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Old 05-02-2006, 12:35 AM   #211
Mayfuck
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Are you really this stupid?

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:40 AM   #212
Shparticus
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Yep. She is. Exactly that stupid. Stupid to that precise degree.















Good thing you're not reading her posts any more, eh?

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:47 AM   #213
Mayfuck
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Ventolinn: shparticus posted.
Ventolinn: probably because of the intesnese flirting between lie and sleeper
t: lie is such a whore
t: and shparticus is a sissy lala

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 02:30 PM   #214
sleeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lie
When I said you would have to talk to the person first, I was presupposing that all you had to go on previously was factual knowledge of their association (membership) with a religion. We did agree earlier that what we're talking about is a person who is "religious" in a particular kind of way, but then you brought it back to actual religion, insisting on a significance there, which means we're still wavering in terms of from where exactly you are stating your case.

I think the difference between you and me in regards to this is that you're actually a very absolutist person. You have this odd way of supposing that one thing will lead to a similar thing and to another and another, etc., and that the whole scope of these things is actually WRONG. Why "wrong" instead of "unhealthy" or "risky" or "distasteful"? There seems to be this instant butterfly effect going on. It's hard for me to participate in an argument that seems to be happening on a sliding scale. Your question to me seems to be, in summary, "If all these things surrounding and resembling and representing religion exist, if what looks like and smells like and tastes like religion or the other thing I just said, and there's this correlation between that and all these other things that I don't like and you obviously don't either, then isn't there SOMETHING going on there?" Well, yes, of course there is, but it's an uninteresting question and an uninteresting answer. This question is so big it has to take place in smaller increments, in reality, for any definite statement to be made.

The kind of logistic jumps you seem so eager to make require a certain element of "religious" thought, which is something I could rub in your face at every angle if I were a more spiteful person.

But the point is that you do seem to use your own "world view" on a religious mind being wrong in a way that conveniently escapes discussion of religion as a phenomenon in human terms.

The thing you seem to be trying to expose in me (and I'm sure some of this is just you screwing around) is that I'm either a religious nutcase in disguise or that in general I don't like typical "religion" any more than you do. The former I thought I'd already admitted was true, and the latter, well, there's no way for you to know except presupposition, is there? In my book, the fact that I'm simply advocating the absolute (and this is the only absolute I've mentioned myself) importance of judging situations for yourself. You seem more interested in having a purely theoretical argument for which the terms are nearly impossible to decide. In order to have the argument you seem to want to be having, we have to make so many assumptions that the thing itself becomes bloated to the point of no longer resembling any kind of actual reality.

Assumptions I am NOT willing to make (if this discussion is to be representative of the reality of religion at all):

- That a person who is religious is necessarily more closed-minded as a result of their being religious and that if they were not religious they would be more open to the possibilities of rational thought. (I don't think religion and/or faith and rationality are mutually exclusive at all. In human terms, neither one is more REAL or legitimate than the other unless you're talking about literal interpretations of dogmatic scripture.)

- That religious thought and/or feeling is necessarily definable from spiritual feeling or that religion necessarily crushes "true" (squirrels) spirituality when it comes to how it resides in individual people. (I have no proof of this. If you want to talk about what you think about how spirituality works, I would welcome your not wussing out on it finally, as this is actually interesting to me. If you actually think you know something about it, I might even be humbled.)

- That the terms and language in which most people would accept a bland, one-dimensional discussion about religion as a generic entity is sufficient for trying to answer this question of judging or criticizing people in a discussion with me. (If you're not going to stand behind your language and definitions and at least try to say exactly what you mean, I don't even want to talk about this, but again, like last time, tiger, it will be you who is wussing out.)

- That cultural tolerance and religious tolerance aren't, to a certain practical extent, the same thing.

- That you will be able to to get away with making absolutist statements without explaining the logic behind them and using THAT to clinch an argument against religion of all things.



If you're so into judging people by actions, anyway, do you actually think there is a such thing as a "religious action"? If you don't think it's simply an action, then how exactly does it tie back to religion?

