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Old 09-21-2022, 11:57 AM   #271
Spaceboy88
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Originally Posted by ourruseoffools View Post
Annie dog is badass
I remember when people on this board used to shit all over Annie Dog when Adore was released!

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 11:58 AM   #272
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I mean why didn’t Darcy stop him from releasing perfect? That was when the blandness really started to settle in. Then it was a single? Talk about boring/goes nowhere/sounds generic for the time.
Agree, I've never been especially impressed with Perfect. The video made it worse. The vocals are the best part.

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 11:59 AM   #273
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lol, ok ms "maybe they were only good 'cause of the producers!!!"

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 12:00 PM   #274
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MCIS was widely regarded as a bit of a bait & switch at the time. People bought it expecting more Zero or BWBW and got "some Elton John shit". It's one of those records that absolutely everyone bought but relatively few loved.

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 12:01 PM   #275
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MCIS had meaningful lyrics, melodies.. was incredibly produced with incredible variety..

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 12:10 PM   #276
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MCIS was widely regarded as a bit of a bait & switch at the time. People bought it expecting more Zero or BWBW and got "some Elton John shit". It's one of those records that absolutely everyone bought but relatively few loved.
What in the name of all that is holy and good are you going on about?

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 12:11 PM   #277
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MCIS was widely regarded as a bit of a bait & switch at the time. People bought it expecting more Zero or BWBW and got "some Elton John shit". It's one of those records that absolutely everyone bought but relatively few loved.
Can always count on you for atrocious takes on MCIS

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 12:12 PM   #278
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Agree, I've never been especially impressed with Perfect. The video made it worse. The vocals are the best part.
Noooo. It's a great song with some of the least cringy lyrics he's ever written.

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 12:12 PM   #279
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Ok I listened. It’s really disappointing. The palm riff sounds like some early throw away White Zombie track

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 12:14 PM   #280
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Ok I listened. It’s really disappointing. The palm riff sounds like some early throw away White Zombie track
White Zombie slapped how dare you

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 12:15 PM   #281
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I wish Billy still wrote lyrics like in Cupid and Where Boys Fear

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 12:30 PM   #282
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Can always count on you for atrocious takes on MCIS
It's objectively true. You can love it and that's fine but the world didn't/doesn't. It's not even in print.

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 12:41 PM   #283
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If you think it’s themes are only “unique to teenagers” I imagine you’re neurotypical. As someone who’s autistic with severe OCD and depression it still resonates with me heavily at 30.
I was probably unclear; I don't think it's impossible to relate to the album if you're an adult, neurotypical or otherwise. I just think the "cheesiness" The 'Noid (how ironic! The 'Noid talking about cheesiness! Like the guy from the Domino's Pizza ads? Right? Is this thing on?) is talking about strikes me more as cheese or somewhat immature compared to how I felt at the time.

I suppose I don't know how to completely articulate it. An Ode to No One, after a teen breakup, felt like an appropriate amount of rage. I can't imagine feeling that angry about someone I love(d) now (not saying people my age don't or shouldn't, but it's not who I am any more), but I still love the song and can kind of go, like, "Ah, yeah, I remember what it was like to feel that way."

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 12:44 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by incubator View Post
It's objectively true. You can love it and that's fine but the world didn't/doesn't. It's not even in print.
It was certified diamond, is their most popular album and is critically acclaimed. You’re full of shit

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 12:44 PM   #285
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well yeah there's always been bozos who didn't "get it" even when they were good

u think i'm going to base my continued patronage of & all things b0lly based on said bozos?
Yes

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 12:58 PM   #286
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Wtf why does everyone hate "Annie Dog?"

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 01:04 PM   #287
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Wtf why does everyone hate "Annie Dog?"
Cuz they r hyperFixated on fuzz guitars instead of badass songwriting with swag,,, SAD!

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 01:11 PM   #288
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I’m not saying I like the new shit, but this myth that they weren’t cheesy before is just that.. a myth.

Play about half of Mellon collie for one of your non fan friends and you’ll hear this — “this is cheesy garbage.”

I’ve had that happen several times. And said people have good taste.
"Cheesy" and "garbage" are two different things. Something can be cheesy and good.

People love Sam Raimi's films while acknowledging that they are full of cheese. They like his camp horror in the Evil Dead franchise, and his 2000s Spider-Man films are going to be some of the only superhero films anybody remembers well after we've forgotten about the hundreds of generic movies since then.

