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07-29-2022, 10:27 PM | #1 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,850
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Hey Elph, Can You Answer This Question For Me?
How the hell did industrial stuff become part of goth
You show up to a goth club, and half the people look like Robert Smith, and the other half are these leather-clad rivet-head guys. How the fuck is this the same subculture Actually, it's not even 50/50. The industrial guys in leather s̶k̶i̶r̶t̶s̶ gaultiers and JNCO jeans outnumber the trad goths two-to-one. |
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07-30-2022, 11:13 AM | #2 |
Minion of Satan
Location: andy dick NAKED
Posts: 8,168
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1 side loves the gloom, the other loves the doom
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07-30-2022, 11:26 AM | #3 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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Ecstasy infiltrating the UK indie rock scene in the mid-80s sparking an interest in dance music
The more dour of the bunch looked back to OG Industrial bands like Throbbing Gristle and SPK for inspiration but with the capabilities of modern technology Around the same time in Chicago the Wax Trax scene was huge As for walking into a a club now, it's just people LARPing whatever era they like the best |
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07-30-2022, 11:32 AM | #4 |
Janis Jopleybird
Location: Let me see you do the booty hop. And now make the booty stop. Now drop, and do the booty wop.
Posts: 6,564
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JNCO in the streets, Siouxsie in the sheets
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07-30-2022, 11:35 AM | #5 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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lmao
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07-30-2022, 11:35 AM | #6 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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"but daddy i love him"
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07-30-2022, 10:41 PM | #7 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,850
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Quote:
And yeah, anyone part of a pre-established subculture now is always going to be somewhat removed from the original context in which it formed. A hippy in 2020 is a person who read about what hippies did in the '60s and who made a conscious effort to emulate it. No judgement, I'm not going to gatekeep subcultures. But it's like, at some point, they Googled "goth fashion" and picked the parts they liked and put on the costume. |
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07-30-2022, 11:12 PM | #8 |
Braindead
Location: TX
Posts: 16,289
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according to Genesis' autobio Ian Curtis called to sing the Throbbing Gristle song "Weeping" over the phone shortly before his suicide
they were close friends and both shared a love of Frank Sinatra what we call post-punk now was always entangled with early industrial...folks ran in the same scenes and such |
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07-30-2022, 11:21 PM | #9 |
Braindead
Location: TX
Posts: 16,289
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though specifically the word "Goth" means a lot of different things to different people and doesn't even necessarily have anything to do with music
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07-30-2022, 11:34 PM | #10 |
Braindead
Location: TX
Posts: 16,289
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a lot of people just have bad tastes...more thought was put into the fashion aspect of these groups than probably your garden variety rivethead is really capable of
TG's militarized look included a very deliberate attempt to make essentially designer camouflage...stuff like that the whole Bromley Contingent (think Siouxsie) was involved in fashion way before they fell into music Last edited by Elphenor : 07-30-2022 at 11:43 PM. |
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07-31-2022, 12:42 AM | #11 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: up on the cross you go little fella
Posts: 2,676
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I'd say the Wax Trax scene has a lot to do with it.
See: Early Ministry going from synthpop to EBM/industro-dance within the space of a few years. Jim and Danny at WT were responsible for getting Bauhaus to come stateside for the first time, they blew up there immediately afterward. Skinny Puppy were also pretty much looking like mohawked goblins by 1984, and Al was very enamored with them. |
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08-02-2022, 07:08 PM | #12 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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08-02-2022, 07:11 PM | #13 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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08-02-2022, 07:14 PM | #14 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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i want to talk about coil and late-80s cabaret voltaire records
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08-02-2022, 07:23 PM | #15 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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Or the transition from camo-TG to PTV when Gen got kicked out of England when the police raided his house for video tapes of ritual sex, abuse, torment, and other x-rated materials.
