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Old 05-13-2021, 01:25 PM   #31
GreenDogGlynis
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Yeah but SP is superior in every aspect to Foo Fighters, and I think we go a bit overboard on this Dave Grohl being a great musician stuff. Dude can play instruments but he can't even write anything near a good acoustic song, while Billy had written like one hundred good ones by 1993. Plus Dave's treatment of Goldsmith and Stahl was way worse than anything Billy did.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 01:49 PM   #32
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Plus Dave's treatment of Goldsmith and Stahl was way worse than anything Billy did.
Nah, I think his treatment was about the same. Do you really think it was Mike's call to replace all his drums on Oceania with quantized samples? Do you think Mike was really not waiting by the phone for the next tour?

To become a great touring band you have to cut out the amateurs. It sucks personality wise, but they weren't great players. You can see who it payed off for in the end. Billy should have never teamed up with Mike, Nicole, Lisa, Jeff, Ginger at his and Jimmy's level. Stuff like that is what separates Dave from Billy. Plus hiring real artists and professionals. Do you think Dave would ever work with a Linda Strawberry?

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 02:02 PM   #33
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The saddest part about Billy and the band to me is that he is a musical genius but cant get out of his own way. His execution is all wrong and he makes really awkwardly stupid decisions. He desperately needs a real producer and a soundboard (be it a band or confidant and not whoever he contentiously references as SP world) to bounce ideas off of.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 02:14 PM   #34
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Nah, I think his treatment was about the same. Do you really think it was Mike's call to replace all his drums on Oceania with quantized samples? Do you think Mike was really not waiting by the phone for the next tour?

To become a great touring band you have to cut out the amateurs. It sucks personality wise, but they weren't great players. You can see who it payed off for in the end. Billy should have never teamed up with Mike, Nicole, Lisa, Jeff, Ginger at his and Jimmy's level. Stuff like that is what separates Dave from Billy. Plus hiring real artists and professionals. Do you think Dave would ever work with a Linda Strawberry?
Haha I laughed at that last sentence. You probably know a lot more about this stuff than I do regarding the quality of these musicians. I was just trying to say while Billy gets the reputation of being cutthroat and careerist, and probably deserves some of that criticism, Dave is probably both of these things more so than Billy, and the constant good guy bro front he puts on makes it seem more sinister to me, whereas Billy wears it all on his sleeve. I think the only problem with cutting Goldsmith and Stahl out was that it took away any hope of Foo Fighters actually being a band. They're a traveling entertainment act pure and simple, which everyone is but they don't have that something extra you can connect to. They're not a group of people who found something special playing in a garage, and it shows in the high proficiency but complete lack of identity. They have way more in common with the Backstreet Boys than they do with The Rolling Stones.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 02:41 PM   #35
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The saddest part about Billy and the band to me is that he is a musical genius but cant get out of his own way. His execution is all wrong and he makes really awkwardly stupid decisions. He desperately needs a real producer and a soundboard (be it a band or confidant and not whoever he contentiously references as SP world) to bounce ideas off of.
I'm probably in the minority but I haven't had much of a problem with the musical output. I've been frustrated with it at points but there's enough good songs there in my opinion. Cyr seemed well thought through and fully realized even though it may not be everyone's favorite, but it did seem like the band was actually working hard on an album again and I thought it was pretty good. I think Billy's main issues when it comes to alienating people are his stage costumes and the occasional bizarre interview he gives where he talks about pretending to be other people or a caricature or whatever. All of that rings hollow because while Kurt and Eddy were made out to be these larger than life characters, Billy was always Billy.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 02:59 PM   #36
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While MCIS is a diamond release, it only sold 100,000 more albums than SD from 1995 to 2012. It's around 5 mil copies (it literally only counts as a diamond album based on a technicality).

Technically SP stands at 14.2 million album sales (adjusted for the bloated sales of MCIS). The Foo's are over 30+ million despite not capturing that 91-93 wave/spike in album sales.

30 top ten radio singles vs SP's 14. A similar organization would be the Grammy's - Foo's have 11 wins and 27 nominations vs SP's 2 wins, 11 nominations.

I'm not trying to say I like the Foo's over SP, but it shouldn't be any surprise that they're in the HoF. I mean Dave hangs out with Macca and has side projects with Zeppelin royalty.

Billy really did it to himself and truly, he could have been as big as Dave had he not let his ego get the best of him.
It's not a technicality it's a double album that used to be sold at a higher price than single discs records (but less than typical double albums, smart guys at Virgin).


