A fact about Billy's mother that changes everything.

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

I think that, reprise. I'm not commenting on Corgan specifically, but loads of people have similar or equally wack personality disorders without an abusive or neglectful childhood. Or maybe they just perceived what were average disappointments and struggles as abusive or neglectful? I think there's a genetic component to that, too, but I'm no geneticist.

I think it's hard to qualify what is traumatizing to children, and everyone is different, but any kind of physical/emotional/sexual abuse, abandonment or threat of abandonment, serious health issues at a young age, moderately-severe injuries, etc, will devastate some kids and not others. Yes, there's a predisposition w/r/t sensitivity and also resilience is a factor and these are genetic or at least largely genetically based. Absolutely. But a kid doesn't have a perfect childhood and come out with BPD or NPD.

Corgan probably perceived his mom as abandoning him, whatever he was told or whatever the true reason was. I was only threatened with abandonment (all the time) and it fucked me up a little. Lots of other shit happened to me, sure. But even with all the other shit, that's a core thing that still comes up in therapy to this day.

[Funbags]

I have no doubt it fucked Billy up.

Maybe Billy really did believe his mother left him because "she was crazy" -which was probably what his idiot dad told him and his brothers. At least that would explain why Billy's been singing about her this way for 30 years.

Maybe new information came to light after his dad died?

[ilikeplanets]

Originally Posted by ourruseoffools

i mean, probably more accurately, she chose to leave his drug addict father who was still pining to be a famous blues guitarist

imagine how many pentatonic licks she had to hear before she lost it

Full agree

[ilikeplanets]

Divorces and/or bad marriages happen, even back then. I don't know why she didn't take her kids, though. That's the only thing I find unusual about the situation.

[run2pee]

Originally Posted by NovaFritz

I don't know.
There might a be a history of Billy-types in the Corgan family tree. Insufferable, self-obsessed, talented. I don't find much in his narrative that convinces me of serious abuse or neglect. It seems like he was trying to turn his mother into John Lennon's Julia.

Can’t remember where i read it (live journal?) but he has described being whipped to bleeding with a belt by his father

[run2pee]

Also something about his stepmoms tits?

[run2pee]

Originally Posted by Funbags

Shame you can't purchase a third brain cell.

Dude wicked retorts, check out our repartee here, somebody copy paste so we can add this to netpho flame wars hall of fame

[houseofglass11]

Originally Posted by Funbags

I wouldn't be surprised if this was the true reason, and the "crazy" angle was probably played up by Corgan Sr to shift blame. Bollzy idolizes his father, but by all accounts he was a shit human at worst and a seedy blues guitarist at best.

I mean the dude had three kids at home including a special needs son and was still trying to make it as a BLUES GUITARIST. Dude was still overdosing in his old age. What a fuckknuckle.

I mean, did it occur to you that this was his fathers livelihood and he probably supported his household with the money he made from gigs? It’s likely he made more money than a musician would make now since there were more touring circuits and bar networks of gigs back then not to mention that blues was a hugely popular style at the time. Also why should his dad have given up his dream or something he loved doing just because he had kids?

[ilikeplanets]

If what you love doing means a bunch of druggies will be hanging out in your basement in between whipping your kids with a belt, you should definitely stop

[Forgotten Child]

Originally Posted by Funbags

Let me explain it for your tiny brain!

Previously: Billy was pining for his mother who was unfortunately unable to be there for him due to being mentally ill. She involuntarily left him.

Currently: Billy was pining for a mother who, while mentally ill, was living an otherwise normal life with another family. She chose to leave him.

It changes the meaning of his songs, and if you rub your two brain cells together, you may even detect the difference.

He spoke about his mom's mental health on one episode tho. I think there was a schizophrenia diagnosis as well. Apparently it took them a while to come to a conclusion about it.

[TheAlter]

Billy once said something like "my father was offered to join [successful band i don't remember] right before their big break but he refused because he was making as much money as all the members combined".

His father probably made a respectable living from touring but fucked up doing drugs and rocknroll lifestyle in general.

[T&T]

Billy's dad probably NEVER told billy lies about his fugitive mother. "those are her drugs, not mine"

[houseofglass11]

Pretty sure the band in question that his dad almost joined was the Amboy Dukes, Ted Nugent’s band before he went solo.

[ilikeplanets]

Now there's an interesting fact!

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

Pretty sure the band in question that his dad almost joined was the Amboy Dukes, Ted Nugent’s band before he went solo.

Correct Sir, it was the Amboy Dukes.

Just found the mammoth 6-page Rolling Stone interview. He talks about his childhood too.

[Funbags]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

I mean, did it occur to you that this was his fathers livelihood and he probably supported his household with the money he made from gigs? It’s likely he made more money than a musician would make now since there were more touring circuits and bar networks of gigs back then not to mention that blues was a hugely popular style at the time. Also why should his dad have given up his dream or something he loved doing just because he had kids?

