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Old 12-12-2020, 01:14 AM   #31
Joey Goldberg
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Monuments & Shiny should theoretically sound the same, except with Shiny sounding slightly better because it's got James & Jimmy back in the fold

but it's very much the opposite. It sounds like an AI amalgamation of the absolute worst or lamest aspects of the Pumpkins from some parallel universe where Mellon Collie didn't have any actual feeling, personal message, or truly organic qualities going for it

Monuments is just a fun dumb rock/pop album that some of you take too fucking seriously

 
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Old 12-12-2020, 01:26 AM   #32
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1. Zeitgeist with Stellar and Ma Belle
2. Oceania
3. Cyr
4. Zeitgeist without Stellar and Ma Belle
5. Monuments
6. Teargarden
7. Shiny V1.

 
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Old 12-12-2020, 02:16 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Goldberg View Post
Monuments & Shiny should theoretically sound the same, except with Shiny sounding slightly better because it's got James & Jimmy back in the fold

but it's very much the opposite. It sounds like an AI amalgamation of the absolute worst or lamest aspects of the Pumpkins from some parallel universe where Mellon Collie didn't have any actual feeling, personal message, or truly organic qualities going for it

Monuments is just a fun dumb rock/pop album that some of you take too fucking seriously
Shiny V1 is the sound of a band shoved into the studio in a spontaneous fashion, that haven't played together in nearly 20 years figuring out their chemistry all over again (plus Jeff). With Sympathy was the best track out of them in years, and Marchin' On proved they still had some of the fire. A lot of that record did not work - but I found it a lot of fun to listen to on the basis that it did feel like garage recordings, figuring out what worked and what didn't.

Monuments is a polished turd, the sound of completely safe, boring, Billy imitating the old SP sound but on a surface level only, and if it hadn't been for him recycling The Viper riff from the MCIS/Pastichio sessions for One And All nobody would give a damn about it. It was Billy shitting out a record out of nothing more than habit. Uninspired dreck.

 
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Old 12-12-2020, 02:18 AM   #34
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Tarantula, Pale Horse and Tom Tom are the best songs Bolly has written since Zwan. That's all I got.

 
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Old 12-12-2020, 02:29 AM   #35
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that's the way is better than tarantula

 
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Old 12-12-2020, 02:48 AM   #36
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Cyr- I can understand why someone would greatly prefer the direction of almost any other album on here, but to me, this is the first of the reunion albums that feels fully committed to its sound and is successful in developing it, limited in scope as it is. I really appreciate that quality in Cyr. Even if it has some obvious shortcomings, that feeling of the sound being committed to is a big enough deal to me to make it the best on here by a fair margin. The stretch of songs from Starrburst or whatever to Black Hills really is great, and even the songs I don't like that much (Addrennalynne, Tyger) change the pace up juuuust enough. Wyttchh is the only one here I feel myself souring on after quite a few listens. Fuckin' "Sam Hayne"


Oceania- Loved this when it was brand new, struggle to get through it now. In so many ways, its close to being the type of comeback album people really would have loved, but it just sounds so damn impotent. Plus, there really aren't any standout songs; there is not a single song on here that I think, "Hey, I want to listen to *insert song*"! Every other album on here has that. If I listen to Oceania, it's typically very deliberate and I listen the whole way through... which feels more like a chore each time. It needs James and Jimmy so badly that it hurts.

Shiny- This is so damn patchy with some serious lows, but nothing so terrible that I never want to hear it again. There are a few songs on here that I think are genuinely good, but for such a short album, it does way too much to invite the "turn the album into an EP" thing I tend to do with albums I find to be kind of mediocre...

Zeitgeist- Man, I hate Billy's vocals on this album. There is a hardness/roughness to Zeitgeist as a whole package that just isn't Pumpkins at all. I was 17 and growing up in the rural midwest when this came out, and it seemed like it was directed to the people I went to school with and listened to all that awful post grunge crap that was huge. Something about it really rubs me the wrong way, which is a shame, because, like everyone else says, it might be the most impressive SP album in terms of instrumentation.