or when coil included audio of children being abused Worlds apart from skinny pale guys sucking in their cheeks at a local club trying to look like a mysterious vampire to be sincere for a moment i think if you're looking for a moment when those lines blurred it would probably be SPK or skinny puppy? taking the grotesque inhuman/human parts of industrial and merging them with the romantic/pop-driven vampire parts of goth? cabaret voltaire had a really slow transition but i think always remained pretty "industrial" (ie - were never sexy vampires) I feel like a real f## having conversations like this screw you guys lol |
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08-05-2022, 03:25 PM | #16 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: up on the cross you go little fella
Posts: 2,676
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08-05-2022, 08:11 PM | #17 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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I was being hyperbolic (who me?) but if memory serves me right there's some song in maybe Love's Secret Domain that has very nefarious sampling origins
OR I'm remembering wrong and it's very innocent and presented in a very nefarious way I'm actually not totally versed in Coil so I'll admit that too. Gosh, look at me spreading rumors about Coil on the internet in 2022. |
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08-05-2022, 08:12 PM | #18 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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Please tell me everything you know about Coil
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08-05-2022, 09:10 PM | #19 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: up on the cross you go little fella
Posts: 2,676
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One time Jhonn Balance jerked off on Trent's leather sofa at Nothing studios out of nowhere
My favorite album is a toss-up between Horse Rotorvator and Backwards (2015). Danny Hyde pushes a lot of crap but he did a good job on that one. I've been around the discography a few times. A lot of the later stuff is impenetrable but everything's worth checking out once. The Music To Play In The Dark albums are goddamned masterpieces. Amethyst Deceivers off the Autumn Equinox EP is...transcendant |
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08-05-2022, 09:17 PM | #20 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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the music to play in the dark albums are the only ones i've revisited aside from love's secret domain and horse rotorvator.
is that really all i need? |
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08-06-2022, 11:59 AM | #21 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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I read this insanely long fan-bio of the group on archive.org a few months ago, and also checked out their rejected Hellraiser soundtrack.
Really sucked to hear the one guy was an insane drunk w/ possible other mental illnesses piled on Are their any particularly good live video shows to watch? Do you think they had a "peak era"? It seems like they had many peaks in their career. I hear people saying different albums from different decades are their best. Supposedly the band never made much profit but was bankrolled by Sleazy's album-design money? come on man, feed me with info |
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08-06-2022, 04:40 PM | #22 | ||
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: up on the cross you go little fella
Posts: 2,676
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Quote:
Quote:
JB had very longstanding mental health issues and his alcoholism eventually wound up killing him when he fell off a balcony drunk. It's rather sad. There's footage of their very last show ever and he's basically falling apart at the seams. "Peak" is a difficult term to apply to them. Horse Rotorvator is an incredibly influential album for the likes of NIN of course but it's a pretty commonly held opinion that they really hit the top of their game and did their best work in the late 90's with the MTPITD albums, particularly the first one. They called their earlier, harsher period their "solar" phase and their later period their "lunar"" phase. Ape Of Naples is viewed by a lot of people as a beautiful final work. |
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08-06-2022, 05:54 PM | #23 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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thanks for the listening recs. Haven't heard Backwards or thousand lights before.
nothing worth watching, then? not a single live show? absolutely not a single live show worth watching? |
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08-07-2022, 11:45 AM | #24 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: up on the cross you go little fella
Posts: 2,676
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Last show ever. Only performance of Unhappy Rabbits. This one's pretty decent as I recall: |
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08-07-2022, 12:34 PM | #25 |
Minion of Satan
Location: andy dick NAKED
Posts: 8,168
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smashingjj, can you tell me about Recoil?
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08-07-2022, 01:05 PM | #26 |
Braindead
Location: TX
Posts: 16,289
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08-07-2022, 01:12 PM | #27 |
Braindead
Location: TX
Posts: 16,289
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I read Cosey's autobio too which was interesting as you get an idea of what is Gen being an unreliable narrator and what probably did actually happen as it appears exactly the same in both accounts
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08-07-2022, 01:41 PM | #28 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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i'm reading that right now lol
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08-07-2022, 01:58 PM | #29 |
Braindead
Location: TX
Posts: 16,289
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and, not to try and "cancel" them, but Gen was genuinely a crazed individual
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08-07-2022, 02:27 PM | #30 |
Braindead
Location: TX
Posts: 16,289
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industrial, like everything else, devolved into self-parody
but TG really were the next evolution in rocknroll more primitive, more frightening, subversive, sexy etc. than any of their contemporaries and with a cult-like frontman that made them more like a pop act than something exp like NWW |
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