And how can you judge that something that exists in someone's mind that you admit yourself you can't understand is WRONG when you admit that you yourself can't understand it?

Bearing these two things in mind, how does anything you've said add up to any more than "the thing I imagine religious people are thinking, which I can't imagine because I personally can't possibly understand it, is something I don't like because I somehow imagine it is wrong"?

I thought I would throw in personal anecdotes to loosen up the phlegmatic substance of your words, or rather because a truly intellectual push to this discussion is hopeless. Since the squirrels. You have to admit it.

Dearie me, I've spent so much time trying to drill below the surface of your brain that I'm going to have to wait until tomorrow to give you fashion advice.

Lee says we don't understand each others' sense of humor. Go figure.

I'm still being nice in my own way. You'll just have to have to take that on faith.


whyd you have to go and shatter the peace? i knew i shouldnt have mentioned how peaceful it was, that was sure to induce your destructive side. im being honest. whyd you go and soil things? youre pretty evil. ive noticed this malevolent streak in you. i hope i dont ever meet you in real life. i can see it now: you smile warmly and shake my hand one second, only to knee me in the groin and claw my eyes out with foam in mouth a second later without provocation. youre a savage at core. is there like a "cool down" cage at home that shparticus has to lock you in for a few hours whenever you get into this state? i can imagine him like having to devise new tricks to get you in the cage, only to always leap out and shut the door apologetically, saying its for your own good, while you rave and climb up the walls screaming how youre going to eat him alive, that hes a motherfucker who youve always hated and whatever. then you throw your own feces at him the next time he walks and burst out cackling like a witch. thats how i see things here



im not very absolutist. fuck, thats one of the main strains to religion that ive been criticizing so much. i can say that im not as relativist as you, but that doesnt mean im positively absolutist. i am to the extent that i do believe in (as in i belive in the existence of) such things as progress, right and wrong, truth, etc. but not at all in a way comparable to someone who truly is religious and not at all to the extent that would merit being described as "very absolutist." and this is where religion comes in. i dont think its just bad, in a subjective sense, i think its objectively wrong. mind you, i wouldnt dare think that i know what is right, but its always much more basic determining what is simply wrong. and thats were, with this absolutist thing, i would differ from a religious person and why it would be unfair to characterize my logic as religious for, if not other reasons, its supposedly absolutist character. i dont make any claims to knowing this truth, to knowing definitively what is right and wrong, like truly religious people do. but knowing what is wrong is another matter, and is something one can be comfortable putting stock into.
i mean i think ive said before that its about determining right or wrong, not good or bad, so i dont know why you constantly appeal to the latter. ive admitted that it sometimes does good, but that that neither excuses it on that subjective level, or is something that makes it "right".

but this all just speaks to one premise of this issue, there are still other things unresolved. lets just clean up a little bit and recap: its right to judge people negatively on grounds of their being religious. necessary in this are the ideas that genuine religious belief is negative (objectively wrong or just subjectively bad, i believe both but the former is what ive been focusing on) and (the more interesting idea) that, ok that belief is lamentable and wrong, but detecting that belief within people is an imperfect science and you cant just depend on usual indicators (the person saying they are "religious"). ill get back to that in a second


honestly i didnt think you were a religious nutcase in disguise, i just thought you had some strange, unwarranted affection for religion. but, let me just seek clarification: thats true? you are religious? you are that religious nutcase? or was that just tongue in cheek? i remember in your religion thread before you saying that youve always had a curiosity for it but i dont remember you saying that you were actually religious.
and the latter is determinable, i dont have to just presuppose. you sort of said as much with some things before, that religion is wonky or whatever. i could go back and comb through some stuff and find it but i dont think youll argue with me on this so its not necessary. or maybe im remembering wrong. i guess we'll find out


