Americans, where Will you flee to when Trump takes over?

[MyOneAndOnly]

Americans who were born in the States have no idea how fucking hard it can be to legally move to another country.

[Machinist]

As it should be. We see who you vote for.

[Toast]

Originally Posted by MyOneAndOnly

Americans who were born in the States have no idea how fucking hard it can be to legally move to another country.

It must be nice to live in a country that actually enforces its borders and just doesn't let any riffraff inside. I wouldn't know.

Anyway, none of you are going anywhere.

[Squish Squash]

I'm very broke so I would have to depend on my family to help me move.

[Squish Squash]

Originally Posted by Toast

It must be nice to live in a country that actually enforces its borders and just doesn't let any riffraff inside. I wouldn't know.

Anyway, none of you are going anywhere.

Literally every country has borders. The idea that the US doesn't enforce the border is delusional, you just hate brown people.

[Elphenor]

anything short of literally gunning down refugees will be seen as "not securing the border"

we've seen that sudden large influxes of refugees can be difficult for any country to process however no Western country does what the RNC wants on immigration

they should maybe look towards China for advice on how to handle the "riff raff"

[MyOneAndOnly]

Project 2025 includes plans for Concentration Camps. It won't just be undocumented people they put in the camps.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by Toast

Anyway, none of you are going anywhere.

We have a plan to leave if we have to, whether it's only to get health care, or to avoid being arrested.

For those with marketable skills or money there will likely be enough warning to get out before the pogrom begins.

[MyOneAndOnly]

within my immediate queer friend group I have 6 friends who have taken steps to leave (like actually buying property or applying for citizenship in another country) and/or get their children out if they need to. Also, I have two friends that have left both Florida and Texas to protect their queer kids from the State governments and schools. There's an informal network of people trying to help families with queer kids in those states to get jobs and move to places with more protections for their kids.

[Squish Squash]

I'm not leaving if my parents don't but yeah queer people should leave if they can. Minorities and people on the left in general tbh. I mean to be honest even without Trump people should live elsewhere than this shithole, but the direction Republicans are moving in is pretty scary. But they've been waiting for this moment for decades, started with Nixon.

[redbreegull]

I'm not going anywhere, I'll fight til the end

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by Squish Squash

I'm not leaving if my parents don't but yeah queer people should leave if they can. Minorities and people on the left in general tbh. I mean to be honest even without Trump people should live elsewhere than this shithole, but the direction Republicans are moving in is pretty scary. But they've been waiting for this moment for decades, started with Nixon.

the options for places to go are not exactly great. There are a limited number of countries where our marriage would be recognized. My wife was born in Vietnam, but that doesn't help me because the Viet Communist party officially outlaws homosexuality, because it's a Western capitalist moral failing. So if we go there I'd have to leave and reenter the country every few months. And our marriage would mean nothing inside the country.

The handful of countries with strong LGBT rights laws are also the most expensive and most difficult to get a residency visa or immigrate.

One fear we have is the incoming administration cancelling passports of people who've changed gender markers on passports. If that happens there will be no legal way to leave the country without duel citizenship and a passport from another country. Same thing if they cancelled passports while out of the country... it would leave me stranded.

[Squish Squash]

I think the Nordic countries would probably be the best place for you to go?

[Fonzie]

Black metal and Abba? Oh yeah.

[ourruseoffools]

I’m gonna keep boymoding

[run2pee]

Originally Posted by MyOneAndOnly

the options for places to go are not exactly great. There are a limited number of countries where our marriage would be recognized. My wife was born in Vietnam, but that doesn't help me because the Viet Communist party officially outlaws homosexuality, because it's a Western capitalist moral failing. So if we go there I'd have to leave and reenter the country every few months. And our marriage would mean nothing inside the country.

The handful of countries with strong LGBT rights laws are also the most expensive and most difficult to get a residency visa or immigrate.

One fear we have is the incoming administration cancelling passports of people who've changed gender markers on passports. If that happens there will be no legal way to leave the country without duel citizenship and a passport from another country. Same thing if they cancelled passports while out of the country... it would leave me stranded.

Cancel passports? I get that we’re all fucking terrified but where are we getting this idea that passports will be canceled

[ninsp]

Originally Posted by run2pee

Cancel passports? I get that we’re all fucking terrified but where are we getting this idea that passports will be canceled

She doesn’t have one, she’s too busy getting her news from Reddit.

[ovary]

i wish i had an immediate queer friend group.

[ourruseoffools]

Originally Posted by ovary

i wish i had an immediate queer friend group.