The Smiths are cheesy. But people who didn't grow up with their music are still wearing their t-shirts.

The problem with the new SP material isn't that it's cheesy. It's that it just doesn't sound good.

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 01:16 PM   #289
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Cuz they r hyperFixated on fuzz guitars instead of badass songwriting with swag,,, SAD!
I dunno, I love how tired and defeated it sounds. The croaky voice, the economical keys. It adds to the emotion of the song.

I feel like some fans are less about the moody, atmospheric, weird parts of the band, and their favourite SP stuff is the traditional rock anthems and ballads. When you have a band that got it's sound by having one foot in arena rock/classic rock/traditional metal and psych, and the other foot in art rock/college radio/post punk/shoegaze, they're going to have diverse fans who like them for different reasons and disagree on which songs are good and which suck.

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 01:18 PM   #290
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Like, imagine not liking GatGC in it's epic, moody, goth-psych majesty, but liking LMGtWtY, which is a pretty boring pop ballad.

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 01:18 PM   #291
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Once in a while should have been on adore instead of Annie dog. It’s just a better song. If Darcy was so great at convincing billy what is right vid wrong why did that happen? Why?!?

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 01:19 PM   #292
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Nah, Annie-Dog is better.

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 01:22 PM   #293
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You don't need "Once in a While" when you've already got "The Tale of Dusty and Pistol Pete" and "Once Upon a Time," accoustic songs that are much more musically interesting.

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 01:26 PM   #294
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MCIS was widely regarded as a bit of a bait & switch at the time. People bought it expecting more Zero or BWBW and got "some Elton John shit". It's one of those records that absolutely everyone bought but relatively few loved.
Remember when Corgan made the claim about people shitting on MCIS for having "some Elton John shit," and we got curious, wondering "who the fuck said that about MCIS," and we traced the claim to Corgan himself, when he claimed back in the '90s that the new album would have "some Elton John shit?"

Corgan's murderer was Corgan.

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 01:28 PM   #295
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lol, ok ms "maybe they were only good 'cause of the producers!!!"
That's not some long standing theory I've had....I just can't figure out how they could go from what they were to what they are.

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 01:29 PM   #296
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I understand only having a finite ability to write amazing songs, but it's just so damn drastic

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 01:29 PM   #297
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Once in a while should have been on adore instead of Annie dog. It’s just a better song. If Darcy was so great at convincing billy what is right vid wrong why did that happen? Why?!?
Probably because Annie-Dog isn’t a bad song. I didn’t say D’Arcy’s musical opinions were flawless either, but she clearly had a positive influence on Corgan musically.

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 01:31 PM   #298
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The only measurable difference is too much freedom in production. But maybe the decline isn't due to a measurable factor. Forgive me for being science minded.

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 01:32 PM   #299
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Also, even if Wretzky had good taste that served to steer Corgan in the correct direction, it's not like she was present 24/7 and involved at every step of recording and track listing. I'm sure many decisions were made without her, especially as she began to check out more toward the end of the band's run. Doesn't really make sense to go, "if Wretzky's taste positively influenced the band's output, how come THIS song was released?"

 
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Old 09-21-2022, 01:40 PM   #300
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The only measurable difference is too much freedom in production. But maybe the decline isn't due to a measurable factor. Forgive me for being science minded.
Yeah, I find it silly when people try to isolate some singular causal factor for Corgan sucking today.

"Perhaps the necessary and sufficient condition for Corgan to make good music is working with Chamberlin. But wait, Chamberlin was absent for Adore and present for Mary Star of the Sea and Shiny, so that hypothesis is refuted. Perhaps Iha is the key ingredient? But alas, Iha is back in the band, and the music still sucks. Clearly, it must be Wretzky!"

Like, sometimes people have it, and sometimes people lose it. I'm sure working with certain other people positively influences the output… so long as they give enough of a fuck to even make suggestions, and Corgan actually considers their opinions. If not, they'll just collect the cheque and avoid the headache of getting Corgan pissed at them, or Corgan'll just kick them out of the band, like he did Byrne (who probably at one point said, "I dunno, why don't we do something weirder and more interesting?")

There are probably a host of reasons Corgan doesn't make music like he used to, not a single overwhelming cause.

 
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