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Old 12-11-2006, 02:27 PM   #1
BlueStar
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Red face The War on Christmas?

Last year, particularly, due in no small part to Fox News and Bill O'Reilly, there was a lot of talk about a "War on Christmas". And now Sea-Tac has removed its Christmas trees...

Christmas controversies
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Christmas controversy refers to publicized controversy surrounding the public acknowledgement or celebration of the Christmas holiday in media, advertising, government, and other secular environments.

In past centuries, Christmas–related controversy was mainly restricted to a public focus on secular Christmas themes such as Santa Claus rather than what was glorified as the "reason for the Season"—the birth of Jesus. A symbolic issue from these former controversies was usage of the term "Xmas", which many allege is a conscious attempt at removing the term "Christ" from Christmas. ...

In present–day United States and Canada, it is often suggested that mention of the term "Christmas" in public venues such as government, media, and retail, is being strenuously avoided and replaced with a generic term, usually "holiday", while at the same time, specific, though non-religious Christmas customs such as Santa Claus and Christmas trees are often prominently showcased. Supporters of this effort often claim that the goal of this euphemistic terminology is to not offend non-Christians, while opponents report that since 80 percent of non–Christian US citizens celebrate Christmas, and a total of 96 percent of Americans celebrate Christmas, usage of the term "holiday" instead of "Christmas" is an effort to avoid connotations with Christianity or Jesus, rather than to "*******" non–Christians.

The term often associated with the most recent controversy is "the War on Christmas", a term that was popularized in conservative media in 1999, but is now just as popular in mainstream media.


The latest assault on Christmas...

Seattle airport removes Christmas trees after rabbi threatens lawsuit
December 10, 2006
Chicago Tribune
http://www.chicagotribune.com/travel...l=chi-news-hed

All nine Christmas trees have been removed from Seattle-Tacoma International Airport instead of adding a giant menorah to the holiday display as a rabbi had requested.

Maintenance workers boxed up the trees during the graveyard shift Saturday, when airport bosses believed few people would notice.

"We decided to take the trees down because we didn't want to be exclusive," said airport spokeswoman Terri-Ann Betancourt. "We're trying to be thoughtful and respectful, and will review policies after the first of the year."

Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky, who made his request weeks ago, said he was appalled by the decision. He had hired a lawyer and threatened to sue if the Port of Seattle did not add the menorah next to the trees, which had been festooned with red ribbons and bows.

"Everyone should have their spirit of the holiday. For many people the trees are the spirit of the holidays, and adding a menorah adds light to the season," said Bogomilsky, who works at Chabad Lubavitch, a Jewish education foundation headquartered in Seattle's University District.


Another one from a couple of weeks ago...

Truce declared in peace wreath battle
November 28, 2006
CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/28/pea....ap/index.html

A subdivision has withdrawn its threat of $25 daily fines against a homeowner who put a Christmas wreath shaped like a peace sign on the front of her home.

Homeowner Lisa Jensen told The Associated Press on Monday that the board of directors of the Loma Linda Homeowners Association had apologized, called the incident a misunderstanding and had withdrawn its request for the wreath's removal.

Jensen was ordered to take the wreath down when some residents in her 200-home subdivision saw it as a protest of the Iraq war. Bob Kearns, president of the board, also said some saw it as a symbol of Satan.

The homeowners' association demanded Jensen remove the wreath from her house, saying it doesn't allow flags or signs that are considered divisive. ...


An opinion piece from last year...

What 'War on Christmas'?
December 10, 2005
The Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120901357.html

I've been hearing about this "War on Christmas," so I headed to the Heritage Foundation the other day for a briefing from one of the defending army's generals: Fox News anchor John Gibson, author of "The War on Christmas: How the Liberal Plot to Ban the Sacred Christian Holiday Is Worse Than You Thought." Gibson -- and Bill O'Reilly, his comrade in the Fox-hole -- see this as a two-front war: Assaulting Christmas from the government end, they say, are pusillanimous school principals, politically corrected city managers and their ilk, bullied by the ACLU types into extirpating any trace of Christmas from the public square. Battering the holiday from the private sector are infidel retailers such as Target and Wal-Mart, which balk at using the C-word in their advertising in favor of such secularist slogans as "Happy Holidays."