Quote:
- That a person who is religious is necessarily more closed-minded as a result of their being religious and that if they were not religious they would be more open to the possibilities of rational thought. (I don't think religion and/or faith and rationality are mutually exclusive at all. In human terms, neither one is more REAL or legitimate than the other unless you're talking about literal interpretations of dogmatic scripture.)
yes thats true, i think they necessarily are something like that. im wary about taking the term close minded, though, i dont think its the best, but its certainly in the right direction. the latter half of that statement i wouldnt agree with because there are a million ways other than religion where people can have their mind closed.
but i stand by that: if youre religious you are necessarily more "close minded" (imperfect, inexact term notwithstanding). how can an entire system of belief that provides answers off the bat to all kinds of troubling questions and is founded in the very antithesis of reason, faith, ever be reconciled with truly boundless, open mindedness and critical thought? how can i at once both believe that, say, the world was created 7000 years ago or, more abstractly, that certain behaviours or beliefs, dictated to be by the bible, are absolutely right or wrong, and at the same time be truly open and willing to accept the truth as it reveals itself? im sorry, lie, but they are mutually exclusive. you cant have answers and at the same time be honestly and seriously looking for them and be willing to accept them in whatever form they might take. you seem to be using the fact that this belief isnt always totally debilitating (there are many scientists who are religious, for instance) as proof that it doesnt exist. this functions in degrees, yes, but the issue was always that it made you more close minded, more unreceptive to truth, not, like a swtich that is on or off, with religiousness equaling "totally close minded" (some certainly are) and non-religiousness meaning "totally enlightened."
and, just to be clear, were talking about a genuinely religious person. as i said before, i think thats the only example person we can use in many things. that question about if you can determine if a person is or is not religious is apart from this present question about close mindedness.

Quote:
- That religious thought and/or feeling is necessarily definable from spiritual feeling or that religion necessarily crushes "true" (squirrels) spirituality when it comes to how it resides in individual people. (I have no proof of this. If you want to talk about what you think about how spirituality works, I would welcome your not wussing out on it finally, as this is actually interesting to me. If you actually think you know something about it, I might even be humbled.)
it is indeed necessarily definable from just "spiritual feeling." on two levels: one, just semantically, religious belief and general spirituality have different meanings, they refer, rightly, to two different things. and, two (more on the level you mean it), religious belief is apart from general non-religious spirituality because, as ive said, its not just a belief or value, its a preordained set of beliefs and values. i mean some general spiritually doesnt connote worship, for instance. i thought, if anything, we agreed that belief (spiritual or otherwise) and religion are two different things. religion is spiritual, sure, but spiritual isnt necessarily religious.
the latter part, about how it necessarily crushes true spirituality, i dotn particularly agree with. it is true in a sense, but i dont think its the way you mean it.

and what are you talking about? did you just skip over that other post i made before this one? becuase i go into spirituality and the leap of faith and everything. i know this new board has this tendency to just shoot you past everything to the last post on a page so im not saying you deliberately ignored it, but it does seem like, going from your comments, that you didnt read it one way or another. if you did read it and are just ignoring it, fine whatever, but that sucks because i thought i brought up some interesting topics and stuff


Quote:
- That the terms and language in which most people would accept a bland, one-dimensional discussion about religion as a generic entity is sufficient for trying to answer this question of judging or criticizing people in a discussion with me. (If you're not going to stand behind your language and definitions and at least try to say exactly what you mean, I don't even want to talk about this, but again, like last time, tiger, it will be you who is wussing out.)
this is nonsense. obviously, for the sake of practical argument, weve referred to, one dimensionally, "religious people" and "religion", but i wouldt say that that doesnt reflect enough of reality. of course, like we talked about, there are varieties of religion and varieties of religious belief, but how varied? ever varied enough to escape the fundamental qualities attached to religion? weve been talking about thngs in broad, generic terms, i agree, but i disagree with the idea that thats at all stopped us from coming at some kind of truth. even in the most bare sense of "religiousness", does someone truly escape that core? i dont think they do. so, while one persons religiousness can be more extreme and worthy of criticism, and anothers totally mild and in the background, and, from that perspective, its wrong to be so indiscriminate with ones treatment of the subject, but i dont accept that the language we are presently using doesnt suffice. i cant even count how many times weve been over this idea that varieties do exist, that its not all generic on all levels, but that theres still, nevertheless, some common elements between them all that can be targeted from criticism. so i dont think one even has to specify beyond the level of "religious" for this discussion to work (if were operating from the premise of a genuinely religious person and not this nominally "religous", yet fundamentally irreligious, person you have in mind)