Yeah FF have accomplished a lot more as far as charts are concerned but in the past 15 years it's been more about Dave Grohl's personal brand of the middle aged guy you'd have a beer with than the bland AM rock radio they put out.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 03:03 PM   #37
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Do you think Dave would ever work with a Linda Strawberry?

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 03:09 PM   #38
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It's not even remotely surprising or outrageous that the Foos are getting inducted. SP will probably never get inducted. No one gives a shit. The rock and roll hall of fame is a corporate museum that tries to institutionalize an art form that at its core was originally about pissing people off and making them uncomfortable because boys and girls could shake their butts together to it. The very idea of a hall of fame for people who screech on electric instruments and yell into the microphone while the crowd jumps around like apes is ridiculous.

Of course the most sterilized consumer-friendly bands are gonna get in, and then once in awhile they'll add someone niche who happens to have enough of a cult following because of the internet to have name recognition to keep up the perceived legitimacy of the institution.

SP is not niche enough, or popular enough, to probably ever get in. Who the fuck cares. Who even are the smashing pumpkins.

no once cares.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 03:11 PM   #39
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Also Beck should be in R&R HOF. Insane range in this music styles. Has done whatever he wants for the past 25 years. Can rap and sing.

The man does it all.
Too indie for R&R HOF. Indie in a 90s sense. The 500k copies "underground" records.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 03:15 PM   #40
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Beck will get in before SP for sure. Seriously no one gives a flying fuck about smashing pumpkins. To the public they are like an interesting asterisk at the end of the sentence of 90s alternative rock.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 03:18 PM   #41
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Beck will get in before SP for sure. Seriously no one gives a flying fuck about smashing pumpkins. To the public they are like an interesting asterisk at the end of the sentence of 90s alternative rock.
That's for sure. If SP disbanded for good in 2000 they would probably make it.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 03:19 PM   #42
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When you are inevitably inducted into the Rock Hall, who do you want to induct you?

“I don’t envision it happening. so…”

Comedian John Mulaney thinks SP’s absence is proof the R&R Hall of Fame is anti-Chicago.

“It is anti-a-lot-of-things. Particularly metal.”

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 03:27 PM   #43
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Beck will get in before SP for sure. Seriously no one gives a flying fuck about smashing pumpkins. To the public they are like an interesting asterisk at the end of the sentence of 90s alternative rock.
I don't know, every time the band releases new material Billy still gets interviewed by a lot of mainstream outlets. Plenty of sites reviewed Cyr. I wouldn't say the band is forgotten about. Billy is just Billy at the end of the end of the day and not always the best at making friends.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 03:44 PM   #44
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I don't know, every time the band releases new material Billy still gets interviewed by a lot of mainstream outlets. Plenty of sites reviewed Cyr. I wouldn't say the band is forgotten about. Billy is just Billy at the end of the end of the day and not always the best at making friends.
This is true, I'm being hyperbolic when I say no one cares. But the people who care are largely casual fans ("you sound like a casual fan") of their 90s music. They have achieved the status where all the major outlets will give them at least neutral reviews each time Billy puts something new out because they are established understatesmen of the alt rock universe... but the only people listening to the new music are super super fans who are able to turn a blind eye to the decrease in quality and Billy's constant antisocial behavior. At the end of the day, they aren't much more than the J Giles band of their generation in popular percepton.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 04:36 PM   #45
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Nah, I think his treatment was about the same. Do you really think it was Mike's call to replace all his drums on Oceania with quantized samples? Do you think Mike was really not waiting by the phone for the next tour?

To become a great touring band you have to cut out the amateurs. It sucks personality wise, but they weren't great players. You can see who it payed off for in the end. Billy should have never teamed up with Mike, Nicole, Lisa, Jeff, Ginger at his and Jimmy's level. Stuff like that is what separates Dave from Billy. Plus hiring real artists and professionals. Do you think Dave would ever work with a Linda Strawberry?
Sorry but William Goldsmith was not an amateur. Great drummer and his drumming in SDRE was great. The FF sounded the best live from 1995-1996 when Goldsmith was in the band. The live performances with him smoke anything they did with Hawkins. Dave couldn’t that Goldsmith’s drumming spanked his ass so he erased his tracks. To me that’s far worse than anything Billy did. It’s no coincidence that the FF went steadily downhill after Hawkins joined. Dude is chodefactor to the max.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 04:37 PM   #46
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Dave basically gets a free pass for shit that people rip Billy apart for. I talked to Stephen Brodsky from Cave In one time, they had toured with FF in the early 2000’s. He said behind the scenes Dave is not the cool bro he portrays to everyone.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 04:52 PM   #47
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Sorry but William Goldsmith was not an amateur. Great drummer and his drumming in SDRE was great. The FF sounded the best live from 1995-1996 when Goldsmith was in the band. The live performances with him smoke anything they did with Hawkins. Dave couldn’t that Goldsmith’s drumming spanked his ass so he erased his tracks. To me that’s far worse than anything Billy did. It’s no coincidence that the FF went steadily downhill after Hawkins joined. Dude is chodefactor to the max.
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Dave basically gets a free pass for shit that people rip Billy apart for. I talked to Stephen Brodsky from Cave In one time, they had toured with FF in the early 2000’s. He said behind the scenes Dave is not the cool bro he portrays to everyone.
I'd take everything former members and much smaller bands say with a grain of salt. Goldsmith quit because he couldn't stand being just a live drummer for the band. You're in a band where the frontman is the drummer of Nirvana, just consider yourself lucky to be in there.
Grohl still played half the tracks on There is nothing left to lose. Difference is Taylor Hawkins was just humble enough to deal with it.

