When did Corgan start making literally unpleasant noise, vocally?

[Ram27]

i love saffron but i cannot stand some of the vocal lines

like the wheeedle of a reeeem

that makes my throat hurt to hear. awful

[Gooch]

And You’re surprised by this??!?!

[ilikeplanets]

Every era has at least a few awful vocals

[ilikeplanets]

I think Gish might be the best, vocally. There are stronger performances on other albums, but Gish seems the most consistent without any really bad deliveries.

[Morlock]

I'd say with American Gothic, with Zeitgeist being somewhat a transition album. When his voice was unpleasant before that, it was buried in the mix (Machina) or fit the mood (MCIS). The vocal production of today's Pumpkins reminds me most of the more quiet tracks on Adore, but on those Billy really toned down the nasality.

Last Pumpkins album with well-predocued vocals was Monuments, as inessential as the music was. If you listen closely, you'll notice that Billy's singing on a track like "One and All" is not that dfferent from today. But you can crank that shit up with no problem.

[Squish Squash]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

Every era has at least a few awful vocals

When was his voice not great in SP1? You can find subpar live performances but on the records? Never.

[great poster]

2007. Which is weird when you listen to live performances from 2005 his voice still sounded like it did on Zwan, he still sounded young. 2007 for some reason flipped a switch where he started singing very croaky and like an old man. In just 2 years he started dropping consonants and sounding like an old man and it only got worse as time went on, the shitty ass production on the albums doesn’t help either.

[Morlock]

Old men still have consonants(*), Billy is just being weird and/or thinks it's proper technique.

(*) Source: I am a language scientist.

[paranoid]

Originally Posted by Squish Squash

When was his voice not great in SP1? You can find subpar live performances but on the records? Never.

Wound. Crying tree. Blue skies. He goes too hard on with every light.

I don’t know.. listen to sp with friends that don’t really like sp and it becomes apparent quickly how awful his voice has been most of his career. It’s no secret.

Like muzzle. I played that for a friend and his biggest criticism was how “put on” and phony his voice sounded. And I love it, but I can hear it.

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by paranoid

Like muzzle. I played that for a friend and his biggest criticism was how “put on” and phony his voice sounded. And I love it, but I can hear it.

Well, your friend is a complete and total idiot and i can see why you two get along so well.

Muzzle is reason, perfection, and Billy's vocal delivery in it is flawless.

The defense rests, Your Honor.

[Joey Goldberg]

With Every Light is beautiful, & perfectly sung for how it was approached on the album, feck off m8!

also, I get why people go after Wound, but again, it was simply Bill mk 1 (or 2?) turned up to 11, not a "bad performance" or what have you

[ilikeplanets]

I'm not saying there was a bad performance every era, but that there were unpleasant vocal noises every era, with Gish being an exception.

Anyone that doesn't like SP usually cites the singing as the problem. You can certainly understand how Zero and even 1979 are extremely rough and nasally.

[dustrocck]

The singing was fine in the Gish-Pisces era.

It started to become grating on MCIS but the songs and melodies were fantastic and he was young enough he could still belt it out.

Then a slow progression downwards into a state where I haven't even bothered listening to Atum Acts 2 & 3 because I just don't think I can stand listening to him anymore.

[ourruseoffools]

My guess is that he was blowing out his voice a lot on the MCIS tour and began taking lessons after jimmys dismissal… you can hear his live vocals sound really good in 97 and adore has some of his most pleasant performance

before zeitgeist I reckon he, in his elitist manner, took more formal voice lessons designed for choral singers and applied those techniques to his rock singing… choral singers are told to sing on the vowel and consonants are meant to be shortened or sometimes dropped depending on the phrasing

I don’t believe he has taken lessons in years because his ability seems to drop off more and more every year, whereas I think rivers cuomo has consistently taken them to retain his youthful sound

[paranoid]

Plenty of the adore era performances are pretty terrible. Same with machina.

