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Old 01-14-2007, 04:52 PM   #61
Izzle
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Originally Posted by pale blue eyes
I'm not saying Corgan is devoid of talent but saying he has done more for music than Dylan is just mindboggling. I mean, no offense, but you have got to be fucking kidding me. I'm not saying everything Dylan has turned out has been golden by any means. Hell, he turned out a lot of crap in the 1980s and has even admitted this. The way you're talking about Corgan makes it seem like you just eat up anything he churns out though. If Bob Dylan recorded a fart in studio and named it something pretentious, I would say it sucked but somehow I think if Corgan did that you'd say it was better than the last best thing he did and that makes me sad.
sorry, i didn't see your post. that fart in the studio comment was just facetious and you know it isn't true. although, to be honest, i'm sure thats just the sort of ironic stunt that would give many people a kick if it actually happened. and if i sound like i'll eat up anything billy does, then its simply because i've paid close attention to him and i can see that he has a good reason for everything he does. he's not stupid, and if he told me he wanted to start a band called zwan or tfe i'd wait to see what came of it and i'd do my best to look through it before slating it off. case in point- tfe is misunderstood, zwan was superficially a joke that few people got. billy's always thinking ahead.

 
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Old 01-14-2007, 05:16 PM   #62
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The fart in the studio comment was purposely facetious, obviously, but it didn't seem like that far of a stretch when compared to some of the other stuff you have said. I don't think Corgan is stupid or untalented, if I did I sure have wasted a lot of time and money for the past fourteen years or so. However, I am also not under the delusion that everything he does is fantastic. I gave Zwan a chance and his solo stuff but it just did not keep my interest. I think that is the difference between a fan and hero worship, the ability to look and something and say, "Yeah, it sucks," but admit you will still probably buy the next thing he / she / they release. And when Corgan releases another solo album or "reforms" the Pumpkins or releases an album of duets with Courtney Love or whatever, I'll buy that too because I am a fan. I'm just not going to make any promises about liking it.

As for Dylan, you are misinformed about the Newport show. All that booing him off the stage stuff is myth, and he performed an electric and acoustic set for that entire tour. That being said, plugging in at a folk festival was still a pretty big fuck you to a large portion of his audience and I don't think Corgan has done anything that has come close to that.

 
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Old 01-14-2007, 05:30 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Nate the Grate
Ask yourself...what has Billy Corgan done for music? Seriously, I love SP, they're my favorite band of all-time, but they're not exactly changing the musical landscape. They're just a darn good band. Bob Dylan is a probably just behind the Beatles in terms of historical importance, with the Rolling Stones nipping at his heels. Come on, dude. The Pumpkins were a moderately successful 90's rock band (not even THE most successful of the decade!). Take off the rose colored glasses.
oh man, where do i begin? well how's this for a start-

they've covered hard rock, metal, glam, goth, 60's psychadelia, dreampop, synth, classical, jazz, new wave, electronica and dance, funk, folk, country, gospel, blues, and probably a few more, all in the space of 12 years, always proficiently, often brilliantly, usually even fused totally disparate genres in a way that hadn't been done before, sometimes written songs that sound like nothing else you've ever heard. each successive record was a total leap, both sonically and stylistically- they were never "just about the music", they were an entire autonomous evolving artistic statement in a way that no other band has been, because few artists take such a daring creative attitude, and hardly any have been as successful. can you think of even one album more out-of-this-world than mellon collie? one album like machina? one like adore? how can you honestly say the smashing pumpkins were just "a moderately successful 90s rock band"?? are you suggesting there is anyone even remotely like them, or more creative, or more prolific and consistent, or more varied, or more complex, or more interesting, or more personal, or even more fun? if i stretch my imagination, the only other artists that come close are beck and maybe frank zappa, even though they're still totally their own thing. but ask yourself the most important question of all- is there even ONE other band or singer, or anyone at all, that can strike you in your fucking heart like the pumpkins do? because THAT is what the bc and the pumpkins bring to music. just...love. they make you care. because they care. and maybe there is no one defining reason or explanation for it, but something is just right about that band that isn't right with any other, before or since. they are a fucking golden egg and everything a band could aspire to be. tell me that isn't priceless.

ps. if there is actually a band that mean more to you, let me know cause i'd be very interested to check them out.

