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#1 |
seasonal depression
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: cafe de la danse
Posts: 11,824
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![]() for some reason I have the SAOSB vinyl, so I listened thru today with a newfound state of mind, to try to appreciate what we do have in the record:
- literally felt myself gag upon hearing the oh-woahs right at the start of the record. cherub rock snare roll to this. jesus. - drums sound way more natural and full here vs AMM, you can hear the cymbals and toms resonate properly - the songs are honestly not bad (or at least i am trying to convince myself such) - "row like a felon, drown like a captain's son" legit gave me goosebumps - the balance between rockers and soft songs is great, but i cannot shake or stand how artificial the slow songs feel, like the drums feel so gridded and sterile, there's no organic space in the tracks, it feels like i've been sitting in a studio all day, it doesn't really present a soundscape to get lost in, it's just A Song performed and mixed To Satisfaction. - it just feels so sterile and corporate now. we are making a Smashing Pumpkins TM record. every single song on MCIS has a completely different atmosphere and feel but everything from ZG onward feels quite literally like i'm sitting in the same boring recording studio - stop trying to sound like a foo fighters record. there are many good songs, and many songs i think i could like if they didn't sound so fucking generic. this is the smashing pumpkins!! ultimately though, bad production and lame choices aside, the songs at their core may have been good all along. not you know literally siamese dream, but very good for a post-reunion band. if we'd take them more seriously we'd enjoy them more. we love ruby yet deride travels. |
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#2 |
Minion of Satan
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: An oasis of horror in a desert of boredom
Posts: 8,167
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![]() Travels is a good example of a simple song that would have been elevated by the old band by the use of interesting/inventive sounds and production. Like why isn’t there trippy bullshit all over travels. To me, that’s the different between listening to a song a couple times and going “huh, not a bad song,” and a song that i feel i could live a whole life inside of, like porcelina
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#3 |
Demi-God
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Posts: 280
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![]() I've tried over and over since it came out, but just can't get into Shiny... probably my least favorite since SP came back. Give me Zeitgeist or Teargarden anytime, over Shiny.
The return of Chamberlin should have been more memorable. I don't like it tonally. Harsh, sterile, dull. ![]() |
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#4 |
Apocalyptic Poster
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: California
Posts: 2,325
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![]() Appreciate the inspiration to do as such - will do and will report back in.
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#5 |
Demi-God
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Posts: 270
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![]() Knights of Malta is one of the most cringy SP songs to me. Can't do that song at all.
Silvery Sometimes is a pretty nice 1979 clone but I can't see past how obviously 'that' it is. Travels has a nice feeling at times but drags so much. Solara feels worse now upon reflection since we've had more of those types of tunes. Alienation I didn't get into for a while, I kinda dig it now but again it drags. Marchin' On is pretty badass. Shattering fast I'm glass I'm glass. With Sympathy is probably an SP2 highlight. Super gorgeous song. Zwan/Stellar/Ma Bella kinda thing which I love. Seek and You Shall Destroy is pretty fun, the complex arrangement of the chorus is nice |
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#6 |
Minion of Satan
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Posts: 6,084
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![]() Was a disappointment then and still is. With Sympathy is top tier though. Silvery was decent as a 1979 inspired thing. AMM is basically part 2 of this album.
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#7 |
Demi-God
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Posts: 385
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![]() Shiny1 is a very mixed bag, but that is okay, it shows how the band was figuring out who they could be now.
