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Old 07-14-2022, 03:18 PM   #91
houseofglass11
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Agree. M2 has always sounded like unfinished recordings and demos.

 
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Old 07-14-2022, 08:28 PM   #92
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everything on MII sounds better than literally everything billy has done since

 
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Old 07-14-2022, 09:19 PM   #93
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To try to get my POV across - because I'm in the camp that absolutely does see M2 as unfinished, somewhere post-demo, but not fully polished- when I look at M2 and I say it could sound better I absolutely don't mean it as an insult. It's my 2nd favorite SP work. The songs are amazing. But there are parts that absolutely do need adjustment in terms of levels, polish, balancing. Try v1 drives me insane because that synth feels like it's way too forward in the mix, that "weeoweeoo" absolutely should be in the back adding texture. The entire blown out opening horn section of Real Love, Whyte Spyder as a whole...like, I can totally understand why people would love it for this lo-fi sound the whole thing's got, but SP always thrived on meticulous, polished production and I don't get how anyone could look at those songs and think they were meant to sound that way or think they couldn't sound better. From day 1 listening to it back in the day I always thought to myself "jeez, imagine if this stuff had had more time.".
i respect your input and your thought process but this armchair analysis always pisses me off.

all these dorks listening to M2 and pretending they can make it better. so lame.

this is why rock music is so neutered these days. too many dorks over-analyzing it.

 
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Old 07-14-2022, 10:37 PM   #94
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Ok yeah let’s just be basic and take everything at face value and not analyze anything because slunken doesn’t like it

 
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Old 07-14-2022, 10:56 PM   #95
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what would you have done differently?

 
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Old 07-14-2022, 10:57 PM   #96
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song by song

make it better

go

 
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Old 07-14-2022, 10:58 PM   #97
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track one, slow dawn improvements:

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 03:08 AM   #98
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i respect your input and your thought process but this armchair analysis always pisses me off.

all these dorks listening to M2 and pretending they can make it better. so lame.

this is why rock music is so neutered these days. too many dorks over-analyzing it.
It isn't armchair analysis to observe the presence of stuff like tape hiss, a studio standard click track intro for timing purposes, idle amps, a phaser just sitting there, studio banter with people talking about traveling, not to mention instruments in mixes not even being EQ'd or compressed which I'm pretty damn sure is the case on a lot of these things. That just requires a set of ears.

The question is whether you think all of that's there/not there as deliberate artistic choice or not.

I'm graduating my audio recording tech course in about 2 weeks by the way. Between terms, I took a shot at doing a light noise reduction pass to remove tape hiss from Try V1, Vanity and MII Speed Kills; I can put those up somewhere if anyone wants to hear 'em.

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 05:31 AM   #99
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i like all that shit

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 07:01 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
To try to get my POV across - because I'm in the camp that absolutely does see M2 as unfinished, somewhere post-demo, but not fully polished- when I look at M2 and I say it could sound better I absolutely don't mean it as an insult. It's my 2nd favorite SP work. The songs are amazing. But there are parts that absolutely do need adjustment in terms of levels, polish, balancing. Try v1 drives me insane because that synth feels like it's way too forward in the mix, that "weeoweeoo" absolutely should be in the back adding texture. The entire blown out opening horn section of Real Love, Whyte Spyder as a whole...like, I can totally understand why people would love it for this lo-fi sound the whole thing's got, but SP always thrived on meticulous, polished production and I don't get how anyone could look at those songs and think they were meant to sound that way or think they couldn't sound better. From day 1 listening to it back in the day I always thought to myself "jeez, imagine if this stuff had had more time.".
I don't mean to be a dick with this, but it's kind of like saying "boy imagine if the painter had more time to work on that" about an impressionist painting. It's just missing the point and expecting it to be something that it is decidedly not. Just saying

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 07:10 AM   #101
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M2 happened a certain way and those songs are 100% complete. It's like fossils in amber. The only thing I'd really love out of this reissue is better MASTERING from the original tapes.