 
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Old 01-14-2007, 05:31 PM   #64
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yeah right. i'm pretty sure that billy has plugged in his guitar too, missy

 
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Old 01-14-2007, 06:25 PM   #65
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that can strike you in your fucking heart like the pumpkins do? because THAT is what the bc and the pumpkins bring to music. just...love. they make you care. because they care. and maybe there is no one defining reason or explanation for it, but something is just right about that band that isn't right with any other, before or since. they are a fucking golden egg and everything a band could aspire to be. tell me that isn't priceless.
I love the Pumpkins, but damned if this isn't the kind of thing a stereotypical Pumpkins fan might post.

A lot of artists have affected me emotionally, including Dylan. It's not a song, but "Last Thoughts on Woody Guthrie" = :-( Unlike the Pumpkins, though, Dylan doesn't stop there (for the most part). Dude's got a wicked sense of humor if you pick it up.

 
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Old 01-14-2007, 06:54 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by bloop
I love the Pumpkins, but damned if this isn't the kind of thing a stereotypical Pumpkins fan might post.
well, if that is the description of a stereotypical sp fan, it can't be hard to see why can it? i love alot of different bands and kinds of music but sp are the only one that really make me feel anything at all. i know i'm not alone on this.

 
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Old 01-14-2007, 07:01 PM   #67
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izzle is just throwing around words without any meaning. i have yet to hear this "profound impact" the smashing pumpkins had on mainstream music. or the genres they "invented". this religious fanatism is more off-putting than any "nasal" singing bob dylan has ever recorded, including his vocals on oxford town.

 
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Old 01-14-2007, 07:10 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzle
oh man, where do i begin? well how's this for a start-

they've covered hard rock, metal, glam, goth, 60's psychadelia, dreampop, synth, classical, jazz, new wave, electronica and dance, funk, folk, country, gospel, blues, and probably a few more, all in the space of 12 years, always proficiently, often brilliantly, usually even fused totally disparate genres in a way that hadn't been done before, sometimes written songs that sound like nothing else you've ever heard. each successive record was a total leap, both sonically and stylistically- they were never "just about the music", they were an entire autonomous evolving artistic statement in a way that no other band has been, because few artists take such a daring creative attitude, and hardly any have been as successful. can you think of even one album more out-of-this-world than mellon collie? one album like machina? one like adore? how can you honestly say the smashing pumpkins were just "a moderately successful 90s rock band"?? are you suggesting there is anyone even remotely like them, or more creative, or more prolific and consistent, or more varied, or more complex, or more interesting, or more personal, or even more fun? if i stretch my imagination, the only other artists that come close are beck and maybe frank zappa, even though they're still totally their own thing. but ask yourself the most important question of all- is there even ONE other band or singer, or anyone at all, that can strike you in your fucking heart like the pumpkins do? because THAT is what the bc and the pumpkins bring to music. just...love. they make you care. because they care. and maybe there is no one defining reason or explanation for it, but something is just right about that band that isn't right with any other, before or since. they are a fucking golden egg and everything a band could aspire to be. tell me that isn't priceless.

ps. if there is actually a band that mean more to you, let me know cause i'd be very interested to check them out.
the whole thing about a band 'striking your heart' is irrelevent. that has nothing to do with how good they are and everything to do with how much of a biased fanboy you are