Ah yes, Billy Corgan Sr the wholesome blues guitarist.

[themadcaplaughs]

His mother had legitimate mental illness; does not mean that she did not have attempts to lead a normal life. I imagine if she tried to "start over" with a new family and not ******* her children, that would be pretty traumatizing.

He's talked about little pieces over the years between interviews, the confessions, and the podcast. In the Confessions, he talks about how his mom lived with a long term partner (essentially a husband) and still had to be committed shortly before his wedding due to her illness flaring.

EDIT: Just noticed that the last place that had all of the Confession entries (his livejournal) seems to be gone. That's a shame. Those were good posts. In many ways, I consider it to be the last time he was able to look objectively at the success of Smashing Pumpkins and what each member brought to it. You can still see him sliding towards "I hate James and D'arcy", but he openly admits how important they were to the band's sound and his songwriting.

[TheAlter]

Huh, let's see, would you like to live a life of despair and misery with William Corgan Sr coked out on the sofa of a dilapidated house in the faraway suburbs, William Jr playing fucking Scorpions riffs non-stop, the other brother spray painting shit in the garage?

Or given the opportunity would you run away with Brad Lutz, very reassuring name, for a life of sustainable prosperity in charming Skookie, IL?

Props to Martha Louise Lutz for doing the right thing.

[Ram27]

someone archived those all i hope, right

[houseofglass11]

Originally Posted by TheAlter

Huh, let's see, would you like to live a life of despair and misery with William Corgan Sr coked out on the sofa of a dilapidated house in the faraway suburbs, William Jr playing fucking Scorpions riffs non-stop, the other brother spray painting shit in the garage?

Or given the opportunity would you run away with Brad Lutz, very reassuring name, for a life of sustainable prosperity in charming Skookie, IL?

Props to Martha Louise Lutz for doing the right thing.

What kind of mother abandons her kids though? At least William Sr. kept a roof over their head.

[NovaFritz]

just check the wayback machine.
I am sure there are some links to it in the netphoria archive so you get the urls.

Originally Posted by themadcaplaughs

His mother had legitimate mental illness; does not mean that she did not have attempts to lead a normal life. I imagine if she tried to "start over" with a new family and not ******* her children, that would be pretty traumatizing.

He's talked about little pieces over the years between interviews, the confessions, and the podcast. In the Confessions, he talks about how his mom lived with a long term partner (essentially a husband) and still had to be committed shortly before his wedding due to her illness flaring.

EDIT: Just noticed that the last place that had all of the Confession entries (his livejournal) seems to be gone. That's a shame. Those were good posts. In many ways, I consider it to be the last time he was able to look objectively at the success of Smashing Pumpkins and what each member brought to it. You can still see him sliding towards "I hate James and D'arcy", but he openly admits how important they were to the band's sound and his songwriting.

[ilikeplanets]

Originally Posted by TheAlter

Huh, let's see, would you like to live a life of despair and misery with William Corgan Sr coked out on the sofa of a dilapidated house in the faraway suburbs, William Jr playing fucking Scorpions riffs non-stop, the other brother spray painting shit in the garage?

Or given the opportunity would you run away with Brad Lutz, very reassuring name, for a life of sustainable prosperity in charming Skookie, IL?

Props to Martha Louise Lutz for doing the right thing.

I would definitely leave in an instant, but not without my kids, even if they were annoying af. That's the huge red flag of mental illness for me, not ending a marriage.

[ilikeplanets]

I can't even think of a scenario that's insane enough where I'd separate from mine and not at least try to make it work with us together under one roof. Of course that's going to have a horrible impact, I can't imagine the feeling of rejection. That's tragic enough if she was legitimately mentally ill, which I think you'd have to be to abandon your kids, but even worse if she wasn't and just wanted to do better with Brad.

[topleybird]

[topleybird]

You, not thinking before you speak: "Oh why would someone leave Billy Corgan behind, I could never"

Billy Corgan:



Me, wise: Fuck them kids

[topleybird]

You think seven-year-old Billy wasn't complaining about how people just remembered his sand castle from three years ago and no one was paying enough attention to the shitty new one he just made? You think those "empty party afternoons" were because his parents forgot to send the invites? Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

[ilikeplanets]

There's no undoing having your kids, yo. You gotta commit to the possibility of them being shitbags. They're YOUR shitbags.

[topleybird]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

There's no undoing having your kids, yo.

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[run2pee]

Originally Posted by topleybird

You think seven-year-old Billy wasn't complaining about how people just remembered his sand castle from three years ago and no one was paying enough attention to the shitty new one he just made? You think those "empty party afternoons" were because his parents forgot to send the invites? Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

Holy shit dude u really gotta stop with it today, i cant spread near enough to keep up

Me, reading a topley post today:

[run2pee]

Thought it was "empty potty afternoons" where lil big will was shamed for not duking in the potty but rather in his panties