I agree with OP that the backing vox in Knights is one of the biggest wtf moments in Pumpkin history, why on earth not go with the army of backing singers already appearing on the track for those whoa's? "Silvery Sometimes" is clearly the one song that is actually about D'arcy(it's all but one) and the bands relationship with its fans. I disagree that it should be a 1979 clone, if anything that would be about the production choices, which are the kind of production choices I would prefer the band make more often. I like the melodies of this one. "Marchin' On" suprises everyone by showing that Corgan actually can access his 90's singing voice and that the band briefly delivered all of their "Machina" era fury. Writing from an actually grown up perspective really suits Corgan and "With Sympathy" is the clear standout, related to songs like like "Birch Grove" from CYR or "Archer" from Ogilala. Again something that would not have been out of place on a fifth Zwan album - in which case the instrumentation would've been more interesting. |
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#8 |
Demi-God
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Posts: 270
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![]() no matter what you do with the whoas you still have to content with 'we're gonna ride the rainbow, we're gonna fly forever'. song is too cursed for redemption xD
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#9 |
Apocalyptic Poster
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: vortex of lost souls
Posts: 2,155
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![]() Knights is top 5 all time worst Pumpkins tunes easily - the whoa's, the riding rainbows, the production, entire thing is dreadful esp as an opener. As bad/tasteless as WWMM. Only positive is that it's memorable rather than a lot of ATUM/Cyr which is just nothingness
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#10 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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Posts: 2,518
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![]() Silvery and Travels are recorded to a loop. Jimmy isn't playing through the songs.
Same goes for a lot of ATUM and a few on AMM. This is really something they need to stop doing. |
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#11 |
Minion of Satan
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: up a tree
Posts: 7,777
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![]() Have you got proof of that? I remember reading somewhere that those are just straight through takes, but I really can’t bother with finding said quote.
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#12 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
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Posts: 1,924
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![]() Quote:
Ram,.my boy, i feel.you. Billy still writes good songs but they mess it upnin the studio with billys,jims and howards ideas and soundchoices. This is the only problem. And of vourse his singing style....which when i listen to pentagrams and mixed and sung with devotion i still like. Even Atum had great songs, but the production destroys it |
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#13 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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Posts: 1,924
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#14 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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Posts: 1,924
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#15 | |
seasonal depression
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: cafe de la danse
Posts: 11,824
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![]() Quote:
i get that sense a lot recently. either his timing / restraint is so good now that he's able to play the same exact pattern dead on for 3 mins straight or they're just looping it. but i don't see why that's the desired effect, anyway - throw some ghost notes in there, do a lil fill, how does it make the song better if the drums are looped or completely indistinguishable from a loop? |
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#16 |
seasonal depression
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: cafe de la danse
Posts: 11,824
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![]() must spread rep @brothahi ++++
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#17 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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Posts: 2,518
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#18 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
![]() Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 33,238
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![]() they're not loops ya doofuses
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#19 |
Minion of Satan
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: up a tree
Posts: 7,777
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#20 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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Posts: 1,924
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![]() Loops are a common modern thing nowadays.
I have no problems jim / bill using them as long they serve the song |
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#21 |
Demi-God
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Posts: 307
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![]() I found I liked this record a bit more than I thought I did when I revisited it after AMM came out. It's still nowhere near the classic albums, but overall it's somewhere in the middle of anything post-2000. Calling it a disappointment doesn't seem quite fair, because it did still end up being what we knew it was going in: a pretty simple record of the band testing the waters recording together after a long hiatus for most of the members. Plus, there are enough positive moments to yield some optimism. There are points where the band feels like they still have "it." Overall it's just okay, but I'm glad the record exists.