 
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Old 01-14-2007, 07:24 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Rockin' Cherub
izzle is just throwing around words without any meaning. i have yet to hear this "profound impact" the smashing pumpkins had on mainstream music. or the genres they "invented". this religious fanatism is more off-putting than any "nasal" singing bob dylan has ever recorded, including his vocals on oxford town.
words without any meaning, right. its interesting that you bring up sp's "impact on mainstream music". here's the story of sp's mainstream success:

they were on top of the world for a few years, yet somehow these days they're all but forgotten in the mainstream music press- when was the last time you heard a music magazine or tv show talk about 90s music and mention anything about the pumpkins? of all the big bands of sp's generation, nirvana, pearl jam, jane's addiction, rhcp, hole, soundgarden, nin- the pumpkins are always the ones who get the least recognition, if any. taking into consideration that they were one of the longest lasting, most successful and creatively diverse bands of the 90s, there must be some valid reason why they get so little attention, and i'm still really not sure what that is. i believe that they were too good for the mainstream to ignore, but also too avant-garde (mcis onwards) for the majority of the public to get. at least gish and siamese dream had the grunge wave to ride on, people were ready for that sound and wanted it. after that, sp blew up into something totally different that the mainstream couldn't contain or understand, couldn't fit into any sort of marketing strategy or genre, the pumpkins just seemed to work on the sheer strength of their efforts. there were enough fans out there to sustain the band til the end, but the fans were (and are) like the band in that they were hard to pin down or market to, so they were sort of underground without really knowing it. the mainstream helped sp find their audience, but most people just weren't ready to grow along with the band and abandoned them after mcis because adore was so different. its just a case of being ahead of their time. but time will be kind to the pumpkins, and i am confident that in the not-too-distant future, they will get the recognition they deserve.


as for inventing genres...don't you think that by fusing existing ones so heavily as sp always have, they've effectively created an anti-genre? they're labelled, quite lazily i think, as "alternative" just because there is no sound that you can pigeonhole them into, they've covered a tremendous amount of musical territory. (and certainly more than any of the other so-called alternative bands of their generation). they just obliterated the concept of genre. wouldn't you say that's the greatest genre of all?

Last edited by Izzle : 01-14-2007 at 07:30 PM.

 
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Old 01-14-2007, 07:36 PM   #70
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you're talking your way around everything. i wonder how you get along at uni.

 
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Old 01-14-2007, 07:43 PM   #71
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i don't talk to anyone.


what do you mean i'm talking around everything, what do you expect to hear?

 
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Old 01-14-2007, 07:49 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzle
words without any meaning, right. its interesting that you bring up sp's "impact on mainstream music". here's the story of sp's mainstream success:

they were on top of the world for a few years, yet somehow these days they're all but forgotten in the mainstream music press- when was the last time you heard a music magazine or tv show talk about 90s music and mention anything about the pumpkins? of all the big bands of sp's generation, nirvana, pearl jam, jane's addiction, rhcp, hole, soundgarden, nin- the pumpkins are always the ones who get the least recognition, if any. taking into consideration that they were one of the longest lasting, most successful and creatively diverse bands of the 90s, there must be some valid reason why they get so little attention, and i'm still really not sure what that is. i believe that they were too good for the mainstream to ignore, but also too avant-garde (mcis onwards) for the majority of the public to get. at least gish and siamese dream had the grunge wave to ride on, people were ready for that sound and wanted it. after that, sp blew up into something totally different that the mainstream couldn't contain or understand, couldn't fit into any sort of marketing strategy or genre, the pumpkins just seemed to work on the sheer strength of their efforts. there were enough fans out there to sustain the band til the end, but the fans were (and are) like the band in that they were hard to pin down or market to, so they were sort of underground without really knowing it. the mainstream helped sp find their audience, but most people just weren't ready to grow along with the band and abandoned them after mcis because adore was so different. its just a case of being ahead of their time. but time will be kind to the pumpkins, and i am confident that in the not-too-distant future, they will get the recognition they deserve.


as for inventing genres...don't you think that by fusing existing ones so heavily as sp always have, they've effectively created an anti-genre? they're labelled, quite lazily i think, as "alternative" just because there is no sound that you can pigeonhole them into, they've covered a tremendous amount of musical territory. (and certainly more than any of the other so-called alternative bands of their generation). they just obliterated the concept of genre. wouldn't you say that's the greatest genre of all?
dude, this was fascinating.

i'll just pick out one thing: please take it from me, the Pumpkins, except for maybe a very small amount of songs that didn't make the albums in the first place, have nothing avantgarde about their music.