The assault, Gibson told the Heritage crowd, has reached a "shocking level this year." ...

This is the time of year, though, when those of us who aren't Christian, or who don't celebrate Christmas, most feel our minority status. I've experienced this especially acutely since my children started to look longingly at shopping mall Santas (Santa's a nice guy, honey, but he's not for us) and ask why there are so few menorahs or dreidels among the reindeer and Christmas trees. (How to break this gently? Their team has a lot more players.) ...

But there is an ugly, bullying aspect to this dispute, in which the pro-Christmas forces are not only asking, reasonably, that their religion be treated with equal status and respect but in which they are attacking legitimate efforts at inclusivity. It's this sense of aggrieved victimhood that confuses me: What, exactly, is so threatening about calling the school holiday a winter break rather than Christmas vacation? ...

This has reached its most imposition-of-Sharia-law-like level of intolerance in the campaign to cow stores into saying Christmas. O'Reilly, escalating his "Christmas Under Siege" campaign, has posted a list of naughty and nice retailers. The American Family Association goes further, calling for a boycott of stores -- it's targeted Target -- that fail to use the word Christmas in their advertising or in-store promotions. "Target doesn't want to offend a small minority who oppose Christmas," says AFA's chairman, Donald Wildmon. "But they don't mind offending Christians who celebrate the birth of Christ."

Really? I've just gone on the Target Web site and plugged Christmas into my product search. "We found 39,197 match(es) for 'Christmas' at Target," it reported. How offensive is that?

 
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Old 12-11-2006, 02:40 PM   #2
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I'm really sick of hearing about this non-issue.

 
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Old 12-11-2006, 03:27 PM   #3
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it's fucking stupid. it's not a "holiday tree" it's a christmas tree! seson's greetings is a bullshit phrase, it's merry christmas!

 
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Old 12-11-2006, 03:33 PM   #4
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we need a continental-scale natural disaster to remind people of life's real priorities

 
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Old 12-11-2006, 03:33 PM   #5
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Are Fox still on that stupid track? I guess they're hoping everyone forgot about their store selling 'holiday ornaments' and talking about 'holiday trees'

 
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Old 12-11-2006, 04:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayfuck
I'm really sick of hearing about this non-issue.
I'm really sick of people suing over non-issues

 
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Old 12-11-2006, 06:49 PM   #7
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the other day I told my Indian doctor "Have a good Christmas"

Man did I feel like an idiot.

He could be Christian for all I know but I still felt like an idiot.

 
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayfuck
I'm really sick of hearing about this non-issue.
Seriously.

The extent of the "War on Christmas" is when they do stuff like calling Christmas Trees "Holiday Trees". Even though I don't believe in god, I find this dumb. Everyone should know why people get trees.

However, retailers and the like have every right to say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas". They do not know what religion their customer is or is not conforming to. Just because it's Christmas doesn't mean every fucking person that walks in the store is of the Christian faith. They could be Jewish, Muslim, atheist, etc. etc.

 
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Effloresce
Seriously.

The extent of the "War on Christmas" is when they do stuff like calling Christmas Trees "Holiday Trees". Even though I don't believe in god, I find this dumb. Everyone should know why people get trees.

However, retailers and the like have every right to say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas". They do not know what religion their customer is or is not conforming to. Just because it's Christmas doesn't mean every fucking person that walks in the store is of the Christian faith. They could be Jewish, Muslim, atheist, etc. etc.
At least the "War on Christmas" trumpeters aren't filing lawsuits, just asking for boycotts. It's the fivolous lawsuits that I find amazing.