Actually I have a couple Siamese dream era boots that are nearly unlistenable.

[Ram27]

i've literally never heard an unlistenable show from 93-00

[Squish Squash]

Originally Posted by paranoid

Wound. Crying tree. Blue skies. He goes too hard on with every light.

I don’t know.. listen to sp with friends that don’t really like sp and it becomes apparent quickly how awful his voice has been most of his career. It’s no secret.

Like muzzle. I played that for a friend and his biggest criticism was how “put on” and phony his voice sounded. And I love it, but I can hear it.

His voice is an acquired taste but I’ve always loved his old style. Conventional singers are boring.

[phang]

Really it was during The Marked, voice has always gone downhill ever since

[LaBelle]

I find it hilarious that Billy started from a super limited range with some screaming here and there and is completely unable to replicate almost any of it live nowadays.
While many singers who are way more accomplished technically can still pull off a convincing performance even years after the fact.

To actually answer the thread, for me it was Machina that Billy started using his voice to make the most annoying sounds and it only grew worse from there.

Also to be fair, I still think that for the current music the bigger issue is the terribad melodies than his actual vocal delivery.

[paranoid]

Originally Posted by LaBelle

I find it hilarious that Billy started from a super limited range with some screaming here and there and is completely unable to replicate almost any of it live nowadays.
While many singers who are way more accomplished technically can still pull off a convincing performance even years after the fact.

To actually answer the thread, for me it was Machina that Billy started using his voice to make the most annoying sounds and it only grew worse from there.

Also to be fair, I still think that for the current music the bigger issue is the terribad melodies than his actual vocal delivery.

The whole cramming a thousand words into a single phrase is not helping him at all.

[ilikeplanets]

Yeah, he's saying 1000 words per minute and you can't understand any of them

[MyKeyZ]

Originally Posted by paranoid

The whole cramming a thousand words into a single phrase is not helping him at all.

Stop being so negative all the time.

[Insight_Scoop]

Originally Posted by paranoid

Plenty of the adore era performances are pretty terrible. Same with machina.

Actually I have a couple Siamese dream era boots that are nearly unlistenable.

Lol

[houseofglass11]

For the most part I don't have any issue with any of the original SP (1988-2000 RIP) run as far as his studio vocals go. I can see how his voice might be an acquired taste for laymen as it's a somewhat unorthodox and at times effeminate and nasally voice compared to the testosterone fueled machismo of, say, Chris Cornell or Scott Weiland. But then Perry Farrell has always had a weird af voice and he's never gotten half as much shit as Corgan for it.

I read or heard an interview at some point (I think with Zane Lowe when the MCIS box came out) where Billy mentioned that he deliberately played up the nasal thing on songs like BWBW and Zero as a kind of caricature of an egomaniacal rock star. You can definitely hear that. Same with Everlasting Gaze. But it works on the heavy songs. On the other hand something like Muzzle just sounds very emotive and powerful to me. I don't think he was trying to put anything on there. Let's never speak an ill word about that glorious song ever again pls. Lol

[houseofglass11]

And since Muzzle was mentioned I have to post this, such a killer raw version of the song and Jim's drums sound much bigger than on the final version:

[paranoid]

Originally Posted by MyKeyZ

Stop being so negative all the time.

Stop being so annoying all the time.

[ilikeplanets]

Pretty sure he can't be serious since you're probably the most enthusiastic actual Netphorian regarding Atum

[slunken]

how hard he strains on Wound is what makes it so appealing what the heck

[Funbags]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

And since Muzzle was mentioned I have to post this, such a killer raw version of the song and Jim's drums sound much bigger than on the final version:

Holy shit! Jimmy's drums sound amazing. Goes to show how much he really makes a track. Great song, but the drums take it to the next level.

Shame he can't do that anymore.

[paranoid]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

Pretty sure he can't be serious since you're probably the most enthusiastic actual Netphorian regarding Atum

Sad thing is I’m pretty luke warm on it.