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Old 10-05-2022, 01:02 AM   #211
run2pee
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Oh, come on.

Getting over the usual easy "I could do better / garageband" non-argument, this thing isn't aimless by a long shot. After the weird Mortal Kombat gong at the beginning (which, yeah, why is that there?), you get a synth motif which leads into that spooky piano section and builds upwards, carried by Jimbo's drums and a moody rhythm guitar line - which I'm guessing is James - up to the lead guitar crescendo before the whole thing winds down.

And yeah, I'm not gonna lie, Corgan's obviously written better leads, but it does the job.

And that's somehow the worst thing SP's ever done? After Widow? After Run2Me? After whatever Anti-Hero, Seek And You Shall Destroy, and Tyger Tyger were? No offense if you like those, but they're my candidates for absolute dreckpile.

The "Is this the worst thing Billy's ever written" question goes through my mind once an album these days too, sure, but every time, Widow beats it, no contest.

This thing? I actually think this might be the best album opener they've had since Zeitgeist - hell, maybe Machina.
But at least with widow there’s a thrilling out-of-body sensation where the mind reels with “who this widow” “how she gonna wake his mind” “what the fuck is this eardrum-piercing keyboard sound there that i heard that someone left in there and why did they do that”

In other words, while it is vile, it is at least interesting. In the same way that odd insects or rotting possums might be interesting, u might pause in your day to regard these

This stuff on the other hand is exhaustingly empty. Boring and lifeless to the extreme. It’s the first time ive not even wanted to come back and be like, wait what the heck is there a song under that nauseating sound there?

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 01:05 AM   #212
houseofglass11
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brothabigcock4u wrote:
“Funnily people now jump on shiny vol3 cause it oughta be psychedelic....lol.....what if the voice is front, what if it is full with cheesy synths and garageband drums, what if it is full of katie choirs and gospel girls??? What do you do then.”


Dude it’s full of all that already and we’ve only heard four or five songs.

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 01:37 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by run2pee View Post
This stuff on the other hand is exhaustingly empty. Boring and lifeless to the extreme. It’s the first time ive not even wanted to come back and be like, wait what the heck is there a song under that nauseating sound there?
it’s the sound of a complete lack of honesty, which sounds like nothing in particular

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 02:46 AM   #214
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In the third episode, Billy says this about the album's length:

"The way that we look at it inside the band - with a 33 song record - if you can't find ten songs you like, we're not doing our job. So at the very least, people can find an album within those 33 songs that they like. ... But again, if you can't find ten Smashing Pumpkins songs that you like within these songs, then you're probably not a Smashing Pumpkins fan."

Somewhat self-depreciating, but I kinda get that and subscribe to that, generally.

I think Cyr is exactly that for me. You could lop off half of Cyr and have a decent little album that is like 40 minutes long, which is EXACTLY how long it should have been. I still haven't been able to get thru that whole album, and that says a lot, because, hell, I post here, right? I'm a fan. But I'm not sad I didn't get Cyr on vinyl.

I think Atum will be the same - so maybe that's what we're working with at this point? I think we should all be able to find the proverbial "Wrath" that's buried in there.

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 03:16 AM   #215
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That's the issue with these gigantic exhausting albums isn't it

I don't WANT to curate some playlist, I want a decent listening experience from start to finish where every track is the best it could possibly be, full of clever little flourishes, rather than farted out so quickly every song seems painfully underwritten

Neophyte one is a prime example, just repeating the same phrase and motif endlessly does not make for a great listening experience

Last edited by New Art Rioter : 10-05-2022 at 04:21 AM.

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 04:54 AM   #216
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House if glass: you think that the extra 10 songs will sound like the songs from cyr/ atum( so far)?

I think people now jump on shiny 3 because they hope it could be totally different.

Well, i accepted the fact that bolly prefers 30 songs and releasr them all, and it isnt important if they rock or not...it is all the same...well...sustainable...

Sadly thats the same with atum. There will be some heavier songs, some embracers and neophytes and typical cyrs like butterfly suite...