Aweee be careful what you wish for

[ovary]

all i've got is a zoomer coworker that wears a cat tail

[MyOneAndOnly]

Trump has stated publicly that he would outlaw gender Marker changes at the federal level. He's said it over and over again. It's part of Project 2025. That means reversing gender markers on Federal IDs for anyone who has previously changed them. IE cancelling passports and requiring they be reapplied for under the "gender assigned at birth".The president can do that via State Dept on his own. It doesn't require new law.

I am friends with the person in the Biden administration who wrote the current regulations that the governs how homeland security treats gender markers and gender non conforming people. She's been very clear that all of the current administration's guidance on gender markers changes can be reversed or changed under any new president. She should know.

some folks seem to think this is hilarious and silly. They're either not paying attention to what these fascists are promising to do, or they just don't care who gets hurt by it

[ninsp]

Originally Posted by MyOneAndOnly

Trump has stated publicly that he would outlaw gender parker changes at the federal level. He's said it over and over again. It's part of Project 2025. That means reversing gender markers on Federal IDs for anyone who has previously changed them. IE cancelling passports and requiring they be reapplied for under the "gender assigned at birth".The president can do that via State Dept on his own. It doesn't require new law.

I am friends with the person in the Biden administration who wrote the current regulations that the governs how homeland security treats gender markers and gender non conforming people. She's been very clear that all of the current administration's guidance on gender markers changes can be reversed or changed under any new president. She should know.

some folks seem to think this is hilarious and silly. They're either not paying attention to what these fascists are promising to do, or they just don't care who gets hurt by it

Depends on what documents you have changed. That is why I have been recommending every trans person get their birth certificate changed in an original capacity if possible. So be safe and aware, but also still. Go touch grass.

[ninsp]

Many states, such as Michigan, change your birth certificate to reflect it as if it was always the changed gender--not a revision, as an original--and destroy any remnants of it as it was before. Do some more research.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by ninsp

Many states, such as Michigan, change your birth certificate to reflect it as if it was always the changed gender--not a revision, as an original--and destroy any remnants of it as it was before. Do some more research.

I have a Michigan birth certificate, which was updated 6 years ago. I know all about how that works. As I've said before. I have friends in DC. I know someone who works for Biden. I know people in State. I know people who work on Capital Hill. Queers and trans people in DC are networked and they talk about this stuff. They know how all this works because they're involved with making it better. There's been a concerted effort under Biden to improve trans experiences with the Fed across every agency. But those efforts could be swept away overnight when a fascist takes over the white house.

Fed does not "destroy remnants". Changing passport markers in the past required letters from psychiatrists and/or from surgeons/MDs attesting to medical transition. The feds have all that information. The Dept of State under unfriendly leadership could rescind passports that have undergone gender changes. They could require new or renewing passport holders to attest that their gender marker was what they were assigned at birth. At which point lying about it (even if you have an updated State birth certificate) would put you at risk of losing your passport or not having it renewed with your current gender. They will in the future simply deny gender changes for new trans people hoping to change their gender Marker. State has no legal obligation to allow people in the future to change their gender marker.

The people who Trump will bring into the State Dept this time around are not the moderate-right bureaucrats that made up most of the leadership in his first term. They are extremist ideologues who are promising to carry out a war against trans people. They plan to fire everyone in any position of power in any agency who doesn't align with them. And then they'll start fucking with people. And if you think they can't do that, you're naive or crazy. They don't care if 10k fired federal employees file lawsuits. They don't care if it cause havoc. The whole point of Project 2025 and of the second Trump term is cause havoc and to hurt their enemies. If you're gay or trans or a recent immigrant, you are their enemy. They plan to hurt you and make your life difficult.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by Squish Squash

I think the Nordic countries would probably be the best place for you to go?

Maybe. I'd actually love to live in Sweden, which has lots of cheap land homes available in rural areas. But my Viet wife doesn't want to have to live there, for understandable reasons. We've kind of narrowed things down to Costa Rica, though. Better weather. Aligned with US time zones. Still relatively inexpensive. Visa Costs are lower costs for Golden Visas if we decide to go that route.

What we've found in our current research regarding living abroad is that the biggest issue is working remotely. Neither of us works for a company that would allow us to work from a foreign country. If you work remotely for a US company it needs to be engaged with the country you're living in to ensure your payroll taxes are handled correctly for that country. And the country you live in/move to has to know about it. They don't just hand out visas to people who say "I have a remote job." I your employer doesn't cooperate, you won't get a residency visa.

[paranoid]

I was in Victoria BC last week and I didn't want to leave.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by paranoid

I was in Victoria BC last week and I didn't want to leave.

I love Victoria too. But damn it's expensive as hell.

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by MyOneAndOnly

Americans who were born in the States have no idea how fucking hard it can be to legally move to another country.

These colors don't run.