Monuments- I am cool with the Pumpkins embracing that shorter album concept. In fact, I think that's kind of a brilliant move on Billy's part. The issue with MTAE is that when you have a 9 song album, and 3 of the songs are good, 3 are completely unremarkable, and 3 are some of the worst, most aggressively awful shit to ever come out from a great band, then... your album sucks. I dig Tiberius, One and All, and Dorian. I cannot believe this thing didn't get slammed worse by reviewers when it came out; it passes the eye test of being a cool album, which Oceania and Zeitgeist did not, but there's way too much to hate on here for such a short album.

Teargarden- fucking clown music.

Last edited by LoveIsSuicide42 : 12-12-2020 at 03:18 AM.

 
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Old 12-12-2020, 03:23 AM   #37
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teargarden is my favorite, i can't make it past 1.5 songs on sears' catalog

everything else has a few good tracks but nothing cohesive enough to represent an album

just my opinion

 
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Old 12-12-2020, 06:52 PM   #38
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Zeitgeist >>>>>> Monuments >> Oceania > Cyr > Shiny >Teargarden


In light of the recent mix, I put Zeitgeist around 7.5/10 or even 8/10. A good deal of it is up there with Machina. Neverlost-Stellar-Ma Belle is fucking sublime. Doomsday, 7 Shades, Bring the Light, and Come On are not quite Zero EP tier, but approaching that direction. Even God + Country is totally decent. Certainly on par with Cyr.

Monuments has at least 2 legitimately good songs (Drum + Fife + take your pick between Tiberius/One and All)

Oceania has Violet Rays. I like this song for some reason, but everything else is deadly fucking boring due to the lack of JC, and I don't think I've listened to it since it came out.

Cyr is to monotonous but has multiple decent songs. The Birch Grove Howard Stern performance kind of caught me off guard.

Shiny is just not worth talking about aside from Silvery Sometimes, which is Monuments tier

I despise Teargarden

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveIsSuicide42 View Post

Teargarden- fucking clown music.

Last edited by killtrocity : 12-12-2020 at 07:02 PM.

 
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Old 12-13-2020, 06:21 AM   #39
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Funnily enough, yesterday I dusted off Oceania (those mp3s can really pick up grime) and listened to most of it on earphones while out walking.

And.. it was great! I really enjoyed it. It's actually a very decent album; Pinwheels / Oceania / Pale Horse has some really interesting things going on, really nice female backing vocals which aren't overdone. In fact, Pale Horse is a pretty great production.

The vocals aren't as "bad" as I remember, in fact these vocals are better in retrospect because now we know how bad and upfront they've become, but in 2012 we only had prior work to compare against. Though they are better sounding here than on Zeitgeist.

Mike Byrne is all over the place but in fairness plays stuff most amateur drummers couldn't do. Strangely the drums are much more present on some tracks, and "boxy" on others.

But overall, it's a really, really good album.

 
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Old 12-13-2020, 10:36 AM   #40
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Oceania
Cyr
Zeitgeist

Everything else is a blob of meh.

 
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Old 12-13-2020, 05:23 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eviltimeban View Post
Funnily enough, yesterday I dusted off Oceania (those mp3s can really pick up grime) and listened to most of it on earphones while out walking.

And.. it was great! I really enjoyed it. It's actually a very decent album; Pinwheels / Oceania / Pale Horse has some really interesting things going on, really nice female backing vocals which aren't overdone. In fact, Pale Horse is a pretty great production.

The vocals aren't as "bad" as I remember, in fact these vocals are better in retrospect because now we know how bad and upfront they've become, but in 2012 we only had prior work to compare against. Though they are better sounding here than on Zeitgeist.

Mike Byrne is all over the place but in fairness plays stuff most amateur drummers couldn't do. Strangely the drums are much more present on some tracks, and "boxy" on others.