My hope for shoegaze or guitar interplay like on soma, mayonaise or or gaze is dead....
It is all produced the same...well ok..i gotta accept

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 04:59 AM   #217
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Though I had previously stated that I wanted to avoid listening to the podcasts, and preferred to wait for the first album to come out, I've decided to listen to each track on the podcasts just once. Just so I can keep up with what's going on. Then when the album comes out I can hear them together as they flow, as well as in better quality.

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 05:06 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raskolnikov View Post

"The way that we look at it inside the band - with a 33 song record - if you can't find ten songs you like, we're not doing our job. So at the very least, people can find an album within those 33 songs that they like. ... But again, if you can't find ten Smashing Pumpkins songs that you like within these songs, then you're probably not a Smashing Pumpkins fan."
= "I can't be bothered of going through the grind of making a great album cuz I just do it for the money anyway, so I'm just gonna dump this gigantic load of crap on you so that YOU can do the work of squeezing out a decent sequence of songs from all this stuff, and if you think none of it is good you're not even a real fan anyway"

-Billy "Successful Competitive Business Model" Corgan

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 05:08 AM   #219
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Interesting to hear BC's claiming he wrote the drum intro for I Am One. Everything he says on this podcast has a whiff of BS.

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 05:11 AM   #220
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Interesting to hear BC's claiming he wrote the drum intro for I Am One. Everything he says on this podcast has a whiff of BS.
That doesn't strike me as particularly unusual. He had the guitar riff so probably had an idea in his head of what the drums would go like.

His "writing" it was probably saying to Jimmy "the drums should go dugga-dugga-dugga" etc and Jimmy just did it.

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 06:39 AM   #221
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I do remember reading or hearing an interview at some point where he mentioned Jimmy didn’t want to play the drum beat to I Am One when he tried to get him to do it. So it seems plausible that it was Bill’s idea.

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 07:33 AM   #222
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The conversation with Yungblud where Billy talks about the difference between being "fake" then and now is nuts. WTF is he talking about. None of that has any bearing on popularity or record sales.

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 07:41 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by eviltimeban View Post
...his "writing" it was probably saying to Jimmy "the drums should go dugga-dugga-dugga" etc and Jimmy just did it.
That is litterally what he said he did in the podcast 😂

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 09:26 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
= "I can't be bothered of going through the grind of making a great album cuz I just do it for the money anyway, so I'm just gonna dump this gigantic load of crap on you so that YOU can do the work of squeezing out a decent sequence of songs from all this stuff, and if you think none of it is good you're not even a real fan anyway"
I think it's maybe a fair expectation that most folks are not going to sit and listen to this end-to-end very frequently; isn't it the case that more and more people are listening to mixes, playlists, etc. rather than whole albums?* So I don't think it's too weird for him to be like "Hey, hopefully you'll like a bunch of these enough to throw them in your 'beats to study to' playlist or whatever."

*Honestly I have no idea, but with the rise of Spotify and Tidal and such, I'm guessing this is the case?

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 10:31 AM   #225
eviltimeban
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So Billy is encouraging listeners to take random songs, songs that exist in a particular order to form a narrative on which this whole album is hanging on, and put them together in any order we please?

Doesn't that negate the whole point of the narrative?

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 11:08 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by eviltimeban View Post
So Billy is encouraging listeners to take random songs, songs that exist in a particular order to form a narrative on which this whole album is hanging on, and put them together in any order we please?

Doesn't that negate the whole point of the narrative?
I think he's gradually becoming aware of how people stream music these days

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 11:09 AM   #227
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I would almost say, and obviously this is an ignorant guess on my part, that the sequence is for him and for posterity as an artistic achievement, and to a lesser extent for the hardcore fans; and the "hope you like 10 songs" bit is just an expectation for how more casual fans, or new fans, will engage with it

To me this is a little like when he did Monuments and was like "kids these days only want songs that are three minutes or less," only it's perhaps a more accurate understanding of people's listening habits

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 02:02 PM   #228
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you can still get a story even if the the sequence jumps around.


has no one seen pulp fiction?


we live in an ear when 15 second clips is the most popular form of media...

