New Song Feb 14 - Sojourner

[TheAlter]

Originally Posted by absof

He mentioned something at the beginning of this episode about not being able to do multiple takes or lack of budget (wasn’t paying super-close attention). He also mentioned some recording technique that sounded like a kid doing something in their laptop.

Maybe that’s the reason for a lot of this - there’s no major label backing him. He’s cobbling together whatever he can, using recording techniques he thinks are hip/relevant. I’d assume JC/JI probably aren’t into working for peanuts so that could explain their scarcity in the songs.

Dude owns Pumpkinland II in Northbrook, IL "a gearhead’s dream of a private studio in Chicago, with equipment from Motown studios and the kind of mixing boards used by Pink Floyd and the Beatles." There's literally nothing preventing him from recording another gem of an album.

[MyKeyZ]

[houseofglass11]

Originally Posted by paranoid

reminds me of stellar, with jimmy's groove and the overall vibe of the tune. I like it.

It's funny how some of the fans here are still "we're just trying to help" as if you know any better than the guy making the music himself. I've seen some god awful shit said about the guy on this page, you say same shit to another fan and their feelings are just as hurt recieving those words (see my recent row with house of glass). It's bullying. it's entitlement. It is creepy stalkerish obsession (remember the kid breaking into the zeitgeist rehearsals?), and i'm reading a collective denial that any of this ever happened.

I mean you've currently got guys here in bad bands telling billy and jimmy chamberlin how they should and shouldn't be making their music. At the end of the day, they still made 5 great records before hitting their early 30's and you didn't. Talk about cognitive dissonance. just stop listening if you hate it this much. might make you happier people.

It’s ironic to see you of all people virtue signaling like this. You’ve done plenty of bullying here yourself bud.

[phang]

Originally Posted by dustrocck

maybe he should come up with some better material, stop making promises he can't fulfill, etc.

I really love Corgan making this ad hominem argument that Netphoria collectively is a bunch of gatekeepers, rather than arguing the actual points.

- your songs suck
- nobody likes your vibrato
- the mixing sucks
- stop promising things like Machina and not delivering
- don't promise a rock opera sequel to MCIS and Machina and then give us more Cyr

His eternal problem is that he seems to need the spotlight and adulation, despite claiming it's all a sham.

If Zeitgeist or Teargarden or Oceania or Monuments to an Eyeroll or Shiny Vol 1 No Blood No Foul or Cyst were in any way popular or critically acclaimed, maybe he'd have a point about Netphoria being stuck in the pass.

But, Sad Machines fandom aside, the general consensus is that this is clown music, Bozo, sorry.

[jimmy drevpile]

Originally Posted by paranoid

reminds me of stellar, with jimmy's groove and the overall vibe of the tune. I like it...

Yeah. I like the structure and some of the textures. I think like whatever the last track was on 2, the Zwan-esque one, I just would have liked to to push a little bit harder /.do a little more. But I get it. It's a cool track. I'll bit this one on repeat.

Guess their tastes have changed over the years, as have mine. Mostly gone in different directions, it seems,.but still there is stuff at the centre that can come back to.

I haven't listened to the podcast chat, but I do think that although the community in general can be overly critical of stuff it doesn't like - to the point of parody (I've done it) - but that there are a bunch of diverse opinions and not all agreeing on everything. There are some trolls and some toxic folks. Equally there are some great folks who, for example, work tirelessly to preserve the live legacy of the band.

I'm glad that people can speak thier mind freely - be it really liking something or really hating it. We are all here because either once or now, we loved very dearly something about the band and we are either lucky enough to still find something to still like, or are still yearning for that void to be filled again...

That's good enough, isn't it?
Anyway
Happy fucking valentine's Netphroia x

[topleybird]

Honestly it kind of sucks that he reads the board. This is like a bunch of us gossiping about a coworker, at a bar after work, and it turns out that coworker has been following us there and listening from another booth. There's an expectation that we can say what we like without hurting the coworker's feelings, can share how we really think in a safe environment.

Like, I get that he's allowed to come here, just as the coworker can obviously come to the bar, but where can we go to safely discuss our opinions in a way that he's not going to read?

Of course being a celebrity gives this a whole other layer, and I get that, it's by no means a perfect analogy; if you're going to attack this, please attack the idea, not that. I will just summarize that I don't think it's a good/healthy idea, for him or us, for Billy to be reading this board.

[absof]

Just listened to some more of this ep on the way to work…

The way he described the reaction to A Stitch In Time - crucified in the first 5 hours so for anyone who hadn’t heard it, it was tainted already.
He then says he doesn’t watch the Grammy’s but heard some stuff about satanism online which gives him permission to rant about it for 10 mins.

These are tough listens.

[absof]

…follow up post.

I’ve never heard Dance Hall before. I dig it; especially the fiddle/bluegrass side.