Quote:
- That cultural tolerance and religious tolerance aren't, to a certain practical extent, the same thing.
i dont get what youre suggesting by this


Quote:
- That you will be able to to get away with making absolutist statements without explaining the logic behind them and using THAT to clinch an argument against religion of all things.
i dont believe ive done this at all. i have some beliefs that you might not have that are serving to underpin some claims, but i dont think that theyve gone on unsubstantiated, at all or at least to the degree youre implying


Quote:
If you're so into judging people by actions, anyway, do you actually think there is a such thing as a "religious action"? If you don't think it's simply an action, then how exactly does it tie back to religion?
i expressed a preference for judging on actions, not a need to. this is actions as opposed to claims by the person. someone telling you they are trustworthy, for instance, and someone demonstrating trustworthiness. this was in response to the idea suggested by you, that you need to hear what they say about it first to truly decide. in many cases, sure, but there are alternate routes to that same end, ones that arent necessarily fraught with the kind of vanity or dishonesty that might creep into personal claims about what someone believes in. but i seem to be giving off the impression now that i dont ever listen to or believe what people say, which isnt at all true. i do, very much. i just dont accept this idea that thats the only (or necessarily the best) way to see or understand what someone believes

Quote:
nd how can you judge that something that exists in someone's mind that you admit yourself you can't understand is WRONG when you admit that you yourself can't understand it?
you really have to resist appealing to this "in someones mind" thing. thats such a smokescreen. this is the kind of stuff corganist does all the time: just make something seem ridiculous by way of dishonest framing of the subject.
youre trying to give the impression that its something inmutably personal and deep and impossible to understand. it is to an extent, but one doesnt have to even fully understand someones belief, they just have to understand enough for their purposes. i might have an incredibly nuanced, personal, idiosyncratic belief that the bible is the word of god, but all youd have to know to be able to criticize it is that i hold the belief that the bible is the word of god and that the other details or contextual points arent of such a nature to reverse that. the only things with this that ive claimed not to understand are the true psychology of a religious person (i think ive got it down pretty well though) and what exactly religion is, whats the exact, perfect definition of it. but with that, as ive said before, the same rule applies: a full understanding isnt even necessary for our purposes, i just have to understand enough (know what it isnt, and know what basic elements definitely do exist within it). newtons law of gravity is incomplete, yet at the same time it functions marvelously for any variety of ends. (to avoid falling the same traps ill clarify: im not saying my beliefs on this are at all as brilliant as newtons on gravity, or whatever perverse interpretation this could support, im just illustrating a general principle. that principle being that "complete" knowledge (insofar as thats possible) is not a requisite and that the extent of knowledge needed is just relative to the ends)

but i have to again stop and take stock. ill address what i know youre getting at, regardless of all the objectionable statements youre making along the way that might cloud that. with this idea that its right to judge people for being religious in mind, it really does seem like were on two different planes here. im saying: a person being religious, if they are "religious", means xyz (where anyone goes with that is another matter). youre saying soemthing like: "its fair to judge people on grounds of their being "religious"? what does it this "religious" even mean? what it does mean to be religious here and now, in pracitce, isnt of a universal character and doesnt necessarily relate to what it means in principle, so you cant honestly act like everyone corresponds to that." something in that vein, correct? i cant help but feel its all semantic. on the level i mean it i dont think you disagree. i mean that were talking about religious people, people that are already religious, as per our understanding of the word, and whose faith isnt really the subject of contention, and thus believe in a general type of things in a general type of way (for expediency, accept that wording). if anything, the question is just flawed because, youd say, it presupposes too much. in reality, youd say, religious people are not so neatly divided from other people (radical communists) and, while they might call themselves religious, arent exactly even religious. i have to say that this angle is as wishful and theoretical as you accuse mine of being. even on that level, my point (that its right to judge them negatively) stands. i dont have to know it all. how far can one be religious, in name or in the fact that they go to church or because they claim to be or by any other measurement, and at the same time be sufficiently distanced from all of the elements of religious belief that i think so little of? i mean, they cant have their cake and eat it too. if somebody is seriously willing to forgo the infinite humility that is beholden upon them to have as humans and have, not the courage, but the weakness and utter stupidity to accept, wholly or a la carte, ready-made, plainly and obviously moronic solutions to the greatest questions of life and accept some of cheap bits of pseudo-wisdom from the ravings of some venal, opportunistic hobos like muhammad or jesus (thats exactly what they both were), to degrees small or large, im going to think less of them. whatever could possibly suffice to indicate the existance of these beliefs or this type of disposition (not exclusively systematic beliefs in the teachings of jesus or whatever, but ones of that exact nature -- aka religion) is enough, and its your mistake to give so much credit to these people to think that they can simultaneously have these type of beliefs and this type of disposition and yet be unscathed by criticism that applies to religion "theoretically"