But overall, it's a really, really good album.
I listened to it recently too and it is very good. One outstanding song from being great.

MTAE is also very good. Interestingly, it’s part of the Machina mystery. Hey Blue..

 
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Old 12-13-2020, 06:31 PM   #42
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I've literally never listened to Monuments.

I literally like Cyr.



Should I literally listen to Monuments?

 
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Old 12-13-2020, 07:12 PM   #43
Joey Goldberg
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no

you don't deserve it

 
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Old 12-13-2020, 07:24 PM   #44
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Here, let me save Took 30 minutes with the superior version of the experience:


 
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Old 12-13-2020, 08:06 PM   #45
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Old 12-13-2020, 09:58 PM   #46
Joey Goldberg
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GO BACK TO YOUR OWN COUNTRY

 
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Old 12-13-2020, 10:13 PM   #47
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bruh its like that megadeath song, "where i lay my head is home"

 
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Old 12-13-2020, 10:26 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
bruh its like that megadeath song, "where i lay my head is home"
in that case your dad's home is in my lap

 
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Old 12-13-2020, 10:38 PM   #49
Joey Goldberg
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megadeath?

that's a funny way of spelling Super Furry Animals

 
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Old 12-14-2020, 03:52 AM   #50
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1 - cyr - i've come around to this actually, i think it works best if you pretend that bill said "seems like i always choose the wrong songs, so here's a whole bunch, pick your favorite 8-10 and that's an album" -- i'd pick anno santana, birch grove, starrcraft, purple blood, save your tears, adrennalynne, haunted, the hidden sun, schaudenfreud, and i guess minerva. pretty decent actually. it still doesn't touch pre-reunion SP, of course

2 - oceania - violet rays, pale horse, inkless, the celestials are all decent if you're in the right mood. i kind of like pinwheels, one diamond, one heart, wildflower. chimera is basically zwan with nicer guitar tone. quasar is terrible as is panopticon. brutal way to open an album with those two.

3 - monuments - this works best if you don't consider it as a serious album. it'd decent to have on headphones for a workout. there's no authentically moving, heartfelt stuff on here, (which is true for almost all of these songs on all of these albums save for maybe like 3) and i think that's fine, in this version of the pumpkins, with our expectations having been lowered. sonically, it's alright! the production is less terrible than others here, it's decent sounding. that said, beige, beige blows

4 - zeitgeist - my issue is that it is very serious in a way, but lacks the depth or sincerity to make that worthwhile, and it sounds terrible. starz is kinda fun i guess, bring the light has its moments. ma belle, stellar, and zeitgeist, all left off the album, are good songs. this album's production is probably the worst. awful songs: doomsday clock, bleeding the orchid, tarantula, united states

5 - teargarden - mercifully, i haven't listened to any of this past the first few times i heard any of the songs. wow were they bad. thankfully i don't remember any of them. i just went and listened to a few and they were so bad. i didn't put it in last place because it's more forgettable, and thankfully not on spotify. out of sight, out of mind

6 - shiny - wow what a stinker. i hate every song on it. knights of malta is awful. silvery sometimes, for some reason, people like, perhaps because in some ways it might be considered the poor man's 1979. no thank you. travels is the least shitty. solara is just terrible. embarrassing. alienation too. machin' on is real bad. if the MCIS/MACHINA sequel album is them trying to "rock out", and it sounds anything like this, i will vomit. what a bad sound. seek and you shall destroy is stupid. whole album is really. embarrassing. it sucks so bad



-- note, i originally had oceania as 1 and cyr as 2, but switched it. i may be experiencing recency bias, but i don't ever put on oceania, and i do put on cyr when driving these days

Last edited by wHATcOLOR : 12-14-2020 at 03:58 AM.

 
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Old 12-14-2020, 04:05 AM   #51
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You know guys I’m starting to think enjoyment of music is highly subjective...