[topleybird]

Also, the "Well why don't you write a better song?" argument is absolutely fucking moronic. Christ almighty. I've never shot a movie, but the idea that I can't watch Manos the Hands of Fate and say "that sucked" is preposterous. I can and do have opinions on art that I could not, myself, make. We fucking all do. That's how taking in entertainment works. By the "you can't criticize if you can't do it better" logic, I also can't say something is good if I couldn't do it myself. I'm not qualified to say. It's as fucking dog-dumb as "Well Avengers 6 made 500 billion dollars, it's objectively wrong to say it's bad." Fuck.

[houseofglass11]

Yeah I’ve never understood the idea that you have to do the thing to have the right to criticize the thing. The consensus from hundreds of ratings on rateyourmusic or album of the year from people who aren’t “negative Netphorians” is that this is getting the lowest ratings of his career.

[ilikeplanets]

Originally Posted by topleybird

Honestly it kind of sucks that he reads the board. This is like a bunch of us gossiping about a coworker, at a bar after work, and it turns out that coworker has been following us there and listening from another booth. There's an expectation that we can say what we like without hurting the coworker's feelings, can share how we really think in a safe environment.

Like, I get that he's allowed to come here, just as the coworker can obviously come to the bar, but where can we go to safely discuss our opinions in a way that he's not going to read?

Of course being a celebrity gives this a whole other layer, and I get that, it's by no means a perfect analogy; if you're going to attack this, please attack the idea, not that. I will just summarize that I don't think it's a good/healthy idea, for him or us, for Billy to be reading this board.

Would you have the self control to never check Netphoria? I would not, most would not

[Ram27]

Originally Posted by absof

Just listened to some more of this ep on the way to work…

The way he described the reaction to A Stitch In Time - crucified in the first 5 hours so for anyone who hadn’t heard it, it was tainted already.

this is fair -- i try to avoid any reactions on here before listening to the new stuff. the problem is it always unquestionably sucks so much quantifiable ass that i feel the same way anyway

[Ram27]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

Would you have the self control to never check Netphoria? I would not, most would not

i already don't lol

it is actually very trippy to process -- and i don't listen to the episodes because they give me a headache -- but

are we the whorl being vexed here

[TheAlter]

Y'all taking for granted it's Netphoria he's talking about but chances are he's flipping through the much more populated reddit downvoting comments like crazy.

[topleybird]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

Would you have the self control to never check Netphoria? I would not, most would not

I feel like any artist who says "I never read my own reviews" is lying, or is at best trying really really hard never to read their reviews but slipping sometimes. I do get it. And I don't really see a reasonable solution to having an online space to talk about a celebrity without them being able to read it. I just... it sucks, yeah? It just sucks is all.

[dustrocck]

I don't expect a 55 year old to be able to sing like he was when he was 25.

So if the Cyr/Atum vocals were simply the best he could do, I'd say "fine, he's getting old, rock is a young man's game if you're not David Bowie".

But Billy live can still do a pretty good version of most of the old stuff (and frankly, better than some of their live shows in the 90s). He can pull out the Machina vox in Marchin' On.

So it then seems like a stylistic choice to do his current vocals. And I think it's an extremely poor choice, especially from a guy who, let's face it, doesn't have a traditional rock voice.

I have to admit, I find the vocals unbearaborrible, and some of the somewhat-decent Atum tracks I'd probably listen to more if he changed the vocals.

On the other hand, I guess he could be like Bono, realize nobody likes their new stuff, and re-record their good songs except with his current not-as-good voice.

Anyway, I'll just go listen to the new Young Fathers.

[paranoid]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

It’s ironic to see you of all people virtue signaling like this. You’ve done plenty of bullying here yourself bud.

Yeah what’s your point?

[paranoid]

Originally Posted by topleybird

Also, the "Well why don't you write a better song?" argument is absolutely fucking moronic. Christ almighty. I've never shot a movie, but the idea that I can't watch Manos the Hands of Fate and say "that sucked" is preposterous. I can and do have opinions on art that I could not, myself, make. We fucking all do. That's how taking in entertainment works. By the "you can't criticize if you can't do it better" logic, I also can't say something is good if I couldn't do it myself. I'm not qualified to say. It's as fucking dog-dumb as "Well Avengers 6 made 500 billion dollars, it's objectively wrong to say it's bad." Fuck.

You can criticize it all you want. But if you’re a shitty drummer criticizing Jimmy’s drumming, for example, it makes you look stupid. But yes, it’s your right to look stupid.

There’s criticism then there’s critique coming from a place where someone straight up doesn’t know what they’re talking about, like they could do a better job. That’s the type of criticism I find annoying. But hey that’s just me.

[TheSultanOfCyr]

It’s my right to fart in public, dammit!

[TheAlter]

Fart cracklin in public, AMIRITE?