im going to ignore all those mean things you said at the end.

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 02:33 PM   #215
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and all this squirrel talk is really silly. i dont know if im being trolled or not so im wary to actually address it. what is it with people and this kind of inability to look beyond the most surface appeal of something? like i could be talking about "if you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen" and, i swear, someone would respond saying that kitchens dont even have to be that hot, that you could just open a window. its about the principle behind what is being said. i was trying to tell of my little experience just watching nature. trees, wind, animals (squirrels). theyre just part of that. it has nothing to do specifically with squirrels at all, they just happened to be there then... ok fuck this, i refuse to accept that you guys are being sincere with this thing, im not going to devote another word to it.

eat shit, the lot of you

this is totally unrelated but really interesting i thought
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html...S/blocker.html

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 02:34 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lie
And I don't know what all this crap is about Libertarianism and equating everything in the world I think with Colin on all grounds.

You know, I have never stated that I am a Libertarian BUT I GUESS YOU CAN TELL FROM MY ACTIONS

The thing I've noticed is that you use group labels in arguments in a negative sense, against people, but that becomes as much of a crutch for your points as you accuse them of using those group labels for in the first place.

You seem to always be the one who brings it up. It might do you good to consider that other peoples' so-called religion or life philosophies mean less to them than the importance you place on it, religiously, in your own head.
i was always just being facetious with this libertarian thing, dont take it too seriously

that last point is irrelevant. its what it indicates, what it means. a religious person, say, could not place much importance or have that much conviction in a belief that the bible is the word of god, but what does a belief like that existing at all say about the person? it says something, and it says enough for it to act as the foundation for criticism or a changing of my opinion of the person (to what exactly, circumstance would help dictate)


dont call me by my first name

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 02:50 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RopeyLopey
Sleeper is plotting how to run away with your wife




hey sorry, I haven't noticed there was a new post.


science centre - is that building somewhere in the ravine? Bathurst? i think I was biking once past that building.

Toronto and touristy stuff - I've been to CN Tower once in 2000. That was nice. I was really fascinated with all that theatre people were making up on the tower, as there are those plexiglass slabs in the floor you can walk on - that it's like as if you were standing in the air. There were people who would never ever stand on it, on the other hand there were these kids rolling on the floor all over it and jumping to make it break, everyone taking pictures - it was wild. The elevator guy had a dirty unwashed uniform.
As I was flying back in January, we had a clear skies and the pilot was going twice over Toronto so I tihnk I am satisfied with aerial vistas of Toronto for now I think. Also, if my mother comes for a visit, I will take her up , anyways.

I've been to ROM, but it was rather quick - I think I went there on Wednesday evening when it's free for one hour or something.

what else touristy stuff I am missing? Do they have elephants in the zoo?



you should turn it into a song.
science centre is not near bathurst, although it is near a ravine. its out in the east end, i forget where exactly. its kind of a pain to get to by ttc, if i recall correctly.

youre missing one important tourist thing jan: that amphibious hippo bus thing. thats for all the cool tourists though, you wouldnt fit in.

but seriously, that bus makes me cringe every time i see it, its so incredibly stupid

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 02:57 PM   #218
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haha that bus had an accident a few years back and you saw the cops helping all of these people out of lake ontario and the hippo bus. The Toronto Island can be fun in a cheesy way though. I haven't been to the Science Centre since i was 9 or so- i didn't get the chance to go to the BodyWorks exhibit unfortunately.