 
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Old 01-14-2007, 09:23 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by smashingjj
dude, this was fascinating.

i'll just pick out one thing: please take it from me, the Pumpkins, except for maybe a very small amount of songs that didn't make the albums in the first place, have nothing avantgarde about their music.
good fascinating or the dumb kind?

yeah i know sp aren't really avant garde, but you know what i mean. they weren't the only artistically sophisticated mainstream musicians at that time, but they were still really unique. i think you can find a similar pattern of success and failure in those other musicians too. beck, bjork etc were all doing their own thing, but they also received a similar sort of cult following whilst being technically mainstream.

 
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Old 01-15-2007, 12:57 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Rockin' Cherub
are you sure you quoted the right person
I didn't quote the right person. I probably shouldn't post when I'm stoned.

 
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Old 01-15-2007, 03:01 AM   #75
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man this thread is just dripping with LOL. no energy to waste on dylan haters.

 
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:45 AM   #76
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Isle! I love you!
But, good sir, in this instance, youíre just wrong.
It cant be argued that Corgan has done more for music then Dylan. Dylan is pretty much the reason why people like Corgan make the music they do.

 
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:45 AM   #77
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Jesus, why does anyone take izzle seriously.

I agree with everything pbe said.

 
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:46 PM   #78
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dylan=genius. i have 25+ albums. and whether or not you like his recordings you have to realise he influenced nearly everyone incl. beatles, stones, etc.
and while there are occasionally certain things i don't love on his records, his voice ain't one.
i recommend hearing his first album if you haven't. pretty punk for a 'traditional folk' record.

Last edited by aztec litany service : 01-15-2007 at 06:00 PM.

 
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:59 PM   #79
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dbl post

Last edited by aztec litany service : 01-15-2007 at 06:06 PM.

 
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Old 01-16-2007, 04:41 AM   #80
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i'm yet to hear a good band influenced by the smashing pumpkins

 
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Old 01-16-2007, 07:01 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzle
good fascinating or the dumb kind?

yeah i know sp aren't really avant garde, but you know what i mean. they weren't the only artistically sophisticated mainstream musicians at that time, but they were still really unique. i think you can find a similar pattern of success and failure in those other musicians too. beck, bjork etc were all doing their own thing, but they also received a similar sort of cult following whilst being technically mainstream.
you don't know what avant garde is

 
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Old 01-16-2007, 10:59 AM   #82
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i know what avant garde is, stop being facetious. i already said- they weren't avant garde, because they didn't necessarily innovate many of the ideas that they applied to their work. but they were still challenging convention in that not many mainstream bands/musicians at the time were being arty as sp were.

also, can we just remind ourselves of what we were originally discussing- i said sp, just as an example, have made a huge amount of sonic, creative and ethical contributions to music, and i'm frustrated that they don't get much recognition for it,whilst artists like dylan, who have made far less musical innovations in their time, get more recognition. although it goes without saying that obviously dylan is praised mainly for his songwriting rather than sonic innovation, which makes him an inappropriate choice to compare with a band, let alone sp.

 
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Old 01-16-2007, 11:00 AM   #83
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lol at this thread.

 
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Old 01-16-2007, 11:49 AM   #84
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Bob Dylan's influence on popular music is incalculable. As a songwriter, he pioneered several different schools of pop songwriting, from confessional singer/songwriter to winding, hallucinatory, stream-of-conscious narratives. As a vocalist, he broke down the notions that in order to perform, a singer had to have a conventionally good voice, thereby redefining the role of vocalist in popular music. As a musician, he sparked several genres of pop music, including electrified folk-rock and country-rock. And that just touches on the tip of his achievements. Dylan's force was evident during his height of popularity in the '60s -- the Beatles' shift toward introspective songwriting in the mid-'60s never would have happened without him -- but his influence echoed throughout several subsequent generations. Many of his songs became popular standards, and his best albums were undisputed classics of the rock & roll canon. Dylan's influence throughout folk music was equally powerful, and he marks a pivotal turning point in its 20th century evolution, signifying when the genre moved away from traditional songs and toward personal songwriting. Even when his sales declined in the '80s and '90s, Dylan's presence was calculable.

