New song Nov 29th - Avalanche

[VoxUpDoc]

Even if she had a team orchestrating everything (and that team in recent years has been The National, Bon Iver and Bleachers, who all “slap” btw) - Glenn Campbell didn’t write Wichita Lineman and nobody gives a fuck. It’s ultimately about the end product.

[VoxUpDoc]

I mean are we certain Willy didn’t use a ghost writer for MCIS cos I’m listening to ATUM and I’m not seeing the link…

[ilikeplanets]

So regarding this episode of the podcast

Did anyone else catch when Billy insinuated that everything before Adore is music for uncultured teenagers

[MyKeyZ]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

So regarding this episode of the podcast

Did anyone else catch when Billy insinuated that everything before Adore is music for uncultured teenagers

If cultured means bland, boring, soulless, paint by numbers songwriting and performance, I'll take uncultured any day.

Oh, yes, Billy, that is your problem. The adult child who sadly rides choo choo trains, plays wrestling, calls transwomen he/she ugly pigs, and steals people's coloring books is too cultured.

[VoxUpDoc]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

So regarding this episode of the podcast

Did anyone else catch when Billy insinuated that everything before Adore is music for uncultured teenagers

Yea the album which hops around genres with many literary references is the “uncultured” album.

And not the drab slog about long horses and whores.

[incubator]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

So regarding this episode of the podcast

Did anyone else catch when Billy insinuated that everything before Adore is music for uncultured teenagers

I didn't catch that bit but yeah makes sense + not necessarily an insult coming from Him considering His true love (wrestling).

[brothahi4L]

well kids, you got me.

i really disliked avalanche after the first listen, but after 5 takes i really dig it.

it is one of the best songs so far , from atum.


well i go thru a lot of feelings at the moment - jeez

[houseofglass11]

It's clear that brothabigcoq4u's defenses are worn down and he will ultimately succumb to any Corgan atrocity no matter how much he initially protests.

[Joey Goldberg]

he's so aggressively closeted with his modern-day corgan love god damnit brotha it's okay

we will still LOVE you

[dustrocck]

Originally Posted by VoxUpDoc

I mean are we certain Willy didn’t use a ghost writer for MCIS cos I’m listening to ATUM and I’m not seeing the link…

pretty sure Courtney Love was ghostwriting half the album

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by dustrocck

pretty sure Courtney Love was ghostwriting half the album

Yep you can definitely hear Kurdt's dick influence looming all over MCIS, pretty sure that's what gives it the edge over the competition.

Also that's why Bolly hates it so much.

[ilikeplanets]

Jokes aside, it really does seem like BC hates the rock based albums ( pre Adore, before the "necessary shift" [his words]) and I don't understand how or why

[Forgotten Child]

Originally Posted by VoxUpDoc

I mean are we certain Willy didn’t use a ghost writer for MCIS cos I’m listening to ATUM and I’m not seeing the link…

Years ago, I'd say back in 2005, I found an interview with a journalist who claimed he found out Billy ripped off an old, obscure poet. I remember I read a few poems and they were not only similar to his lyrics, but Billy used like full lines and verses, sometimes only changing a few words. He was like "when Billy wrote Mellon Collie, we basically had no internet. He probably came across this old book of poems by a fairly unknown poet and thought nobody would know he was stealing from him. A few years later, the internet happened and we could find just about everything online".

The journalist said he questioned Billy but got no reply. He also said he had no problem with artists using somebody else's work, that it was a common practice etc, but he had a problem with Billy not giving any credits to the artist. I remember he said something like "especially Billy, who likes to take all the credits".

Did I save the interview? Of course not

[houseofglass11]

Was that him using lines from “Night” by Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel?

“
Listessa> Was MCIS influenced by the writing of Elie Wiesel?

BC> (I) never even heard of him nor read any of his work. (I) was deeply
insulted by the accusation of lyrical plagiarism. Anyone who knows me
knows i would never be that lame. A guitar riff, maybe, but not
words. There are only 12 notes, but a million words.”

Further reading:
https://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=137588

[VoxUpDoc]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

Did I save the interview? Of course not

So just peeling back the curtain here, a lot of the intelligent stuff about MCIS attributed to Billy was just ripped off from another dude, and that’s why his recent work is much weaker (especially his lyrics post Zwan) and probably why he’s rummaging around in the 1930’s for ideas to rip.