 
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Old 12-14-2020, 04:47 AM   #52
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i don't get the shiny I hate. maybe the live versions took over the studio tracks in my mind. malta is amazing live, i saw travels and silvery live @ aragon and it was pretty lovely

~~

so they've never done an Oceania song live with Jimmy, right? i wonder why. would it be shitty to mike?

 
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Old 12-14-2020, 06:24 AM   #53
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Oceania
CYR
Zeitgeist
SoSB 1
TbK
Monuments

 
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Old 12-14-2020, 07:03 AM   #54
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Revisiting this:

1. Cyr - I didn't expect this, and I trash talked it a lot prior to release, but with some adjustments it's easily the best Billy / SP album since Machina. If Billy had some better PR & marketing guidance this could've been a solid comeback record.

2. Zeitgeist - Needs the reissue to fix it's problems, but with the extra tracks it is potentially the strongest collection of material post-SP1.

3. Shiny - Tough to put this here because like MTAE it's pretty weak and has bad mixing. However, Silvery Sometimes, With Sympathy are close to old Pumpkins , so it edges out MTAE for me.

4. MTAE - I always liked Being Beige. The rest of the album not so much. The recent low vocal mix improves the album. Tiberius, One And All, Drum & Fife, Dorian are ok.

5. Teargarden - Song For A Son / Widow Wake My Mind are bad, Owata was ruined. The production still sucks and it has Byrne on drums. That said, Tom Tom, Lightning Strikes, Cottonwood... there are some redeemable tracks.

6. Oceania - I cannot connect with this album at all. It has all the elements of a classic Pumpkins album, but something about it is so neutered and forced. It amazes me it has so many fans.

 
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Old 12-14-2020, 07:59 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
I've literally never listened to Monuments.

I literally like Cyr.



Should I literally listen to Monuments?
If WPCs music and life in the SP2 era is your favourite sitcom/soap opera then it's an essential part of the storyline.

I suppose it would lose some of it's impact today though, without the relative excitement and high expectations post-Oceania.

 
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Old 12-14-2020, 08:45 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Goldberg View Post
Monuments & Shiny should theoretically sound the same, except with Shiny sounding slightly better because it's got James & Jimmy back in the fold
I'm going to commit a bit of heresy here but T LEE is a much better drummer than Jimmy for what WPC has been trying to do post Oceania. Shiny 1 would be better with T LEE. Cyr would be leagues better with T LEE.

(I know T LEE staying on and being in SP was prob not a possibility)

 
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Old 12-14-2020, 10:02 AM   #57
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T LEE or T LEE ROBOT SAMPLES?

 
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Old 12-14-2020, 12:24 PM   #58
Joey Goldberg
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he would be better if only for the fact Bill wouldn't feel so comfortable sabotaging his drum tracks after he'd recorded them

 
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Old 12-15-2020, 06:11 PM   #59
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My ranking

1 - Cyr
2 - SAOSBNFPENISVOL1

In my mind, Zeitgeist is no more SP than mstos, in some ways in fact, less so

Meanwhile, Teargarden —> MTAE = big willie solo (with guests), and i am frankly not even interested in big willie solo enough to even be able to care enough to try and decide which of these is worse. They all have ok songs, they all sound like shit in different ways

But at the end of the day im an SP fan more than a big willie fan or even a zwan bc/JC fan. So for me it doesn’t matter what he plays live or what he wants to call it, e.g., with billy corgan of, smashing pumpkins has gotta have at least 3/4 original members to count. And Cyr is far and away better than the rick Rubin one, which sucks ass as both a record or an ep, doesn’t matter, only meadow goats ranks

 
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Old 12-15-2020, 06:16 PM   #60
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And the video for meadow goats is pretty sweet u gotta admit, lil big willie in his sillie bunny jammies etc jimmy gets zapped by those tall whites doing like vr on their heads or whatever

Damn if i woke up and saw some tall whites and i was jimmy man that would be weird

 
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