 
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:27 PM   #10
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I can't help but roll my eyes when I pass a church and they have a sign up that says "Keep Christ in Christmas".

edit: I KNOW the point of Christmas is Christ. That's what I'm saying. They are overreacting. Christ being taken out of Christmas will not happen (I'm looking at you, spfission). Christmas is still about Christ and always will be, don't worry Christians!

Last edited by Effloresce : 12-12-2006 at 01:13 AM.

 
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Effloresce
I can't help but roll my eyes when I pass a church and they have a sign up that says "Keep Christ in Christmas".
yeah, it's crazy when those churches are interested in Christ or the celebration of his birth. those whacky Xians!

 
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:30 PM   #12
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See my edit above

 
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Old 12-11-2006, 09:39 PM   #13
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Person #1: I am so offended by the fact that the local department store is having a "Christmas sale." Even though I myself am most likely not a member of any non-Christian religion, I think that if I were I would feel uncomfortable enjoying all those bargains in the name of Christ. We must change this immediately, with lawsuits if we have to! This horrible discriminatory injustice must be rectified!

Person #1 begins frothing at the mouth

Person #2: I think that's totally pointless. If someone's offended by calling Christmas "Christmas," then let it be their problem and not mine. I don't think we should change things just because a few sensitive souls want attention.

Person #1: Dude, why are you making such a big deal out of nothing? Its totally not even that important.


I'll grant this is nowhere as big an issue as the Fox News crew likes to say it is, but that doesn't mean they created the issue out of whole cloth or that they're the driving force behind the whole thing. The PC patrol waving around their lawsuits are the ones overreacting.

 
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son
I'm really sick of people suing over non-issues
Hear hear

 
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:18 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStar
Jensen was ordered to take the wreath down when some residents in her 200-home subdivision saw it as a protest of the Iraq war. Bob Kearns, president of the board, also said some saw it as a symbol of Satan.

The homeowners' association demanded Jensen remove the wreath from her house, saying it doesn't allow flags or signs that are considered divisive. ...


 
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:14 AM   #16
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jews are responsible for all the christmas controversy in the world.

 
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:30 AM   #17
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let's just give them december and then the rest of the year they have to shut the fuck up

 
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Old 12-12-2006, 03:01 AM   #18
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ban christmas

 
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Old 12-12-2006, 03:46 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.
jews are responsible for all the christmas controversy in the world.
this reminded me of something...(looking at your location)

I remember driving through Gladstone the day before easter. I turned off barry road. I go by a church and see three big wooden crosses up on a hill. And on it were three men in loin type cloths acting out the post crucifixion scene. Fake blood and all. I was curious so i park and walked up to where these people are gathered. They were taking pictures and I heard one of the guys playing Jesus up there let out this loud moan, mildly convulse, then dropped his head and died. I look over and see this woman eating a hot dog, and the kid had pop corn. Her kid was like...look mommy jesus died.

 
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Old 12-12-2006, 05:22 AM   #20
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I think it's stupid becuase I actually enjoy the surface aesthetics of xmas more than the meaning behind it

 
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Old 12-12-2006, 05:56 AM   #21
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i hope next we ban reindeer imagery because i'm pretty sure the baby jesus used to ride reindeer

 
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Old 12-12-2006, 10:56 AM   #22
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if christmas offends you then you're a douche. if x-mas offends you, you are also a douche. are people actually suing over this? hopefully your courts will completely ignore them and possibly make a little fun of them too. it gets so stupid when both 'sides' are wrong. just shut up. the ones who don't give shit are the ones who are right. if christmas was actually about christ noone would be celebrating it in the first place. this is just conservatives laying out bait and liberals completely falling for it

at least that's what it seems like to a euro guy like me

 
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Old 12-12-2006, 11:07 AM   #23
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Christmas wins...

Seattle airport bringing back Christmas trees
December 12
CNN

SEATAC, Washington (AP) -- Christmas trees are going back up at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport.