I believe the production "issues" fans have been bitching about since 2000 are really probably only tape degradation from non-high end transfers and final mastering. It's a pure mixtape vibe. 4 last random cassettes with absolutely wicked material that you toss your friend after the party is all over.

It would be hella cool to listen to fresh, more delicate professional grade masters. Not out of some roses hope to make the material better, but to have slightly more delicious top end clarity than these dark old mysterious tapes everyone's been listening to for 20 years.

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 07:14 AM   #102
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Of course, what we'll probably get is a Bob Ludwig brickwalled reimagined Machina: The Ultimate Showdown Volume 1 release, with all new Jeff Schroeder guitar parts added to the mix and a Mike Byrne re-recording of This Time

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 08:31 AM   #103
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Who in gods name cares about tge hiss and shit. M2 is perfect the way it is...love that lo_fi vibe...fuck brickwalled shit....

Not bitching, instead loving m2 the way it is.
Do not need a 4 th alt version of if there is god, saturnine or lmgtwty.... Fuck the reissues...

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 09:31 AM   #104
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The unfinished aspect of M2 is what makes the tracks so special I think. They all have this hazy, gloomy, retrospective feel to them…it’s like a funeral that takes place out in a foggy field on a cold morning.

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 09:38 AM   #105
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In My Body is fucking spectacularly liminal too

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 11:12 AM   #106
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M2 always just sounded like the "pirate" rock album that it was, to me. which in some cases could have failed spectacularly but since by that point they had enough know-how & studio equipment to make it work, yeah it sounds rough around the edges in comparison to the releases immediately preceding it (even M1) but wouldn't you just kill for that shit now?

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 11:16 AM   #107
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Granted, having it be a finalized record in the sense that M1 was - still loud, still messy, but maybe with Moulder/Flood involved - would at least be interesting to hear. worst case scenario it'd just end up like that Monster (R.E.M.) remix that came out a few years ago which also, basically, was interesting (mainly in the sense of getting to hear some of the subleties that may have been all but inaudible before) but not particularly superior the original at all. some albums were meant to sound "wrong"

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 11:19 AM   #108
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Goldberg, tell ya i would.... But again we will get those bland stock synths, girly blackground singis and jeffreys metal licks topped by bollys stand out vibrato dropped consonant _wtf lyrics

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 11:21 AM   #109
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I tell ya, when I made that post I was tunnel visioned - was NOT thinking about the girly blackground singis & I apologize for that, truly

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 11:29 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
I don't mean to be a dick with this, but it's kind of like saying "boy imagine if the painter had more time to work on that" about an impressionist painting. It's just missing the point and expecting it to be something that it is decidedly not. Just saying.

M2 happened a certain way and those songs are 100% complete. It's like fossils in amber. The only thing I'd really love out of this reissue is better MASTERING from the original tapes.

I believe the production "issues" fans have been bitching about since 2000 are really probably only tape degradation from non-high end transfers and final mastering. It's a pure mixtape vibe. 4 last random cassettes with absolutely wicked material that you toss your friend after the party is all over.

It would be hella cool to listen to fresh, more delicate professional grade masters. Not out of some roses hope to make the material better, but to have slightly more delicious top end clarity than these dark old mysterious tapes everyone's been listening to for 20 years.
"Fossils in amber" is where this disagreement stems from, I think. I get the point that "these are complete because they happened the way they did" but I completely disagree with it because this wasn't the artist's original intent - if it's a work of art, it's The Entombment by Michelangelo. Sure, you can appreciate it for what it is but there are undeniably pieces still missing. It's not about expecting it to be something it's not, it's about expecting it to sound closer to what it was supposed to be.

Easy example, I don't fucking LIKE the shit that Lucas did with all the old Star Wars films. But they're his to do with as he pleases - hypothetical scenario, say that none of the blasters had laser effects - if that were all Georgie boy wanted to go back to do, I wouldn't fault him for it. But I understand the fear that Billy will Lucas the whole thing.