For a figure of such substantial influence, Dylan came from humble beginnings. Born in Duluth, MN, Bob Dylan (b. Robert Allen Zimmerman, May 24, 1941) was raised in Hibbing, MN, from the age of six. As a child he learned how to play guitar and harmonica, forming a rock & roll band called the Golden Chords when he was in high school. Following his graduation in 1959, he began studying art at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis. While at college, he began performing folk songs at coffeehouses under the name Bob Dylan, taking his last name from the poet Dylan Thomas. Already inspired by Hank Williams and Woody Guthrie, Dylan began listening to blues while at college, and the genre weaved its way into his music. Dylan spent the summer of 1960 in Denver, where he met bluesman Jesse Fuller, the inspiration behind the songwriter's signature harmonica rack and guitar. By the time he returned to Minneapolis in the fall, he had grown substantially as a performer and was determined to become a professional musician.

Dylan made his way to New York City in January of 1961, immediately making a substantial impression on the folk community of Greenwich Village. He began visiting his idol Guthrie in the hospital, where he was slowly dying from Huntington's chorea. Dylan also began performing in coffeehouses, and his rough charisma won him a significant following. In April, he opened for John Lee Hooker at Gerde's Folk City. Five months later, Dylan performed another concert at the venue, which was reviewed positively by Robert Shelton in the New York Times. Columbia A&R man John Hammond sought out Dylan on the strength of the review, and signed the songwriter in the fall of 1961. Hammond produced Dylan's eponymous debut album (released in March 1962), a collection of folk and blues standards that boasted only two original songs. Over the course of 1962, Dylan began to write a large batch of original songs, many of which were political protest songs in the vein of his Greenwich contemporaries. These songs were showcased on his second album, The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan. Before its release, Freewheelin' went through several incarnations. Dylan had recorded a rock & roll single, "Mixed Up Confusion," at the end of 1962, but his manager, Albert Grossman, made sure the record was deleted because he wanted to present Dylan as an acoustic folky. Similarly, several tracks with a full backing band that were recorded for Freewheelin' were scrapped before the album's release. Furthermore, several tracks recorded for the album -- including "Talking John Birch Society Blues" -- were eliminated from the album before its release.

Comprised entirely of original songs, The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan made a huge impact in the U.S. folk community, and many performers began covering songs from the album. Of these, the most significant were Peter, Paul & Mary, who made "Blowin' in the Wind" into a huge pop hit in the summer of 1963 and thereby made Bob Dylan into a recognizable household name. On the strength of Peter, Paul & Mary's cover and his opening gigs for popular folky Joan Baez, Freewheelin' became a hit in the fall of 1963, climbing to number 23 on the charts. By that point, Baez and Dylan had become romantically involved, and she was beginning to record his songs frequently. Dylan was writing just as fast.

By the time The Times They Are A-Changin' was released in early 1964, Dylan's songwriting had developed far beyond that of his New York peers. Heavily inspired by poets like Arthur Rimbaud and John Keats, his writing took on a more literate and evocative quality. Around the same time, he began to expand his musical boundaries, adding more blues and R&B influences to his songs. Released in the summer of 1964, Another Side of Bob Dylan made these changes evident. However, Dylan was moving faster than his records could indicate. By the end of 1964, he had ended his romantic relationship with Baez and had begun dating a former model named Sara Lowndes, whom he subsequently married. Simultaneously, he gave the Byrds "Mr. Tambourine Man" to record for their debut album. The Byrds gave the song a ringing, electric arrangement, but by the time the single became a hit, Dylan was already exploring his own brand of folk-rock. Inspired by the British Invasion, particularly the Animals' version of "House of the Rising Sun," Dylan recorded a set of original songs backed by a loud rock & roll band for his next album. While Bringing It All Back Home (March 1965) still had a side of acoustic material, it made clear that Dylan had turned his back on folk music. For the folk audience, the true breaking point arrived a few months after the album's release, when he played the Newport Folk Festival supported by the Paul Butterfield Blues Band. The audience greeted him with vicious derision, but he had already been accepted by the growing rock & roll community. Dylan's spring tour of Britain was the basis for D.A. Pennebaker's documentary Don't Look Back, a film that captures the songwriter's edgy charisma and charm.