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

Did I save the interview? Of course not

looking for info on that speculation I came across the story that Billy apparently sued Ed Roland of Collective Soul claiming Shine, an absolute all time banger, was a rip off of Drown or Rhinoceros. Billy lost. Lmao

[VoxUpDoc]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

Was that him using lines from “Night” by Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel?

“
Listessa> Was MCIS influenced by the writing of Elie Wiesel?

BC> (I) never even heard of him nor read any of his work. (I) was deeply
insulted by the accusation of lyrical plagiarism. Anyone who knows me
knows i would never be that lame. A guitar riff, maybe, but not
words. There are only 12 notes, but a million words.”

Further reading:
https://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=137588

Didn’t see any quotes that screamed rip off here.

[Forgotten Child]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

Was that him using lines from “Night” by Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel?

“
Listessa> Was MCIS influenced by the writing of Elie Wiesel?

BC> (I) never even heard of him nor read any of his work. (I) was deeply
insulted by the accusation of lyrical plagiarism. Anyone who knows me
knows i would never be that lame. A guitar riff, maybe, but not
words. There are only 12 notes, but a million words.”

Further reading:
https://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=137588

No it wasn't that one nor Robert Herrick, thetre something about one of his poems being compared to Tonight Tonight as well.

He used a few lines to write Porcelina, Tonight Tonight, jelly belly... I think those are the ones I remember...

[ourruseoffools]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

Billy insinuated that everything before Adore is music for uncultured teenagers

i kind of agree

[Disco King]

I vaguely remember Corgan saying something a few years ago that made it seem like he didn't like Adore. I'm sure he just says shit sometimes.

[Joey Goldberg]

Originally Posted by ourruseoffools

i kind of agree

No one thinks you’re cool for saying this

[ourruseoffools]

Originally Posted by Joey Goldberg

No one thinks you’re cool for saying this

i like it that way

[houseofglass11]

Taylor is music for uncultured teenagers so you’re just trading one for the other I guess.

[ilikeplanets]

Originally Posted by ourruseoffools

i kind of agree

Sincerely?

I hope Billy did actually plagiarize those songs because that hurts less than someone who wrote Hummer and XYU turning into someone who wrote Beguiled.

[ilikeplanets]

I actually think Billy might just be trashing the music up until Adore because he can't write like that again and has to act like he's less proud of those songs to make it seem like his inability to reach that level again is a conscious choice.

[ilikeplanets]

Question for ourruseoffools:

What about Smashing Pumpkins do you like enough to seek out a message board if you think the music from 88-98 is for uncultured teenagers? Or is it that your consider your own tastes (and all of ours) limited and terrible?

[vitaldust]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

I actually think Billy might just be trashing the music up until Adore because he can't write like that again and has to act like he's less proud of those songs to make it seem like his inability to reach that level again is a conscious choice.

yeah i've thought about this also in terms of fear or doubt.

I do believe that there is a sincere desire to evolve what the band is at the heart of their new sound. I admire it even though the music doesn't make me feel as intensely. I also suspect there is a larger 'we control the narrative of who we are' type of thing happening with Cyr and Atum which I also like the spirit of. As stubborn as it is, there is an alternative undertone to it, there is something being said. Right on. But I like both Cyr and Atum so that factors into how I'm reading it.

But you have to think that if its really top-of-the world success he is after, the path seems easier to me with a return to the pre-adore sound. He must know that, right?

I think he can still write like that again (or at least I want to believe it), but I can imagine a tremendous amount of resistance from the inner enemy. What if he tries but can't? What if he gives it everything he's got and its not as good as the best he's done? That's a scary thing to face as a professional artist.

Weirdly, it is a form of selling out if you never evolve or take creative risks. It's also a bit of a cop out to say you are always evolving and will never return to the sound that everybody loves more than anything else you've ever done. Art is hard.

[killtrocity]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

Did I save the interview? Of course not

yeah but see we're gonna need that interview, so..

[ourruseoffools]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

Question for ourruseoffools:

What about Smashing Pumpkins do you like enough to seek out a message board if you think the music from 88-98 is for uncultured teenagers? Or is it that your consider your own tastes (and all of ours) limited and terrible?

adore>mcis>machina>>>>>>>>>>sd/pieces/gish/pregish

[ourruseoffools]

i see what hes saying tho that adore was a big leap in songwriting maturity that continued with machina but breathed its dying breaths on zwan before becoming a different beast entirely...