Also for comparison's sake... Nobody would say MCIS is incomplete in any way shape or form. I never thought any of the SP remasters were necessary, but I do like how the 2012 MCIS sounds a bit brighter and clearer. It isn't even that I think it's necessarily been "improved", but it does sound better to my ears. It was a nice surprise. With MII there''s absolutely a shit ton of stuff still sitting there that shouldn't be, even if everything here were intended for a professional release. Hearing studio talk is fun and all but I'm not gonna miss any of that shit when it's excised (though yeah, I do like "I'm jungle drummed out, man' as a memorable finish to Lucky 13)

Like I said, it's fine to enjoy a lo-fi / mixtape/ amateur / rough - whatever the fuck anyone wants to call it vibe. It's a neat, intimate look at studio workings in place.

But this is the band that got off on having like 70 fucking guitar tracks in Ruby and made it work. SP were always about top notch production. And I'm not even asking them to go back and give these songs "the MI treatment" to bring them to that maybe overproduced level - I just want them to sound clean and balanced at the bare minimum, which not all of them are. Like, if MI is a benchmark of "100% as Billy intended", I'd say MII is by and large like 65- 70% - all I'm asking is we get to like 80%.

Last edited by Shadaloo : 07-15-2022 at 12:25 PM.

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 05:12 PM   #111
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Sadaloo...i beg your pardon...
Sp and top notch production???
M2 sounds better than anything released after it.... At least it sounds like a real band, some people playing together.... That is what i'd hope for m3/mcis2..... But sadly this might never happen again.....

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 05:14 PM   #112
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Shadaloo Sry...i get your point..... Didnt want to offend u

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 07:39 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
M2 happened a certain way and those songs are 100% complete. It's like fossils in amber. The only thing I'd really love out of this reissue is better MASTERING from the original tapes.

I believe the production "issues" fans have been bitching about since 2000 are really probably only tape degradation from non-high end transfers and final mastering. It's a pure mixtape vibe. 4 last random cassettes with absolutely wicked material that you toss your friend after the party is all over.

It would be hella cool to listen to fresh, more delicate professional grade masters. Not out of some roses hope to make the material better, but to have slightly more delicious top end clarity than these dark old mysterious tapes everyone's been listening to for 20 years.
beautifully put

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 07:41 PM   #114
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I
I'm graduating my audio recording tech course in about 2 weeks by the way. Between terms, I took a shot at doing a light noise reduction pass to remove tape hiss from Try V1, Vanity and MII Speed Kills; I can put those up somewhere if anyone wants to hear 'em.
god fucking dammit those poor kids pissing their parents money away

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 07:43 PM   #115
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I don't mean to be a dick with this, but it's kind of like saying "boy imagine if the painter had more time to work on that" about an impressionist painting. It's just missing the point and expecting it to be something that it is decidedly not. Just saying
"i love this painting but he really should have laid off the blue paint IMO maybe some more yellow or green IMO"

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 07:45 PM   #116
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*starts talking about star wars*
opinion completely disregarded

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 07:47 PM   #117
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…it’s like a funeral that takes place out in a foggy field on a cold morning.
i really love this. rep sent.

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 10:06 PM   #118
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god fucking dammit those poor kids pissing their parents money away
Yeah, nice, I paid for it all myself out of savings, motivated to by a passion for music, a desire to learn the craft and an urge do something with my life that actually interested me.

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further 'board personality' horseshit motivated by a likely absence of any personality
Can't entertain an opposing viewpoint, can't enter a discussion in good faith, can't respond with anything but snark and offhand dismissal.

You're a fucking asshole and a walking example of why this place has a garbage reputation.

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 10:18 PM   #119
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Yeah, nice, I paid for it all myself out of savings, motivated to by a passion for music, a desire to learn the craft and an urge do something with my life that actually interested me.



Can't entertain an opposing viewpoint, can't enter a discussion in good faith, can't respond with anything but snark and offhand dismissal.

You're a fucking asshole and a walking example of why this place has a garbage reputation.
you need to edit your post because you make it look like the 2nd quote is attributed to me which it is not

also i wasn't talking about you pissing your money away in the first post, but your students

i already want all of my money back after one single interaction

 
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Old 07-15-2022, 10:24 PM   #120
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you seem really chill and even-tempered and meant for teaching tho for sure

 
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