Dylan made his breakthrough to the pop audience in the summer of 1965, when "Like a Rolling Stone" became a number two hit. Driven by a circular organ riff and a steady beat, the six-minute single broke the barrier of the three-minute pop single. Dylan became the subject of innumerable articles, and his lyrics became the subject of literary analyses across the U.S. and U.K. Well over 100 artists covered his songs between 1964 and 1966; the Byrds and the Turtles, in particular, had big hits with his compositions. Highway 61 Revisited, his first full-fledged rock & roll album, became a Top Ten hit shortly after its summer 1965 release. "Positively 4th Street" and "Rainy Day Women #12 & 35" became Top Ten hits in the fall of 1965 and spring of 1966, respectively. Following the May 1966 release of the double-album Blonde on Blonde, he had sold over ten million records around the world.

During the fall of 1965, Dylan hired the Hawks, formerly Ronnie Hawkins' backing group, as his touring band. The Hawks, who changed their name to the Band in 1968, would become Dylan's most famous backing band, primarily because of their intuitive chemistry and "wild, thin mercury sound," but also because of their British tour in the spring of 1966. The tour was the first time Britain had heard the electric Dylan, and their reaction was disagreeable and violent. At the Manchester concert (long mistakenly identified as the show from Londonís Royal Albert Hall), an audience member called Dylan "Judas," inspiring a positively vicious version of "Like a Rolling Stone" from Dylan and the band. The performance was immortalized on countless bootleg albums (an official release finally surfaced in 1998), and it indicates the intensity of Dylan in the middle of 1966. He had assumed control of Pennebaker's second Dylan documentary, Eat the Document, and was under deadline to complete his book Tarantula, as well as record a new record. Following the British tour, he returned to America.

On July 29, 1966, he was injured in a motorcycle accident outside of his home in Woodstock, NY, suffering injuries to his neck vertebrae and a concussion. Details of the accident remain elusive -- he was reportedly in critical condition for a week and had amnesia -- and some biographers have questioned its severity, but the event was a pivotal turning point in his career. After the accident, Dylan became a recluse, disappearing into his home in Woodstock and raising his family with his wife, Sara. After a few months, he retreated with the Band to a rented house, subsequently dubbed Big Pink, in West Saugerties to record a number of demos. For several months, Dylan and the Band recorded an enormous amount of material, ranging from old folk, country, and blues songs to newly written originals. The songs indicated that Dylan's songwriting had undergone a metamorphosis, becoming streamlined and more direct. Similarly, his music had changed, owing less to traditional rock & roll, and demonstrating heavy country, blues, and traditional folk influences. None of the Big Pink recordings were intended to be released, but tapes from the sessions were circulated by Dylan's music publisher with the intent of generating cover versions. Copies of these tapes, as well as other songs, were available on illegal bootleg albums by the end of the '60s; it was the first time that bootleg copies of unreleased recordings became widely circulated. Portions of the tapes were officially released in 1975 as the double-album The Basement Tapes.

While Dylan was in seclusion, rock & roll had become heavier and artier in the wake of the psychedelic revolution. When Dylan returned with John Wesley Harding in December of 1967, its quiet, country ambience was a surprise to the general public, but it was a significant hit, peaking at number two in the U.S. and number one in the U.K. Furthermore, the record arguably became the first significant country-rock record to be released, setting the stage for efforts by the Byrds and the Flying Burrito Brothers later in 1969. Dylan followed his country inclinations on his next album, 1969's Nashville Skyline, which was recorded in Nashville with several of the country industry's top session men. While the album was a hit, spawning the Top Ten single "Lay Lady Lay," it was criticized in some quarters for uneven material. The mixed reception was the beginning of a full-blown backlash that arrived with the double-album Self Portrait. Released early in June of 1970, the album was a hodgepodge of covers, live tracks, re-interpretations, and new songs greeted with negative reviews from all quarters of the press. Dylan followed the album quickly with New Morning, which was hailed as a comeback.

