amount of greater-than symbols that devolves it into "eyeroll central"

then again people being proud of their stupid opinions around here is certainly nothing new

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 01:26 PM   #158
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If anyone hasn't realized yet that ourruseoffools is a CIA psyop specialist who's fucking with us for fun in his off-hours by playing a character who loves the same Pumpkins music we do but in a way we all find baffling and off-putting, destabilizing both the board and our own brains and leaving us open to other, equally deranged ideologies, I really don't know what to tell you

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 01:30 PM   #159
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I don't even think that's that wild, tbh

it's more the obnoxious amount of greater-than symbols that devolves it into "eyeroll central"

then again people being proud of their stupid opinions around here is certainly nothing new
topleybird is overtaking you, pick up the slack mr joey!

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 01:31 PM   #160
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I give it like two months until he's posting "Mike is twice the drummer Jimmy ever was and we should all be converting our life savings to Iraqi dinars and burying it" and half of you are going "I don't know why but you're starting to make a lot of sense"

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 02:59 PM   #161
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Imagine ranking SD that low yet having a user name taken from the lyrics of Soma. Yeah that makes sense.

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 03:22 PM   #162
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yet you seem to have no problem implying that when they aren't driven by those, they're worth more, lol.
Exactly my point! Either style isn't inherently better, of course, it's a matter of taste. But it seemed insane to me that Corgan would disparage his own past work like that, acting like it wasn't evolved and should be relegated to the category of "touring Pumpkins" for ticket sales from the plebs.

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 03:24 PM   #163
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For Billy to even separate "touring Pumpkins" from...whatever that is going on in the studio, means he knows most people ain't here for the likes of Cyr and ATUM. But just because it's generally dismissed doesn't make it more artful.

Last edited by ilikeplanets : 12-02-2022 at 05:14 PM.

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 03:28 PM   #164
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Fucken Taylor Swift fan bot cutting its teeth on a semi-abandoned board about a semi-abandoned band.

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 03:48 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
Imagine ranking SD that low yet having a user name taken from the lyrics of Soma. Yeah that makes sense.
soma has the james vibe tho it hits different than the rest of the album

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 04:36 PM   #166
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If Soma has the James vibe then so does Gish and pre Gish!

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 05:30 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by TheAlter View Post
Fucken Taylor Swift fan bot cutting its teeth on a semi-abandoned board about a semi-abandoned band.
Hey man we don't have to talk about Taylor Swift on the Pumpkins board.

We can talk about other talented female singer-songwriters like Self Esteem:






 
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Old 12-02-2022, 05:47 PM   #168
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Ruseof, can u tell us a little bit about your pain in love

Can u rate it out of a 10 at its worst?

Can u tell us whether it derives from primarily parental love or romantic love or both?

This may help us properly diagnose and treat your piteous disregard for guitar and drum pumpkins?

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 05:55 PM   #169
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Actually I can see how being a younger fan you'd have a different point of reference if coming to the band for the first time. Us Gen X'ers and Xennials grew up on guitar heavy alt-rock. Younger fans have grown up with pop pap and think Blink 182 was actually a good band (try some Green Day kids). I don't see anything wrong with saying Adore or Machina is your favorite as those are great albums too, but SD and Pisces and certainly not 20 greater thans away from that. That's just overboard.

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 06:01 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
Actually I can see how being a younger fan you'd have a different point of reference if coming to the band for the first time. Us Gen X'ers and Xennials grew up on guitar heavy alt-rock. Younger fans have grown up with pop pap and think Blink 182 was actually a good band (try some Green Day kids). I don't see anything wrong with saying Adore or Machina is your favorite as those are great albums too, but SD and Pisces and certainly not 20 greater thans away from that. That's just overboard.
Yeah it’s not the ranking, rank that shit until you’ve got no ranks left in your bag of ranks

It’s the piteous disregard. We may be able to help tease this out a bit for you, but you’ll need to be doggedly honest with both us, and perhaps most importantly, with your god, and also if u have time, your self

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 06:26 PM   #171
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Imagine Billy seeing that there's 6 pages and he thinks we're still discussing Avalanche

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 06:43 PM   #172
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Brian in his weekly email update: “dude Billy they love Avalanche. There’s a six page discussion on that song alone. Nobody believes you made a 2.5 star album, nobody.

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 06:55 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
Exactly my point! Either style isn't inherently better, of course, it's a matter of taste. But it seemed insane to me that Corgan would disparage his own past work like that, acting like it wasn't evolved and should be relegated to the category of "touring Pumpkins" for ticket sales from the plebs.
I think that to see how sincere Corgan is about that comment (I haven't listened to the podcast myself, so I'm taking everybody's word that he made a comment disparaging his past work), all we have to do is imagine Corgan's response if somebody went up to him and said told him that his pre-Adore output was all jejune.