In the weekend after July 1, i'd reccoemnd the Toronto Outdoor Art show. Past few years i blew a few hundred bucks there (usually part of it birthday cash) and have never had a more interesting afternoon.

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 03:11 PM   #219
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haha it crashed. karma exists. i would pay to see all these fat-mom tourists in garish clothing being pulled out of lake ontario, crying. oh god that would do it

ive never gone to that art show, i always thought it was for like awful hippy art and the tame, uninteresting variety of folk art. ill check it out this year


do you go to that end of year show at ocad ever? i usually go just to see whats what but the last few years were so underwhelming that i dont think im going to bother this year

edit: nevermind, your profile tells me

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 03:18 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeper
amphibious hippo bus
WHAT!

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 03:19 PM   #221
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i haven't been to an OCAD show in years- maybe because Sheridan and OCAD students often don't get along (i'm afraid people here get the impression OCAD students have less talent and a higher amt. of bullshit artwork). We had an art show this year, next year we have a big one in a gallery in Toronto.

That outdoor art show has some really really interesting (to me) work and experimental stuff. Maybe half the work is reg. boring crafts work but the other half has some excellent student photography. Last year some guy was selling these really weird futuristic type hunting stuff. Like plexi glass guns with wall mounts, plexi glass deer heads and swan heads to stick out of the wall. I bought a small series of handmade books- sort of like a handmade comic series. The year before that i bought a tshirt with a mutated santa on it. Its a lot of fun and not as boring as it seems.

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 03:20 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeviousJ
WHAT!
a bus in the shape of a hippo that takes tourists all over town and then the wheels go inside the boat and it floats around in the lake. Its pretty embaressing.

edit: ok so its not in the shape of a hippo now. but i still wouldn't ride in it

http://www.torontohippotours.com/img/imge09.gif

Last edited by alisonmonster : 05-02-2006 at 03:26 PM.

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 03:22 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeviousJ
WHAT!
http://www.arcata.com/mattfilar/grap...5/MagicBus.jpg

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 03:33 PM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alisonmonster
i haven't been to an OCAD show in years- maybe because Sheridan and OCAD students often don't get along (i'm afraid people here get the impression OCAD students have less talent and a higher amt. of bullshit artwork). We had an art show this year, next year we have a big one in a gallery in Toronto.

That outdoor art show has some really really interesting (to me) work and experimental stuff. Maybe half the work is reg. boring crafts work but the other half has some excellent student photography. Last year some guy was selling these really weird futuristic type hunting stuff. Like plexi glass guns with wall mounts, plexi glass deer heads and swan heads to stick out of the wall. I bought a small series of handmade books- sort of like a handmade comic series. The year before that i bought a tshirt with a mutated santa on it. Its a lot of fun and not as boring as it seems.
id go to the sheridan show if it was here in the city. its a shame all the art of that school is like shunned away to oakville or wherever, where no one can really see it

that sounds like something id like actually, especially the part about the handmade books. im interested in doing something like that myself (not a zine!) and wouldnt mind to see what other people are trying

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 03:33 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alisonmonster
a bus in the shape of a hippo that takes tourists all over town and then the wheels go inside the boat and it floats around in the lake. Its pretty embaressing.

edit: ok so its not in the shape of a hippo now. but i still wouldn't ride in it

http://www.torontohippotours.com/img/imge09.gif
That looks nothing like a hippo, you people got my hopes up

I was hoping for one of these


with people riding in the back

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 03:34 PM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeviousJ
That looks nothing like a hippo, you people got my hopes up

I was hoping for one of these


with people riding in the back
looks more like an octopus am i wrong

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 03:38 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeper
looks more like an octopus am i wrong
Check out the flash banner here, I may actually be scared
http://www.ferrero.it/main.php?w=D6CYIXB1970G3AS4IAFY