That said, maybe it's time to accept that people that get to such high levels of fame for so long have to be self-centered primadonnas. And they have to be it in a Dave Grohl way, not in a WPC way.

Last edited by TheAlter : 05-13-2021 at 04:59 PM.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 05:09 PM   #48
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I still don't get how FF got so big. How the heck did they fill up Wembley and get everyone to sing along to Best of You? Nothing wrong with it but still...

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 05:17 PM   #49
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I still don't get how FF got so big. How the heck did they fill up Wembley and get everyone to sing along to Best of You? Nothing wrong with it but still...
They’re the ideal rock band. Dave’s got it all: he’s a rock legend (let’s not forget Nirvana started it all), he’s the laid back but cool guy 30/40 somethings look up to and the band, they all work really hard. I’ve met two of them in the street once and while visibly tired and jetlagged they were the nicest guys ever. If you do it all the time it pays off.

Edit: plus, they have no contenders.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 05:34 PM   #50
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They’re the ideal rock band. Dave’s got it all: he’s a rock legend (let’s not forget Nirvana started it all), he’s the laid back but cool guy 30/40 somethings look up to and the band, they all work really hard. I’ve met two of them in the street once and while visibly tired and jetlagged they were the nicest guys ever. If you do it all the time it pays off.

Edit: plus, they have no contenders.
Well you can't knock the fact that pleasing the crowd, being nice, and working hard can carry you a long way.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 06:32 PM   #51
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Sp dont deserve hall of fame. They had 4 good years ...and that was it...

Havent played a role since 2001, neither on the radio, nor anywhere else in the music biz...



Jesus, those sad machines freaks who still thing bolly is the messiah... cyr proved the world that they still rock the charts, stadiums, radios and tv shows...even reviewers are making jokes about crogan

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 06:34 PM   #52
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SP definitely deserves to be in, their music is simply too good and too unique to not be. Plus they were front and center in the culture when they made their classic albums.

Last edited by GreenDogGlynis : 05-13-2021 at 07:19 PM.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 06:54 PM   #53
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They wrote iconic music, had a truly rebellious nature (what rock music is built on), worked very hard on their craft and they inspired generations of people. To me they most assuredly deserve the recognition. Billy has just soured people minds since they fell from grace.

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 07:45 PM   #54
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vs




why are we even debating this?
everyone loves Dave - he's just a nice guy and even if it's a little cheesy - that unrelenting positivity is inspiring

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 08:11 PM   #55
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Haha except it should be the kiss guy vs the Angie guy

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 09:09 PM   #56
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tldr; Billy's legacy is tarnished, Grohl's isn't

 
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Old 05-13-2021, 10:38 PM   #57
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surely since dave is putting effort into being a super nice guy to fans, he is trying to be that guy....? of course he's going to be more chill backstage with a dude from another band on the bill. of course immediately post-Nirvana he felt insecure and shitty about being a frontman but already having drum parts written but wanting the band to be the best it could be around LP2

FF and SP are different units with different goals. they both tour arenas

 
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Old 05-14-2021, 02:26 AM   #58
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vs




why are we even debating this?
everyone loves Dave - he's just a nice guy and even if it's a little cheesy - that unrelenting positivity is inspiring
The complete lack of regard for the people he was talking to...he’s standing there babbling his nonsense shit and all of a sudden he’s gone lmfao

 
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Old 05-14-2021, 04:27 AM   #59
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90s Foo Fighters =/= 2021 Foo Fighters. SP basically died in 2000. FF did not. You all are living in the pass

 
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Old 05-14-2021, 05:30 AM   #60
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My living in the pass forum?

 
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