I think this quote from Pitchfork's review of the TAFH reissue is spot on:

Quote:
If you caught the videos on MTV and chose to take your Pumpkins fanship to the next level by exploring the deep cuts, the bootlegs, the formative guitar tablature sites, and so forth, you realized that Billy Corgan was every bit as excited about the music of Smashing Pumpkins as his audience. In fact, that probably strikes at the root of everything you’ve come to loathe about Corgan as well: he’s the biggest Smashing Pumpkins fan on earth
Far from being detached from it all, the guy comes across as as fascinated with the lore and the legend of his own work as any Netphorian.

He just also happens to say whatever suits him in the moment. To prop up his current work as very sophisticated and beyond the understanding of those who prefer his most popular albums, he put on an air of "oh, I'm way past that." I remember another comment from a few years back when he talked about when people come up to him and tell him "Ava Adore" is a great song, and he feels that he's not that interested in that song anymore and it doesn't really represent him. Now, apparently the album is one of his mature ones. And how many times has he said about a new release, "people tell me this is the best album since Mellon Collie?"

When he was running his social media, the half the time that he wasn't yelling at people for bringing up Siamese Dream and MCIS, he was patting himself on the back for those albums being very successful and expressing pride about the vast musical styles he's covered in that time (to the point where it sounded kinda exaggerated, because even if SP has a wide oeuvre, it's not like they've done everything from jazz to hip-hop to trance).

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 07:07 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
Younger fans have grown up with pop pap and think Blink 182 was actually a good band (try some Green Day kids).
This comment just proves my point that you can only be either a blink-182 or a Green Day fan. To like one means you have to accept certain things about the other.

blink will be my pick, TYVM

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 07:14 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Disco King View Post
I think that to see how sincere Corgan is about that comment (I haven't listened to the podcast myself, so I'm taking everybody's word that he made a comment disparaging his past work), all we have to do is imagine Corgan's response if somebody went up to him and said told him that his pre-Adore output was all jejune.

I think this quote from Pitchfork's review of the TAFH reissue is spot on:



Far from being detached from it all, the guy comes across as as fascinated with the lore and the legend of his own work as any Netphorian.

He just also happens to say whatever suits him in the moment. To prop up his current work as very sophisticated and beyond the understanding of those who prefer his most popular albums, he put on an air of "oh, I'm way past that." I remember another comment from a few years back when he talked about when people come up to him and tell him "Ava Adore" is a great song, and he feels that he's not that interested in that song anymore and it doesn't really represent him. Now, apparently the album is one of his mature ones. And how many times has he said about a new release, "people tell me this is the best album since Mellon Collie?"

When he was running his social media, the half the time that he wasn't yelling at people for bringing up Siamese Dream and MCIS, he was patting himself on the back for those albums being very successful and expressing pride about the vast musical styles he's covered in that time (to the point where it sounded kinda exaggerated, because even if SP has a wide oeuvre, it's not like they've done everything from jazz to hip-hop to trance).
Yeah he talks about his stuff in a strange way. Do other rockers go "oh yeah people are saying it's my best work since [ colour and shape / lonesome crowded / cracked rear view ]? Betrays that deep insecurity about his own strengths as an artist that, combined with a pathological need to be popular again, gives us these weird mutant albums with bits and pieces of what some focus group in big willies head has decided that "SP music" should sound like ?

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 07:22 PM   #176
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Most rock bands stick to the "this is our heaviest album since _________" spiel.

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 07:29 PM   #177
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This comment just proves my point that you can only be either a blink-182 or a Green Day fan. To like one means you have to accept certain things about the other.

blink will be my pick, TYVM
I knew it.

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 07:33 PM   #178
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Most rock bands stick to the "this is our heaviest album since _________" spiel.
I also see something along the lines of "We really returned to our roots on this one" a lot, in music or really any long-running entertainment

I think this "we're going into a room and recording an album together" from Billy/Jimmy is sort of on this same wavelength, some insinuation of things having strayed from the core of what makes something work and a promise to refocus on that core

Like I don't think any of us are under the impression that that's how SD was made, but this "stripped back" idea is still kind of designed to evoke the idea that they're going back to a time when they were better

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 08:00 PM   #179
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I knew it.
sorry, Green Day never made anything even a sliver of as cool as Violence

 
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Old 12-02-2022, 08:00 PM   #180
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real music

 
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