[ilikeplanets]

Originally Posted by topleybird

I feel like any artist who says "I never read my own reviews" is lying, or is at best trying really really hard never to read their reviews but slipping sometimes. I do get it. And I don't really see a reasonable solution to having an online space to talk about a celebrity without them being able to read it. I just... it sucks, yeah? It just sucks is all.

Net4iaCon 2023

[MyKeyZ]

Originally Posted by paranoid

You can criticize it all you want. But if you’re a shitty drummer criticizing Jimmy’s drumming, for example, it makes you look stupid. But yes, it’s your right to look stupid.

There’s criticism then there’s critique coming from a place where someone straight up doesn’t know what they’re talking about, like they could do a better job. That’s the type of criticism I find annoying. But hey that’s just me.

Except there is nothing great about Jimmy's drumming on Atum. The little that we get are pretty simple beats that were copy and pasted. Sure, tuey're simple beats played with competence because it is Jimmy. Jimmy is an amazing drummer. But none of what makes Jimmy unique or great appears on Atum. It may as well be a session drummer. This could literally be any other studio drummer.

[T&T]

why are we still discussing anything here?
haven't we done this ad nauseum? even I'm getting bored.


I'm convinced billy read me saying "TR/ST is a great band" and then decided that's where SP should go. yet he's not dialing in the synths right and it's just a failure.

Billy also says he's just a conduit for songs. it's not about HIM anymore anyways. so whatever. Even he doesn't want to play the cult of fame anymore. maybe the acoustic strummer songs is all that'll ever be left of him.

Maybe he's trying to revolutionize the idea "imagine making shitty music, but people think it's great" bla bla bla howard 's always just going to ruin everything. time to scrap the engineer and accept some criticism. or just go play with your kids.
"my 3 year old dances to it so it must be good" is a shitty measuring stick. I'm not interested.
NEXT.

[paranoid]

Originally Posted by MyKeyZ

Except there is nothing great about Jimmy's drumming on Atum. The little that we get are pretty simple beats that were copy and pasted. Sure, tuey're simple beats played with competence because it is Jimmy. Jimmy is an amazing drummer. But none of what makes Jimmy unique or great appears on Atum. It may as well be a session drummer. This could literally be any other studio drummer.

Wrong.

[MyKeyZ]

Originally Posted by absof

He mentioned something at the beginning of this episode about not being able to do multiple takes or lack of budget (wasn’t paying super-close attention). He also mentioned some recording technique that sounded like a kid doing something in their laptop.

Maybe that’s the reason for a lot of this - there’s no major label backing him. He’s cobbling together whatever he can, using recording techniques he thinks are hip/relevant. I’d assume JC/JI probably aren’t into working for peanuts so that could explain their scarcity in the songs.

Or he could stop wasting his time and money on writing and recording 33 songs and use that same amount of time and money on just 11 songs to make sure they're really good. Triple the effort on each song.

[T&T]

Originally Posted by MyKeyZ

Or he could stop wasting his time and money on writing and recording 33 songs and use that same amount of time and money on just 11 songs to make sure they're really good. Triple the effort on each song.

this way you can make your own great 11 song album TMbilly



I'm still waiting for my 11.

[MyKeyZ]

Originally Posted by paranoid

Wrong.

[Ram27]

remember that BC and JC share the same monkey disease now

[enthusaroo]

Originally Posted by Ram27

remember that BC and JC share the same monkey disease now

monkeypox?

[jimmy drevpile]

Originally Posted by MyKeyZ

Except there is nothing great about Jimmy's drumming on Atum. The little that we get are pretty simple beats that were copy and pasted. Sure, tuey're simple beats played with competence because it is Jimmy. Jimmy is an amazing drummer. But none of what makes Jimmy unique or great appears on Atum. It may as well be a session drummer. This could literally be any other studio drummer.

I am disappointed by a lot of what I hear on the record, I get where you are coming from. It's very on the grid and it's not, in parts, my bag. But to say that you don't recognise his style (or what makes him unique) at all seems to be a bit of an over exaggeration.

Your making this point in a thread about a song that is indicative of some of the most obvious JC tropes that make him so easily recognisable and distinctive - so I have to imagine you are just over stating.

AUTM, The Good in Good in Goodbye, Embracer, Steps in Time, Empires, Moss, Night Waves, Space Age, Beguiled, The Culling - each of these tracks for me have varying degrees of ellements that are obviously / distinctly JC. Is it slightly less bombastic and more refined. Yes.

But it wouldnt work playing the jungle drumming type stuff over some of these synthetic tracks, so there is a framework he is working in.

Anyway. I get why you are disappointed. This is not quite the "rock opera" that I imagined either and i definitely would like to hear some ott JC stuff that puts the parts at the front and centre.

But, in the same way we are not getting loads of guitars and blistering solos, we are not getting that from JC either.

Tldnr: It's far removed, but not so far as to tell it isn't him