Following the release of New Morning, Dylan began to wander restlessly. He moved back to Greenwich Village, he finally published Tarantula in November of 1970, and he performed at the Concert for Bangladesh in August 1971. During 1972, he began his acting career by playing Alias in Sam Peckinpah's Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, which was released in 1973. He also wrote the soundtrack for the film, which featured "Knockin' on Heaven's Door," his biggest hit since "Lay Lady Lay." The Pat Garrett soundtrack was the final record released under his Columbia contract before he moved to David Geffen's fledgling Asylum Records. As retaliation, Columbia assembled Dylan, a collection of Self Portrait outtakes, for release at the end of 1973. Dylan only recorded two albums -- including 1974's Planet Waves, coincidentally his first number one album -- before he moved back to Columbia. The Band supported Dylan on Planet Waves and its accompanying tour, which became the most successful tour in rock & roll history; it was captured on 1974's double-live album Before the Flood.

Dylan's 1974 tour was the beginning of a comeback culminated by 1975's Blood on the Tracks. Largely inspired by the disintegration of his marriage, Blood on the Tracks was hailed as a return to form by critics and it became his second number one album. After jamming with folkies in Greenwich Village, Dylan decided to launch a gigantic tour, loosely based on traveling medicine shows. Lining up an extensive list of supporting musicians -- including Joan Baez, Joni Mitchell, Rambling Jack Elliott, Arlo Guthrie, Mick Ronson, Roger McGuinn, and poet Allen Ginsberg -- Dylan dubbed the tour the Rolling Thunder Revue and set out on the road in the fall of 1975. For the next year, the Rolling Thunder Revue toured on and off, with Dylan filming many of the concerts for a future film. During the tour, Desire was released to considerable acclaim and success, spending five weeks on the top of the charts. Throughout the Rolling Thunder Revue, Dylan showcased "Hurricane," a protest song he had written about boxer Rubin Carter, who had been unjustly imprisoned for murder. The live album Hard Rain was released at the end of the tour. Dylan released Renaldo and Clara, a four-hour film based on the Rolling Thunder tour, to poor reviews in early 1978.

Early in 1978, Dylan set out on another extensive tour, this time backed by a band that resembled a Las Vegas lounge band. The group was featured on the 1978 album Street Legal and the 1979 live album At Budokan. At the conclusion of the tour in late 1978, Dylan announced that he was a born-again Christian, and he launched a series of Christian albums that following summer with Slow Train Coming. Though the reviews were mixed, the album was a success, peaking at number three and going platinum. His supporting tour for Slow Train Coming featured only his new religious material, much to the bafflement of his long-term fans. Two other religious albums -- Saved (1980) and Shot of Love (1981) -- followed, both to poor reviews. In 1982, Dylan traveled to Israel, sparking rumors that his conversion to Christianity was short-lived. He returned to secular recording with 1983's Infidels, which was greeted with favorable reviews.

Dylan returned to performing in 1984, releasing the live album Real Live at the end of the year. Empire Burlesque followed in 1985, but its odd mix of dance tracks and rock & roll won few fans. However, the five-album/triple-disc retrospective box set Biograph appeared that same year to great acclaim. In 1986, Dylan hit the road with Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers for a successful and acclaimed tour, but his album that year, Knocked Out Loaded, was received poorly. The following year, he toured with the Grateful Dead as his backing band; two years later, the souvenir album Dylan & the Dead appeared.