Pat Davis, president of the Port of Seattle commission, which directs airport operations, said late Monday that maintenance staff would restore the 14 plastic holiday trees, festooned with red ribbons and bows, that were removed over the weekend because of a rabbi's complaint that holiday decor did not ******* a menorah.

Airport managers believed that if they allowed the addition of an 8-foot-tall menorah to the display, as Seattle Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky had requested, they would also have to display symbols of other religions and cultures, which was not something airport workers had time for during the busiest travel season of the year, Airport Director Mark Reis said earlier Monday. (Watch why the airport yanked the trees and what travelers thought about the decisionVideo)

Port officials received word Monday afternoon that Bogomilsky's organization would not file a lawsuit at this time to seek the placement of a menorah, Davis said in a statement.

"Given that, the holiday trees will be replaced as quickly as possible," he said.

Davis added that the rabbi "never asked us to remove the trees; it was the port's decision based on what we knew at the time."

There were no immediate plans to display a menorah, airport spokesman Bob Parker said, saying restoration of the trees was expected to take place overnight Monday.

"A key element in moving forward will be to work with the rabbi and other members of the community to develop a plan for next year's holiday decorations at the airport," the port statement said.

The rabbi has also offered to give the port an electric menorah to display, said his lawyer, Harvey Grad.

"We are not going to be the instrument by which the port holds Christmas hostage," Grad said, emphasizing the rabbi never sought removal of the trees, but addition of the menorah.

The rabbi had received "all kinds of calls and emails," many of them "odious," Grad said, adding he was "trying to figure out how this is consistent with the spirit of Christmas."

Thirteen trees had sat above foyers that lead outside to the airport drive. The largest tree, which Reis estimated to be 15 or 20 feet tall, was placed in a large lobby near baggage claim for international arrivals.

After the removal, some airline workers decorated ticketing counters with their own miniature Christmas trees.

Customer service agents with Frontier Airlines pooled their money Monday morning to buy four 1-foot-high Christmas trees, which they placed on the airline's ticketing counter. Atop a Delta counter, workers put up a tree several feet tall.

The airlines lease space for ticket counters from the airport, and can display trees there if they want, Reis said.

 
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:59 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by To Starla
this reminded me of something...(looking at your location)

I remember driving through Gladstone the day before easter. I turned off barry road. I go by a church and see three big wooden crosses up on a hill. And on it were three men in loin type cloths acting out the post crucifixion scene. Fake blood and all. I was curious so i park and walked up to where these people are gathered. They were taking pictures and I heard one of the guys playing Jesus up there let out this loud moan, mildly convulse, then dropped his head and died. I look over and see this woman eating a hot dog, and the kid had pop corn. Her kid was like...look mommy jesus died.
hotdogs and popcorn. hahahahaha. were they selling them there?

 
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:09 PM   #25
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The people that get offended by christmas need to realize that christmas has nothing to do with jesus christ. And people who actually think that otherwise are just desperate.

 
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:19 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son
At least the "War on Christmas" trumpeters aren't filing lawsuits, just asking for boycotts. It's the fivolous lawsuits that I find amazing.
They're both as stupid as each other. At least a judge can smack down a lawsuit, if these people with influence start creating boycotts for idiotic reasons there's no real accountability

 
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:43 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debaser
The people that get offended by christmas need to realize that christmas has nothing to do with jesus christ.
I'm curious to know more about this.
Please explain.

 
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:58 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeviousJ
They're both as stupid as each other. At least a judge can smack down a lawsuit, if these people with influence start creating boycotts for idiotic reasons there's no real accountability
So what's wrong with boycotts? People are free to shop where they choose

 
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:58 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debaser
The people that get offended by christmas need to realize that christmas has nothing to do with jesus christ. And people who actually think that otherwise are just desperate.
Jesus Christ was born under a Christmas Tree with lights and tinsel in a manger at the North Pole

 
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Old 12-12-2006, 03:01 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HorseflyKing
I'm curious to know more about this.
Please explain.
oh man really

i think you might be retarded

or a teenager

 
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