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 02:18 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by topleybird View Post
I think it's maybe a fair expectation that most folks are not going to sit and listen to this end-to-end very frequently; isn't it the case that more and more people are listening to mixes, playlists, etc. rather than whole albums?
If this theory is correct, would it not have been preferable to, perhaps, make something that is NOT a 33-song Rock Opera concept album?

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 02:22 PM   #230
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Why not make a 55 song quadruple album of songs made out of 1 riff each so the kids can perhaps make their own mini EP out of it of what they like?

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 02:23 PM   #231
teh b0lly!!1
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Hot idea: Name the next character Luster

(pronounced Lester)

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 02:38 PM   #232
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Hot idea: Name the next character Luster

(pronounced Lester)
LOL'ed when i'm supposed to be working...

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 02:50 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
If this theory is correct, would it not have been preferable to, perhaps, make something that is NOT a 33-song Rock Opera concept album?
There are certainly other ways of getting attention from press and fans alike, but I can't think of a more useful one at the moment than announcing you're making a "sequel" to your biggest-selling album (and another one), the sound and success of which you've not replicated in almost 30 years

I mean, he has written several things that are not a 33-song Rock Opera concept album and they haven't gotten him very far, so I can't blame him for trying to go bigger and see if that works any better

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 03:18 PM   #234
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If it fails (e.g. bad reviews, doesn't break into the Top 100 / Top 40), what does he do then? There was always the idea of the "psychedelic" record to fall back on. But this is now being released as part of Atum (even though it hasn't been recorded yet).

Would Atum then be the final SP album?

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 04:19 PM   #235
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If it fails (e.g. bad reviews, doesn't break into the Top 100 / Top 40), what does he do then?

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 04:33 PM   #236
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It’s not going to be a big hit at all. We already know that. I’d be surprised if every new SP release since MTaE sells more than 5,000-10,000 copies.

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 05:05 PM   #237
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It’s not going to be a big hit at all. We already know that. I’d be surprised if every new SP release since MTaE sells more than 5,000-10,000 copies.
Do any albums sell more than that these days? It's all about streaming numbers now.

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 05:51 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by eviltimeban View Post
There was always the idea of the "psychedelic" record to fall back on. But this is now being released as part of Atum (even though it hasn't been recorded yet).
it was recorded directly after cyr, before atum... he mentions in the recent podcast that its done

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 06:27 PM   #239
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But at least with widow there’s a thrilling out-of-body sensation where the mind reels with “who this widow” “how she gonna wake his mind” “what the fuck is this eardrum-piercing keyboard sound there that i heard that someone left in there and why did they do that”

In other words, while it is vile, it is at least interesting. In the same way that odd insects or rotting possums might be interesting, u might pause in your day to regard these

This stuff on the other hand is exhaustingly empty. Boring and lifeless to the extreme. It’s the first time ive not even wanted to come back and be like, wait what the heck is there a song under that nauseating sound there?
Don't know what to tell you. Atum theme didn't grab me much on the first listen, sure, but I came back the next day, gave it another spin, and started finding stuff about it I really enjoyed. It works as an opener to a cheesy spooky sci-fi flick, that's why I enjoy it.

There's nothing good about Widow. Nothing. Not even as a morbid joke. Bad synths, repetitive tripe lyrics, and Bill's worst, most grating vocal performance on record.

 
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Old 10-05-2022, 06:40 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by eviltimeban View Post
If it fails (e.g. bad reviews, doesn't break into the Top 100 / Top 40), what does he do then? There was always the idea of the "psychedelic" record to fall back on. But this is now being released as part of Atum (even though it hasn't been recorded yet).

Would Atum then be the final SP album?
then they all go into the studio and make a straight-up rock record, which jimmy and BC have both confirmed.

The band is too big of a brand to just stop if their new record isn't a hit. If this were true, the band would be long over by now.

The Cure hasn't had a hit record in over 20 years. Every album since Wish has failed by chart standards of a band with their reputation.

 
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