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 03:41 PM   #228
alisonmonster
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Originally Posted by sleeper
id go to the sheridan show if it was here in the city. its a shame all the art of that school is like shunned away to oakville or wherever, where no one can really see it

that sounds like something id like actually, especially the part about the handmade books. im interested in doing something like that myself (not a zine!) and wouldnt mind to see what other people are trying
yeah, well at least next year it'll be downtown in a real gallery with actual art directors coming. I have an interview with Oakville Galleries on thursday so then i will get to see firsthand how boring and snobbish the Oakivlle art community is. What were you thinking of doing? The ones i like are sort of like fictional visual scrapbooks- some girl in the textiles studio here made one entirely out of self printed textiles. Yes, and no more zines! If you ever want help with it, let me know what you're doing. I wouldn't mind working on some independant project now that i have a break for awhile.

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 03:43 PM   #229
sleeper
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Originally Posted by DeviousJ
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http://www.ferrero.it/main.php?w=D6CYIXB1970G3AS4IAFY
god they are really running out of ideas here. who the hell wants to eat a hippo, is what i ask you? who? nobody, its fucking sick

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 03:48 PM   #230
DeviousJ
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Originally Posted by sleeper
god they are really running out of ideas here. who the hell wants to eat a hippo, is what i ask you? who? nobody, its fucking sick
The original commercial was inspired, I'm telling you. This family is in a museum looking at some exhibit about the earth and the dad is saying how people used to believe the Earth was flat - then, apropos of nothing, this giant blue hippo blasts through the wall and shouts 'FLAT SNACKS!?', and the parents give it this wan polite smile

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 03:49 PM   #231
RopeyLopey
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I see that bus practially once a week, at least, as the city tour goes down St. George and they tell them about UofT - the bus goes right past my buidling.

I wasn't aware it can swim!

Toronto islands - I haven't been there yet, but I went to those landfills extending way into the lake from the port area in the east, with all those bird-watching guys around - the waterfront and skyscrapers look good from there.

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 04:00 PM   #232
sleeper
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Originally Posted by alisonmonster
yeah, well at least next year it'll be downtown in a real gallery with actual art directors coming. I have an interview with Oakville Galleries on thursday so then i will get to see firsthand how boring and snobbish the Oakivlle art community is. What were you thinking of doing? The ones i like are sort of like fictional visual scrapbooks- some girl in the textiles studio here made one entirely out of self printed textiles. Yes, and no more zines! If you ever want help with it, let me know what you're doing. I wouldn't mind working on some independant project now that i have a break for awhile.

is that oakville gallery thing your first choice or just a choice? i thought you wanted to escape oakville. from what ive seen of oakville its pretty hokey and depressing, i dont know why youd want to stay. an odd mix of mansions and strip malls. maybe i only got a narrow glimpse of what its about, i dont know.

i was thinking about, and have kind of started doing, a collection of large handmade books with some photography idea i have. but it would be on rough, heavy paper and the photographs wouldnt be normally printed, i have some other, antique method staked out. i was thinking about just making a bunch and giving them away for free to random people (how, i havent decided). the free thing is not some principled stand against consumerism or something like that (or whatever you, having been surrounded with ideas of a similar nature for the past few years at school (i assume), might automatically think) its just part of the actual message. the photography idea is kind of hard to explain. its not exceedingly complex or antyhing like that, its just awkward and i can sense some horrible, struggling, 2000 word paragraph coming out of me if i try, so whatever.

what youre describing sounds good though. i like the scrapbook kind of idea. not necessarily scrapbook as in a random collection of thoughts kind of sense, but scrapbook as in a crafted little keepsake kind of thing. something that doesnt have an explicitly stated purpose but is still focused. although i have increasingly strong urges to make it go beyond just photographs. i have another similar idea that, if my musical ideas realize themselves, ill definitely do. but i cant tell you about that! its a secret, a really good idea that the prying eyes of the internet cant know about! i think so at least

thanks for the offer of help though, thats so friendly and endearing, i appreciate it. i cant look into the future, but i might take you up on that actually. ill get back to you on this