Knights of Malta is a pretty goofy song but it feels like it's sort of tongue in cheek? I liked it more after hearing it live in 2019. The woah-oh-oh's are pretty cringe, but I like the chorus and the solo is pretty unique. It's cringe, but I still don't see it as something I want to skip. 6/10 Silvery Sometimes is a great single and definitely worthy of the band. The melodies are really strong. Super catchy and I played it a ton when it was new. Doesn't quite have the huge chorus that blows you away, but each little part has a catchiness to it and it's just a really tightly written, well done song. 8.5 /10 Travels is a big missed opportunity, as others have said. The drums are infuriating. I remember some of the synth parts were played with guitar live, and it sounded SO much better with a guitar solo in place of the synth solo. It feels longer than it actually is, but I do get a very Pumpkins mood from it nonetheless, despite its flaws. It makes me feel something in the ballpark of Rhinoceros, but it's not nearly as good. 6/10 Solara is perhaps the worst of the chuggy rock songs they've made in the last 6 years. The energy it conjures feels very uneven to me. Right when the song starts going off, it pulls back and gets boring and just repeats itself. The bridge is pretty cool, but there's just something missing to push this one to the next level. It's a song that tries to feel like a big rock anthem, and it even kinda reminds me a bit of Bullet as far as SP singles goes, but that song has such infectious, memorable lyrics and vocal delivery that carries it through its various ebbs and flows, and Solara is pretty damn lame in that department. There's nothing holding the song together and turning it into more than the sum of its parts, so even though there are some likable parts to the song, it just doesn't get off the ground imo. Pretty solid live cut, tho. 4/10 Alienation improved the most in my eyes. I thought it was very cheesy and skippable when the album was new, but I like it more now. Maybe I just got used to the word salad? It does drag a bit; for some reason I thought this track was like 9 minutes long but uh, it's barely even 5? It still registers in my head as the "epic" song from Shiny. Cool solo, good drums, I like the guitar tones... but the whole thing just drags a bit. The vocals have a couple really cool moments but make it drag badly in others. 5/10 Marchin' On is rad as hell. I love the vocals. Its a great shot of energy later on in the album. The last minute is my favorite part of the entire album. Great track. 8.5/10 With Sympathy would make my top 5 post-2000 songs. Reminds me of some of the softer, mid-tempo tracks on Machina, which is a good thing imo. I would take it over something like "Try Try Try" for sure. Really strong vocals, warm melodies and instrumentals. It succeeds quite easily at being the type of song its trying to be. 9/10 Seek and You Will Destroy is pretty fun, but underwhelming as a closer. Cool things going on with the timing in the chorus and outro. Doesn't explore its ideas fully enough to be truly memorable though. 6.5/10 I can sort of imagine an album that has these songs, plus Edin, Pentagrams, and Sighommi, being really good. Replace Solara with Sicarus or War Dreams of itself.... maybe get 999 or Goeth the Fall on there, maybe spruce up Travels a bit, and it being a damn good album. There have been plenty of times over the years where I revisit this and just listen to Silvery Sometimes and the last three and call it good. But it's brief enough that I can listen to it all without getting bored or turned off by any of the weak points. Last edited by LoveIsSuicide42 : 08-28-2024 at 05:46 PM. |
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#22 |
Apocalyptic Poster
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: up on the cross you go little fella
Posts: 2,724
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![]() Always felt like a bunch of strangers trying to learn to work together again. In a weird way, I appreciate how rough it feels.
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#23 |
Minion of Satan
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: An oasis of horror in a desert of boredom
Posts: 8,167
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![]() As soon as it opened with big willie blowing bubbles in the bathtub WOOOB OOOO WOOB WOOB WOOOOOOO i knew it would be one of my favorite albums of all time
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#24 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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Posts: 2,685
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![]() Album was proof to me the band needs to work with an outside producer out of Howard. Admittedly, the super brickwalled sound Rubin does on his albums now remains awful, but Rubin (a notoriously hands-off producer) still managed to make this the album that has the most moments that conjure up old Smashing Pumpkins.
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#25 |
Immortal
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Posts: 25,755
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![]() With Sympathy is the only real keeper (and I think Jimmy co-wrote it?)
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#26 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
![]() Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 32,900
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#27 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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Posts: 1,924
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![]() Listened to.it.yesterday.
Maltas billy singsang is horrid. Travels is ok Silverty top I like marching on a lot and with sympathy. All in all it sounded so "thin" compared.to.old albums. |
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#28 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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Posts: 4,240
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![]() Solara is better than this forum gives it credit for.
Tbh after hearing how richer SP2.0 sounds with decent headphones and a hi-res audio file versus low-res Spotify audio on tinny iMac speakers - I’m having a honeymoon period. |
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