In 1988, Dylan embarked on what became known as "The Never-Ending Tour" -- a constant stream of shows that ran on and off into the late '90s. That same year, he released Down in the Groove, an album largely comprised of covers. The Never-Ending Tour received far stronger reviews than Down in the Groove, but 1989's Oh Mercy was his most acclaimed album since 1974's Blood on the Tracks. However, his 1990 follow-up, Under the Red Sky, was received poorly, especially when compared to the enthusiastic reception for the 1991 box set The Bootleg Series, Vols. 1-3 (Rare & Unreleased), a collection of previously unreleased outtakes and rarities.

For the remainder of the '90s, Dylan divided his time between live concerts and painting. In 1992, he returned to recording with Good As I Been to You, an acoustic collection of traditional folk songs. It was followed in 1993 by another folk album, World Gone Wrong, which won the Grammy for Best Traditional Folk Album. After the release of World Gone Wrong, Dylan released a greatest-hits album and a live record.

Dylan released Time Out of Mind, his first album of original material in seven years, in the fall of 1997. Time Out of Mind received his strongest reviews in years and unexpectedly debuted in the Top Ten. Its success sparked a revival of interest in Dylan -- he appeared on the cover of Newsweek and his concerts became sell-outs. Early in 1998, Time Out of Mind received three Grammy Awards -- Album of the Year, Best Contemporary Folk Album and Best Male Rock Vocal. Another album of original material, Love and Theft, followed in 2001. Soon after its release, Dylan announced that he was making his own film, to star Jeff Bridges, Penelope Cruz, John Goodman, Val Kilmer, and many more. The accompanying soundtrack, Masked and Anonymous, was released in July 2003.

 
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Old 01-16-2007, 11:57 AM   #85
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still not sure why im bothering to illustrate this point

 
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Old 01-16-2007, 12:50 PM   #86
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lol at izzle's posts..

umm don't really know what to say, the music, the man... untouchable and all said before... i've read a few dylan bio's and they blow my mind, some of the most hilarious/absurd/assholeish stories i've read about anyone. one of my good friends has basically an encyclopedic/historian's knowledge of everything dylan, and i never tire of some of the tales.. the guy just had a level of detached fuck you cool that nobody may ever reach again..

 
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Old 01-18-2007, 02:28 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzle
i have heard some of his albums. blood on the tracks, rolling stone, time out of mind, love and theft most recently, and other songs. let's make it clear that i like dylan, he's certainly a genius and his lyrics are indisputably some of the best ever. i also appreciate that being a man of his own time and place, his influences are different to someone like bc's. but whereas dylan was more of an interpreter of traditional music (that have been repeated and rehashed ceaselessly since their inception, with little innovation or new creative approach), there are modern bands and songwriters who can take old music, modern genres and even invent genres and still throw them at you in a different way. i use the pumpkins as a prime example of this. the pumpkins' songs reference old and recent music, yet they sound like nothing else by anyone, virtually no two of their songs even sound anything alike, sometimes their songs aren't even about anything at all, and yet a they somehow make a more profound impact on some people's lives than any other band/songwriter. enough impact to make them type bombastic stupid shit like this. so what's the secret ingredient? billy probably said it best himself: "good music obliterates any concept of genre". its not hard to try doing things differently, and its infinitely more rewarding when you do. that's a musical virtue i think dylan, like a good 90% of musicians worldwide, neglect, and probably always will.

last i'm saying on this.
lol, you're so fucking gay, Izzle.

 
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Old 01-18-2007, 02:32 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pale blue eyes
As for Dylan, you are misinformed about the Newport show. All that booing him off the stage stuff is myth, and he performed an electric and acoustic set for that entire tour. That being said, plugging in at a folk festival was still a pretty big fuck you to a large portion of his audience and I don't think Corgan has done anything that has come close to that.
Corgan's never given a big fuck you to a large portion of his audience? ... Have you been under a fucking rock for the past 10 or so years?

 
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Old 01-18-2007, 02:33 AM   #89
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the title of this thread is wrong

 
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Old 01-18-2007, 02:39 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Deadite
Corgan's never given a big fuck you to a large portion of his audience? ... Have you been under a fucking rock for the past 10 or so years?
The difference here is that Dylan did it intentionally.

 
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