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 04:11 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeviousJ
The original commercial was inspired, I'm telling you. This family is in a museum looking at some exhibit about the earth and the dad is saying how people used to believe the Earth was flat - then, apropos of nothing, this giant blue hippo blasts through the wall and shouts 'FLAT SNACKS!?', and the parents give it this wan polite smile
did it just end there abruptly? with the hippo busting through a wall and screaming "flat snacks" (wtf), the little smile, and then the commercial ending? if so that sounds awesome. i love the effect abrupt ends have, they can totally change the meaning of things. that whole absurdist thing sounds good too, thats how id do a commercial for some idiotic snack like this. thats probably the only way anyone could. how could you approach it seriously without just having the total stupidity of the snack be highlighted? you have to make fun of it before your audience gets a chance to. after that it goes from pathetic and ridiculous to quaint and comically irreverent

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 04:25 PM   #234
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hey jan, you pig, check out this one

http://i4.ebayimg.com/02/i/07/04/b8/9a_1.JPG
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MakeTrack=true

as much as you hate me for liking this stuff, i dare you to tell me this watch isnt magnificent

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 04:34 PM   #235
sleeper
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ive also got my eye on these

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...4/55d3a75d.jpg
http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/68...NW52_BRN_1.jpg

neither compare to that one above though, that ones mine

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 04:35 PM   #236
DeviousJ
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Originally Posted by sleeper
did it just end there abruptly? with the hippo busting through a wall and screaming "flat snacks" (wtf), the little smile, and then the commercial ending? if so that sounds awesome. i love the effect abrupt ends have, they can totally change the meaning of things. that whole absurdist thing sounds good too, thats how id do a commercial for some idiotic snack like this. thats probably the only way anyone could. how could you approach it seriously without just having the total stupidity of the snack be highlighted? you have to make fun of it before your audience gets a chance to. after that it goes from pathetic and ridiculous to quaint and comically irreverent
No, it carried on after that and the hippo distributed his topographically diverse hippo snacks, and then there was the usual CG of the ingredients coming together and so on. I wrote it that way to maximise enjoyment, and because that's how I choose to remember it anyway. That initial first part was awesome, and they even changed 'FLAT SNACKS!?' later on. Idiots

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 05:05 PM   #237
RopeyLopey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeper
hey jan, you pig, check out this one

http://i4.ebayimg.com/02/i/07/04/b8/9a_1.JPG
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MakeTrack=true

as much as you hate me for liking this stuff, i dare you to tell me this watch isnt magnificent
LOOK AT ME PEOPLE HOW COOL I AM - I HAVE WATCHES WITH CHARACTERS I KNOW SHIT ABOUT SO I CAN'T REALLY TELL YOU WHAT DATUM IS TODAY. BUT HEY, I AM THAT COOL!


as i pointed out, I am really suspicious about that made in USSR tag.

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 11:20 PM   #238
sleeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RopeyLopey
LOOK AT ME PEOPLE HOW COOL I AM - I HAVE WATCHES WITH CHARACTERS I KNOW SHIT ABOUT SO I CAN'T REALLY TELL YOU WHAT DATUM IS TODAY. BUT HEY, I AM THAT COOL!


as i pointed out, I am really suspicious about that made in USSR tag.
but, really, i wonder what youd be saying if, instead of some quirky, curious russian watch that i was showing you, i was showing you some equally quirky, curious watch from, say, thailand. something really odd and exotic. i think youd be singing a different tune

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 11:26 PM   #239
RopeyLopey
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Originally Posted by sleeper
but, really, i wonder what youd be saying if, instead of some quirky, curious russian watch that i was showing you, i was showing you some equally quirky, curious watch from, say, thailand. something really odd and exotic. i think youd be singing a different tune
I am curious what watch you will get in the end.

 
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Old 05-02-2006, 11:28 PM   #240
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look at those: made in ontario, canada:
http://www.schreckwholesale.com/images/product_576.jpg

these look good to me.

 
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